[Red the Bear]

I meant Rashford

No worries just messing around

But to actually contribute im not so sure about giving Sancho a fixed spot in the starting 11 and even though you pointed that he works harder then our other forwards he still ranks far behind the likes of firmino

Sancho is having a bit of a horrid patch right now though hopefully he will turn it around but I'm not sure we could afford this current form of his while hoping he comes off well later in the season if we're serious about mounting a proper title challenge

 

[YeahYeah]

This doesnt look good so far. Dont see how he plays over Rashford or Greenwood.

 

[Lewnited]

We've just bought a playmaking winger, dunked him in to Rashfords position in the team, and expected him to operate as an inside forward in a similar style. It's like asking David Silva circa 2010 to get at defenders and run in behind. If we're going to persist with our current setup, we'd be better off having him alternate with Bruno centrally because at no point in the last 3 years has he shown himself to be a Rashford of style player.

My biggest concern of all here is that we have again managed to recruit a player that we have absolutely no idea how we want to utilise, as Castles' article posted above seems to corroborate.

 

[LoneStar]

I totally get fans who haven't seen him a lot (me included) getting it wrong about the type of player he is. But imagine spending 70M on a player you have been "scouting" for the last 2-3 years, and then having no clue how to play him in the team.

 

[Born2Lose]

Let's be honest it was pretty telling that no one else was interested in signing him, especially at a vastly reduced price this summer.

I hope he'll find another gear and embrace the challenge of fighting for his place but I do worry he might be another signing for the hipster hype dud eleven.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Still hoping to see him on the right, Rashford on the left, Greenwood down the middle.

 

[Marcus]

He is giving me Kagawa vibes at the moment. Can we please try playing him on the right which is what we bought him for? Sub him on for Mason.

 

[Erics_Collar]

There's a lot of talk about playing him on the right, though wasn't he at his most productive for Dortmund on the left?

Dortmund must love selling hipster favourites to the Premier League. They make a killing.

 

[DevTheRed]

He doesn’t suit the style of play at the moment. As others have said he is a playmaking winger, and at the moment we play counter attacking hoofball. If we played a system that suited him, be it a possession based system that pins back teams in their box I think he would shine.

I think Dan James would’ve had better games than Sancho in this system.. but obviously Sancho is the better player.

 

[Donut]

He would have been good in a cohesive team who plays a lot of give and goes like City, but he looks out of place for us.

 

[spiriticon]

We should have a massive sign on the motorway:

System players -----> that way to the Etihad
X-factor players-----> Welcome to Old Trafford

 

[Sarni]

As long as we play diametrically opposed football, the chances of this happening are quite high.

Well it's not like Kagawa and Mkhitaryan were amazing after leaving United. Kagawa was OK at Dortmund but not as good as before, Mkhitaryan was bad at Arsenal and has been fine at Roma but in a weaker league.

 

[Drizzle]

He is giving me Kagawa vibes at the moment.

Kagawa, Mkhitaryan, Van Der Beek, Sancho - we like buying technical system players as if that would make us into more of a technical team.

Sadly that comes from the coaching, not just importing random players from different setups.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

There's a lot of talk about playing him on the right, though wasn't he at his most productive for Dortmund on the left?

According to Transfermarkt, yes, but there's not much in it.

RW - 70 apps, 60 goal involvements (24 goals, 36 assists)
LW - 45 apps, 43 goal involvements (20 goals, 23 assists)

If/when he really gets going, then it'll be good to have a wide player who is equally as good on both sides for once.

 

[Kostov]

We should have a massive sign on the motorway:

System players -----> that way to the Etihad
X-factor players-----> Welcome to Old Trafford

More like:

Properly coached footballing team -----> that way to the Etihad
Bunch of footballers hoping Bruno or another guy turns up on the day -----> Welcome to Old Trafford.

 

[bosnian_red]

There's a lot of talk about playing him on the right, though wasn't he at his most productive for Dortmund on the left?

Dortmund must love selling hipster favourites to the Premier League. They make a killing.

Not much in it, but the benefit in Sancho isn't strictly about his productivity. When he's in full flow he'll help loads with build up and just making good decisions to keeping things going and progressing up the pitch, into the box and making smart passes. He's not a flashy player but a smart and very effective player. And most importantly, in a team where everyone loves being selfish and thinking about the shot first, he actually thinks about the pass first and is a creative player. On the right where we have Wan Bissaka behind him, that's a huge help, combined with him bring someone who likes to start quite wide before working his way in and linking up, it's something that'll help stretch the pitch for us (in time).

He needs time to settle and feel comfortable with that, but he's a class player and will be class for us. But likely the biggest benefit will come after Solskjaer.

 

[Zehner]

Not much in it, but the benefit in Sancho isn't strictly about his productivity. When he's in full flow he'll help loads with build up and just making good decisions to keeping things going and progressing up the pitch, into the box and making smart passes. He's not a flashy player but a smart and very effective player. And most importantly, in a team where everyone loves being selfish and thinking about the shot first, he actually thinks about the pass first and is a creative player. On the right where we have Wan Bissaka behind him, that's a huge help, combined with him bring someone who likes to start quite wide before working his way in and linking up, it's something that'll help stretch the pitch for us (in time).

He needs time to settle and feel comfortable with that, but he's a class player and will be class for us. But likely the biggest benefit will come after Solskjaer.

I agree with your description of the player but not the conclusion. The strengths you mentioned unfold best when he's played on the left. In the build up it is much more important to have the ball on your strong foot when drifting inside. Also worth mentioning that Sancho's time on the right was really him playing as an RAM in a 3-4-3 with Hakimi behind him - more or less the antithesis to Wan-Bissaka. Sancho doesn't work well in isolation.

 

[bosnian_red]

I agree with your description of the player but not the conclusion. The strengths you mentioned unfold best when he's played on the left. In the build up it is much more important to have the ball on your strong foot when drifting inside. Also worth mentioning that Sancho's time on the right was really him playing as an RAM in a 3-4-3 with Hakimi behind him - more or less the antithesis to Wan-Bissaka. Sancho doesn't work well in isolation.

Meh, I think there's this over obsession with inverted wingers and people overlook the value of a player staying on his stronger foot side. Naturally opens up the pitch, and I hope we see it here. When everyone drifts to the middle, it ends up being really hard to create anything. Sancho is a player who can have success in multiple different roles and systems IMO. While for Dortmund he liked to drift in the half spaces whatever side he played, he's also shown plenty of starting wide and moving with the ball effectively from either wing, even without Hakimi there on the right. He adjusted his game to play with Hakimi. On the left he'll naturally take more shots, but in a team with Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford/Greenwood, possibly Pogba... we don't need more shooters. We need creators. And on the right, he'll have a more natural tendency to look for the pass.

I'm also one who wants to see Greenwood on the left as well though, just to stretch the pitch and force some combinations out wide between Greenwood/Shaw and Sancho/Wan Bissaka, to leave space in the middle for Bruno/Ronaldo. We make it too hard for ourselves with everyone drifting in. Leads to forcing multiple give and go's and hard passes just to make a chance instead of having natural width where we can get in advanced positions and play passes across for easier goals.

 

[Kaos]

I think him and Donny have the same issue of being very talented players that shine in a well organised setup with a competent coach that knows how to use them. They're not the type of players you'd expect to conjure up the moments of individual brilliance we seem to solely rely on. With Ole's coaching style surmounting to essentially just telling his players "to give it a proper go" you're hardly going to get the best out of them. Someone like Adama Traore would have been more suited for a journeyman amateur coach like Ole than Jadon would.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Meh, I think there's this over obsession with inverted wingers and people overlook the value of a player staying on his stronger foot side. Naturally opens up the pitch, and I hope we see it here. When everyone drifts to the middle, it ends up being really hard to create anything. Sancho is a player who can have success in multiple different roles and systems IMO. While for Dortmund he liked to drift in the half spaces whatever side he played, he's also shown plenty of starting wide and moving with the ball effectively from either wing, even without Hakimi there on the right. He adjusted his game to play with Hakimi. On the left he'll naturally take more shots, but in a team with Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford/Greenwood, possibly Pogba... we don't need more shooters. We need creators. And on the right, he'll have a more natural tendency to look for the pass.

I'm also one who wants to see Greenwood on the left as well though, just to stretch the pitch and force some combinations out wide between Greenwood/Shaw and Sancho/Wan Bissaka, to leave space in the middle for Bruno/Ronaldo. We make it too hard for ourselves with everyone drifting in. Leads to forcing multiple give and go's and hard passes just to make a chance instead of having natural width where we can get in advanced positions and play passes across for easier goals.

Can you name which big teams currently play traditional wingers as opposed to inverted wingers? I can't think of any off the top of my head so this really shouldn't be an issue.

 

[stefan92]

Can you name which big teams currently play traditional wingers as opposed to inverted wingers? I can't think of any off the top of my head so this really shouldn't be an issue.

At the moment Bayern Munich with Sane on the left and Gnabry on the right. Not sure if their playing style is very traditional, but there is the left footed player on the left and the right footed on the right.

 

[Zehner]

Meh, I think there's this over obsession with inverted wingers and people overlook the value of a player staying on his stronger foot side. Naturally opens up the pitch, and I hope we see it here. When everyone drifts to the middle, it ends up being really hard to create anything. Sancho is a player who can have success in multiple different roles and systems IMO. While for Dortmund he liked to drift in the half spaces whatever side he played, he's also shown plenty of starting wide and moving with the ball effectively from either wing, even without Hakimi there on the right. He adjusted his game to play with Hakimi. On the left he'll naturally take more shots, but in a team with Bruno, Ronaldo, Rashford/Greenwood, possibly Pogba... we don't need more shooters. We need creators. And on the right, he'll have a more natural tendency to look for the pass.

I'm also one who wants to see Greenwood on the left as well though, just to stretch the pitch and force some combinations out wide between Greenwood/Shaw and Sancho/Wan Bissaka, to leave space in the middle for Bruno/Ronaldo. We make it too hard for ourselves with everyone drifting in. Leads to forcing multiple give and go's and hard passes just to make a chance instead of having natural width where we can get in advanced positions and play passes across for easier goals.

Whether or not there is an obsession with inverted wingers is a different question. There are a number of coaches who play traditional wingers again. Even guys like Guardiola, Nagelsmann or Flick. But with Sancho, you've brought in an inverted winger so it is kind of pointless to discuss if people are obsessed with them, isn't it? You won't find a player with similar play style to Sancho who operates with his strong foot outside. Those who do are usually pacey, physically strong and very straight forward in their decision making. Pretty much the opposite of Sancho.

And cutting inside simply is more effective if you have the strong foot on the inside. There are very few exceptions who usually have a very good outside of the boot technique or are two footed, like Quaresma or Gnabry but that's about it. That's not some hipster talk, it is very real. I mean, many top coaches these days even insist on a left footed LCB because it is better for the build up play. It's even more extreme with wingers. Dribbles inside, shielding the ball, one twos, progressive passes between the lines, shots on goal, switches of play, recycling possession in general is much easier with your strong foot on the inside.

Sancho's a LW who can play to a decent enough level on the right, too. But you've got better alternatives than him on the right, IMO.

 

[saivet]

At the moment Bayern Munich with Sane on the left and Gnabry on the right. Not sure if their playing style is very traditional, but there is the left footed player on the left and the right footed on the right.

Pep also does similar. Foden played LW against Liverpool with Gabriel Jesus at RW.

When he had Sane and Sterling, he often played Sane on the left and Sterling on the right.

Pep mixes it up but it's not uncommon for him to choose wingers that way.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Can you name which big teams currently play traditional wingers as opposed to inverted wingers? I can't think of any off the top of my head so this really shouldn't be an issue.

Traditional wingers don't really exist anymore, even when you see right footed winger on the right or vice versa on the left, they don't tend to stick to the by-line. Every big club who wants to win trophies is doing some variation of organised pressing + offensive possession football at the moment. The future of attacking football is players like Havertz, Foden, Mount, Greenwood, Silva, Sancho (no matter if you rate all or any of them)...agile, mobile, technical and tactically flexible attackers who will be able to play in a fluid front three. The next stage of this evolution is basically loads of Greenwood's coming through in a few years - both footed & physically gifted youngsters, probably all tee total and living like Ronaldo.

 

[Jeppers7]

Definitely needs a cohesive system to flourish. He’s a great player though

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

We should have a massive sign on the motorway:

System players -----> that way to the Etihad
X-factor players-----> Welcome to Old Trafford

I do think he’d benefit from playing in a clear system. To be fair, that’s the case with most players though.

 

[bosnian_red]

Can you name which big teams currently play traditional wingers as opposed to inverted wingers? I can't think of any off the top of my head so this really shouldn't be an issue.

Bayern the obvious, Pep at City have always done better with players on their stronger foot side rather than cutting in (Foden and Jesus, Sane and Sterling were both far better balance wise than it was with inverted wingers).

 

[SungSam7]

Bayern the obvious, Pep at City have always done better with players on their stronger foot side rather than cutting in (Foden and Jesus, Sane and Sterling were both far better balance wise than it was with inverted wingers).

Huh? Doesnt Sterling come in from the left alot, Marhez and Silva come from the right

 

[Sphaero]

If Sancho is not pulling his weight in training it is definitely an issue, sadly not a new one. He had times in Dortmund were there was also a heavy amount of doubt over his commitment and work rate. Sometimes seemed to be related to the role the managers saw him in, so maybe this is a (quite unprofessional) reaction to the way Solskjaer wants him to play, but he was also absolutely great during other times (and coaches...)

That is actually not quite correct. There have been issues about his discipline, but those were more about his habit for tardiness when it came to appointments, but regarding his actual work ethic in training, test matches and official matches every coach he played under had praise for him. He was usually a positive influence there and even took younger players under his wing at the end. Infact, when his mood and also form dropped a bit at the start of his last season it was his work rate that improved overall and he pulled himself out of his slump due to hard work.

 

[stefan92]

That is actually not quite correct. There have been issues about his discipline, but those were more about his habit for tardiness when it came to appointments, but regarding his actual work ethic in training, test matches and official matches every coach he played under had praise for him. He was usually a positive influence there and even took younger players under his wing at the end. Infact, when his mood and also form dropped a bit at the start of his last season it was his work rate that improved overall and he pulled himself out of his slump due to hard work.

Thank's for the correction, than I remembered the trouble he had at times a bit wrong.

And yes, I myself often wrote it here already, especially during his last season he evolved into a bit of a leader in Dortmund's team.

 

[lex talionis]

Sancho is a fantastic attacking player without question, but even if it meant paying an additional 30m for him the previous season we should have brought him in last summer...or not brought him in at all.

Greenwood is developing brilliantly at RW, and although he's not a traditional winger he has developed a outstanding game cutting in from the right side. And now he owns the RW doesn't he? Rashford owns the LW. Bruno owns the 10. Ronald owns the CF role, with Cavani as his backup. A bit of a predicament for Sancho, isn't it? Either Greenwood or Rashford will go out with injury, but 73m is a lot to spend for a squad man. But then again we spent 35m for a player the manager refuses to play.

But had we brought Sancho in last summer, admittedly at an additional 30m cost, he could have gotten settled in at RW, Greenwood developed at CF (his more natural position IMO) and we likely wouldn't have resigned Cavani, who will rarely play under Ole this season although we are paying him 250k/week as a squad man (and another 250k/week for another squad we're rarely going to use, Martial, albeit because his form has dropped off a cliff).

We'd still have taken the bait in bringing in Ronaldo either way, but Sancho would have been settled in by now -- and, we would have been that much more likely to win the EL trophy rather than losing the cup final. More speculation, of course, but it seems likely that with Sancho we would have made it through the CL group and after that who knows?

But here we are now, a shambles of a squad with too many attacking players who have no cohesion together whatsoever. Had Sancho had the experience of last season playing with Bruno and Pogba it's at least my thesis they'd be on the same page now.

 

[spiriticon]

Sancho is a fantastic attacking player without question, but even if it meant paying an additional 30m for him the previous season we should have brought him in last summer...or not brought him in at all.

Greenwood is developing brilliantly at RW, and although he's not a traditional winger he has developed a outstanding game cutting in from the right side. And now he owns the RW doesn't he? Rashford owns the LW. Bruno owns the 10. Ronald owns the CF role, with Cavani as his backup. A bit of a predicament for Sancho, isn't it? Either Greenwood or Rashford will go out with injury, but 73m is a lot to spend for a squad man. But then again we spent 35m for a player the manager refuses to play.

But had we brought Sancho in last summer, admittedly at an additional 30m cost, he could have gotten settled in at RW, Greenwood developed at CF (his more natural position IMO) and we likely wouldn't have resigned Cavani, who will rarely play under Ole this season although we are paying him 250k/week as a squad man (and another 250k/week for another squad we're rarely going to use, Martial, albeit because his form has dropped off a cliff).

We'd still have taken the bait in bringing in Ronaldo either way, but Sancho would have been settled in by now -- and, we would have been that much more likely to win the EL trophy rather than losing the cup final. More speculation, of course, but it seems likely that with Sancho we would have made it through the CL group and after that who knows?

But here we are now, a shambles of a squad with too many attacking players who have no cohesion together whatsoever. Had Sancho had the experience of last season playing with Bruno and Pogba it's at least my thesis they'd be on the same page now.

Naw I don't think so. Once Cavani leaves, Greenwood will get more chances in the centre which will leave more chances on the right for Sancho. In the long-term (i.e. when Ronaldo retires), Greenwood will be CF.

But, Sancho needs time to get used to the right. We can't be playing him from the left all this season, cutting inside, than suddenly shift him to the right where he is probably expected to work with AWB to provide more width.

It's a delicate situation which needs to be treaded carefully. We should split the RW duties between Greenwood and Sancho this year, depending on the needs of the game.

 

[Zehner]

Bayern the obvious, Pep at City have always done better with players on their stronger foot side rather than cutting in (Foden and Jesus, Sane and Sterling were both far better balance wise than it was with inverted wingers).

All those are totally different players to Sancho though. He's more like Bernardo Silva, Riyad Mahrez, Angel Di Maria, Neymar, Havertz, Fati, Isco, Hazard, etc. Gnabry is probably the only player who plays similarly and he is much more comfortable with his weak foot. Also one has to pay attention to the system. Guardiola almost always plays with touch line hugging wingers with inverted fullbacks, namely Cancelo and Zinchenko. He did the same at Bayern with Costa/Coman and Alaba/Lahm at times.

If you believe Sancho will fulfill his potential at RW, I believe you're in for a disappointment.

 

[RedDevil@84]

So we wait and wait and wait and finally manage to get a RW and now posters are saying he is not RW guy. So once again we get into the "what is his best position?" discussion. We have been doing that in Pogba thread for 5 years and VdB thread for more than a year.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

So we wait and wait and wait and finally manage to get a RW and now posters are saying he is not RW guy. So once again we get into the "what is his best position?" discussion. We have benn doing tht in Pogba thread for 5 years and VdB thread for more than a year.

No, that was being said when we were buying him ("I heard he's better on the left"). Now that we're playing him on the left, we aren't playing him in his best position. You can't win with this fanbase.

 

[bosnian_red]

Huh? Doesnt Sterling come in from the left alot, Marhez and Silva come from the right

Yeah Pep played with inverted wingers a bit and then normal wingers for a bit. They are a much better side when he uses players on their stronger foot side, like Sane on the left and Sterling RW in 2017/18, or Foden left and Jesus RW this season.

 

[spiriticon]

He's better on the left but unfortunately he's probably not better than Rashford or Martial on the left. Even if he was in form on the left, Ole would never drop Rashford if he's fit. This will lead to Sancho joining Donny on the bench soon enough if he can't adapt.

This is going to end in tears...sigh.

 

[bosnian_red]

All those are totally different players to Sancho though. He's more like Bernardo Silva, Riyad Mahrez, Angel Di Maria, Neymar, Havertz, Fati, Isco, Hazard, etc. Gnabry is probably the only player who plays similarly and he is much more comfortable with his weak foot. Also one has to pay attention to the system. Guardiola almost always plays with touch line hugging wingers with inverted fullbacks, namely Cancelo and Zinchenko. He did the same at Bayern with Costa/Coman and Alaba/Lahm at times.

If you believe Sancho will fulfill his potential at RW, I believe you're in for a disappointment.

Guess we'll have to wait and see. Imo Sancho will help us a lot playing from the right. Might have to be a change in manager until we do anything anyway though. But I strongly disagree with pretty much saying Sancho only worked on the RW with Hakimi behind him, he did well without Hakimi too and generally I think the biggest difference in his play from either wing would just be he takes on more shots from the left as he can cut in. We don't need shots from him though so I don't care about that. We'll see though.

 

[lex talionis]

Naw I don't think so. Once Cavani leaves, Greenwood will get more chances in the centre which will leave more chances on the right for Sancho. In the long-term (i.e. when Ronaldo retires), Greenwood will be CF.

But, Sancho needs time to get used to the right. We can't be playing him from the left all this season, cutting inside, than suddenly shift him to the right where he is probably expected to work with AWB to provide more width.

It's a delicate situation which needs to be treaded carefully. We should split the RW duties between Greenwood and Sancho this year, depending on the needs of the game.

Maybe, but as it stands right now Greenwood owns the RW and Ronaldo owns the CF for this season and next -- after which time Greenwood can be moved to CF. That's a long time for Sancho to wait to be given the role he was acquired for.

As for the 30m we saved in waiting a season to bring in Sancho, in hindsight that looks like an illusory saving. Had we brought in Sancho last season we very likely would have gone through in the CL to a later knockout round. No chance we would have caught City though. But more importantly, Sancho would be in full flight now and it could well be the case that with Greenwood having had 20-21 to develop at CF we would not have brought in Ronaldo, whose play has disrupted whatever it was Ole has been trying to accomplish. Ronaldo, a GOAT contender of course, has now become a pure poacher and the squad we've built isn't designed to work with a poacher. Whatever Ole has been thinking, and don't get me wrong he's in my dog house, his dream of fluid attacking play among our front five, but we've seen everything but fluid attacking play with Ronaldo at CF. All this could have been nipped at the bud and our attacking ideas allowed to flower (forgive the metaphors but I just had to) had we brought in Sancho last season.

 

[spiriticon]

Maybe, but as it stands right now Greenwood owns the RW and Ronaldo owns the CF for this season and next -- after which time Greenwood can be moved to CF. That's a long time for Sancho to wait to be given the role he was acquired for.

As for the 30m we saved in waiting a season to bring in Sancho, in hindsight that looks like an illusory saving. Had we brought in Sancho last season we very likely would have gone through in the CL to a later knockout round. No chance we would have caught City though. But more importantly, Sancho would be in full flight now and it could well be the case that with Greenwood having had 20-21 to develop at CF we would not have brought in Ronaldo, whose play has disrupted whatever it was Ole has been trying to accomplish. Ronaldo, a GOAT contender of course, has now become a pure poacher and the squad we've built isn't designed to work with a poacher. Whatever Ole has been thinking, and don't get me wrong he's in my dog house, his dream of fluid attacking play among our front five, but we've seen everything but fluid attacking play with Ronaldo at CF. All this could have been nipped at the bud and our attacking ideas allowed to flower (forgive the metaphors but I just had to) had we brought in Sancho last season.

Looking at Sancho now, it would have been more likely he was on the bench most of last season rather than help us in a meaningful way but that's all ifs and buts really. Think he's one that'll need a lot of time to adapt.

Also I don't think Greenwood owns the RW at all. He's great at cutting inside from scoring but the rest of his RW gameplay is still a little short. I still believe that Sancho can provide a different option at RW.

As for Ronaldo, I mean Ronaldo is Ronaldo. We didn't sign him to fill any gap in the team, we signed him because he is Ronaldo. I don't buy that we would have passed on Ronaldo this year had we signed Sancho last season. The timing of the Sancho signing and the Ronaldo signing is unrelated to each other.