25
Good post!I think there are three issues here :
- NGL, he is a bit overrated. He's a great talent, but all the generation talent thing was just fans going overboard. Right now he is not better than Greenwood, Rashford, Grealish, Sterling, Foden etc.
- People just expected a different player. Some thought he was an explosive touchline hugging winger, a Sadio Mane type, and that's just wrong.
- He is a top talent, I have no doubt about it. But he needs to adapt to the PL and our style of play. Bundesliga is just a notch or two below PL imo. I dont think he will ever be a 20G+20A player, probably more of a 10G+10A type player. But he's the type of player you cant just boil down to stats.
He might never end up being a 70M player, but that doesnt mean he is shit. People just need to adjust their expectations and give him some time.
Bailey is fast, Sancho is kind of slow.. Bailey’s style is much more suited to the Premier League with Villa’s counters and so on. Not comparing the two at all, but yeah, it would have been great if Sancho was a bit speedier to be honest. He’s not going to play Düsseldorf and Mainz or whatever they’re called in England.
I must say I had scepticism about doing this deal, which I voiced here throughout the summer. It just didn’t make the most amount of sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of the player, and he will probably come good eventually. But him coming good may come at the expense of others already here coming good.
I questioned the merit of signing a 21 year old ‘right winger’ to ‘compete’ with the 19 year old one we signed 6 months earlier. Not to mention the other teenager in Mason Greenwood who also plays on the right. But many said that he is already the finished article etc. I thought that after signing Amad for a not insignificant amount, we should be looking at a 27-31 year old RW if the issue was Amad not being ready. I saw no point in having 3 developing players competing for the right. And that’s even before the obvious question of whether Sancho is a right winger at all, which I maintain he is not. When Rashford returns, he will likely become the cameo player that Amad at 19 going on 20 should really be, while Amad himself will then ‘compete’ for heaven knows - back up to the back up. Just smacks of poor planning.
I think the team would have been better served spending 75m on Declan Rice, having Greenwood and Amad share the RW spot, and Cavani through the middle (I say Cavani as we didn’t have Ronaldo in our thinking when we signed Sancho). Sancho is not ready to come in and be amazing immediately. By the time we spend 18 months hoping he does, Amad at 20/21 could have probably become just as good with the same investment in time. Not to mention far better suited to actually playing RW. It’s one thing to say Amad isn’t ready and replace him with someone who is, and another to say he isn’t ready and then bring in an alternative who also requires time and development.
Spot on . Good postI think there are three issues here :
- NGL, he is a bit overrated. He's a great talent, but all the generation talent thing was just fans going overboard. Right now he is not better than Greenwood, Rashford, Grealish, Sterling, Foden etc.
- People just expected a different player. Some thought he was an explosive touchline hugging winger, a Sadio Mane type, and that's just wrong.
- He is a top talent, I have no doubt about it. But he needs to adapt to the PL and our style of play. Bundesliga is just a notch or two below PL imo. I dont think he will ever be a 20G+20A player, probably more of a 10G+10A type player. But he's the type of player you cant just boil down to stats.
He might never end up being a 70M player, but that doesnt mean he is shit. People just need to adjust their expectations and give him some time.
He played under Peter Bosz and the great Lucian FavreHe came from a team that was extremely well drilled, where players were moving off the ball, creating space for him, playing one twos etc. Our football is far more rudimentary. I think he will struggle until he hopefully adapts. I wouldn't be surprised if he does though, far too talented not to succeed.
Don't forget Edin Terzic' first and possibly only job as head coach.He played under Peter Bosz and the great Lucian Favre
I can confirm this is true because you sort of swayed me at the time. You mentioned Greenwood's emergence lessening the need for a RW and that we should focus on other areas. I think you also questioned whether Jadon will be such an upgrade as Mason was coming on nicely and showing he can score at this levelI must say I had scepticism about doing this deal, which I voiced here throughout the summer. It just didn’t make the most amount of sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of the player, and he will probably come good eventually. But him coming good may come at the expense of others already here coming good.
I questioned the merit of signing a 21 year old ‘right winger’ to ‘compete’ with the 19 year old one we signed 6 months earlier. Not to mention the other teenager in Mason Greenwood who also plays on the right. But many said that he is already the finished article etc. I thought that after signing Amad for a not insignificant amount, we should be looking at a 27-31 year old RW if the issue was Amad not being ready. I saw no point in having 3 developing players competing for the right. And that’s even before the obvious question of whether Sancho is a right winger at all, which I maintain he is not. When Rashford returns, he will likely become the cameo player that Amad at 19 going on 20 should really be, while Amad himself will then ‘compete’ for heaven knows - back up to the back up. Just smacks of poor planning.
I think the team would have been better served spending 75m on Declan Rice, having Greenwood and Amad share the RW spot, and Cavani through the middle (I say Cavani as we didn’t have Ronaldo in our thinking when we signed Sancho). Sancho is not ready to come in and be amazing immediately. By the time we spend 18 months hoping he does, Amad at 20/21 could have probably become just as good with the same investment in time. Not to mention far better suited to actually playing RW. It’s one thing to say Amad isn’t ready and replace him with someone who is, and another to say he isn’t ready and then bring in an alternative who also requires time and development.
People think Rashford returning will suddenly mean Sancho is forever benched but in reality Rashford will take a few weeks to gain match fitness and sharpness and this forum's ire/disappointment will be transferred to him instead.
If Bailey is playing better than Jadon Sancho, some things have to be questioned. He's better than Bailey in everything bar pace and maybe strength. His style should fit much, much better to top teams that dominate their opponents most of the time.
I agree with you and said the same at the time. Amad Diallo is a natural for that right side and should've been give the opportunity to grow into the role and we should've instead put the money towards signing a midfielder or two along with a CB.I must say I had scepticism about doing this deal, which I voiced here throughout the summer. It just didn’t make the most amount of sense to me. Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan of the player, and he will probably come good eventually. But him coming good may come at the expense of others already here coming good.
I questioned the merit of signing a 21 year old ‘right winger’ to ‘compete’ with the 19 year old one we signed 6 months earlier. Not to mention the other teenager in Mason Greenwood who also plays on the right. But many said that he is already the finished article etc. I thought that after signing Amad for a not insignificant amount, we should be looking at a 27-31 year old RW if the issue was Amad not being ready. I saw no point in having 3 developing players competing for the right. And that’s even before the obvious question of whether Sancho is a right winger at all, which I maintain he is not. When Rashford returns, he will likely become the cameo player that Amad at 19 going on 20 should really be, while Amad himself will then ‘compete’ for heaven knows - back up to the back up. Just smacks of poor planning.
I think the team would have been better served spending 75m on Declan Rice, having Greenwood and Amad share the RW spot, and Cavani through the middle (I say Cavani as we didn’t have Ronaldo in our thinking when we signed Sancho). Sancho is not ready to come in and be amazing immediately. By the time we spend 18 months hoping he does, Amad at 20/21 could have probably become just as good with the same investment in time. Not to mention far better suited to actually playing RW. It’s one thing to say Amad isn’t ready and replace him with someone who is, and another to say he isn’t ready and then bring in an alternative who also requires time and development.
Played a blinder by not selling a player for a higher price when they could have even though they knew he was a dud? Ya maybe try thinking before you type.He's not a 75 million player. The parts of his game he is meant to be good at turns out he's not very good at.
Looks like Dortmund have played a blinder.
Am I right in thinking he's a notoriously slow starter? So, it stands to reason that he's going to be even slower when having to get used to a new team, playing style and league, no? The way we play and the way Dortmund plays are worlds apart. As is the Bundesliga vs Premier League. He will come good I'm sure. But I still question why we bought him (much as I wanted him) when we had Greenwood and Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Diallo, and even Elanga that can play in his positions. Surely, a CDM should have been the priority, even more so if we are gonna play Pogba on the left-wing. We really are and were stacked. Midfield was far more important. But ultimately, Jadon will come good and be an important player for us I think.
No, he came from Dortmund. Complete myth that that side where well-drilled and playing fantastic football. They played direct, counter attacking football very much like us, but in a way weaker league.
Good post. Appreciated and agreeI love when people throw the term myth around only then to proceed to claim something that isn´t true either.
We have not been a counter attacking side for the vast majority of the time post Klopp. Being dangerous on the break does not make you a counter attacking side. Sancho spent most of his tenure in the first team under Lucien Favre, a coach that very clearly promoted patience and a possession and pass heavy approach, which is why Dortmund was under him in Europes highest group in terms of completed passes and amount of possession. It was not until Terzic took over that we turned towards a more reactive style (which has by now also been reverted under Rose).
Sanchos current struggles are a mixture of different factors: some of it comes down to running low on confidence, some of it is the transition to a more physical and faster paced (here less with the ball but against the ball) league, but the biggest one is the adaption towards a vastly different tactical setup.
Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United play very different brands of football.
For one, Dortmund is just a more offensive minded side in general. It pretty much always deploys more attack focused players than defensive ones, occasionally to their detriment as it favours scoring goals so much over preventing conceeding ones that poor conversion can lead to losses or draws that could be prevented otherwise.
The other different aspect that has been consistent for many years between Dortmund and United has been the amount and type of off the ball movement. This is very obvious to see when you watch both teams side by side and actually look what happens away from the ball. People always lament at the amount of space Bundesliga sides give to the opposition, but that is only half the truth as space is not only given but can also be taken.
Dortmunds FBs are constantly pushing high up, attempting runs behind the defensive lines, central midfielders interchange positons frequently and the entire offensive unit basically operates on positional fluidity, which is why they prefer offensive allrounders over clearcut wingers or CAMs. Sancho was very much a part of that which why IMO all these debates of left wing vs. right wing are pretty nonsensical as it would not be unusual for Sancho to switch between both sides and the center half a dozen times in a single game for Dortmund.
That type of fluidity has the primary focus to unsettle defenses by shaking up pairings, stretching lines and giving multiple options to pass and play at any given time. It has the obvious drawback that it needs a high level of coordination to prevent from losing its balance and not open up too much space between their own lines in the process. The moment their discipline drops a bit, their shape goes with it which is at best seen in their sometimes comically poor ability to manage larger leads and see them out over the time. It is an undoubtly risky approach to play.
Uniteds set up is far more traditional, stable and risk averse (some might argue too much so given the offensive firepower in the squad). There is a far bigger focus on positional discipline and keeping the shape of formation (the only player who really roams a lot is Paul Pogba) , which gives them a fair amount of balance and stability and with the right amount of intensity has the potential to really shut down opposition. It is on the other hand also fairly static sometimes downright rigid, with the biggest drawback of being very predictable, which has been consistent pretty much since the retirment of Ferguson and is in my eyes the biggest factor that holds United back despite the quality of the players as it results in an overreliance on individual brilliance.
This here is not a debate which team is "better drilled" or what approach is the superior one as both come with clear advantages and disadvantages. It showcases the stark differences in style, though, nearly two opposing ends of the spectrum, one being nearly chaotic vs. the other being very orderly.
What does that mean for Jadon Sancho? The kid needs time, plain and simple. He was brought up in one style and has now to adapt to a very different one and in a lot of situation he appears to be unsure how to move and behave. There are flashes of his sheer quality and talent shining through, though and he is actually too well rounded and skilled to not manage this transition. It might take a while and longer than many would like for him to truly click and gell with Uniteds system, though.
Good post.I love when people throw the term myth around only then to proceed to claim something that isn´t true either.
We have not been a counter attacking side for the vast majority of the time post Klopp. Being dangerous on the break does not make you a counter attacking side. Sancho spent most of his tenure in the first team under Lucien Favre, a coach that very clearly promoted patience and a possession and pass heavy approach, which is why Dortmund was under him in Europes highest group in terms of completed passes and amount of possession. It was not until Terzic took over that we turned towards a more reactive style (which has by now also been reverted under Rose).
Sanchos current struggles are a mixture of different factors: some of it comes down to running low on confidence, some of it is the transition to a more physical and faster paced (here less with the ball but against the ball) league, but the biggest one is the adaption towards a vastly different tactical setup.
Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United play very different brands of football.
For one, Dortmund is just a more offensive minded side in general. It pretty much always deploys more attack focused players than defensive ones, occasionally to their detriment as it favours scoring goals so much over preventing conceeding ones that poor conversion can lead to losses or draws that could be prevented otherwise.
The other different aspect that has been consistent for many years between Dortmund and United has been the amount and type of off the ball movement. This is very obvious to see when you watch both teams side by side and actually look what happens away from the ball. People always lament at the amount of space Bundesliga sides give to the opposition, but that is only half the truth as space is not only given but can also be taken.
Dortmunds FBs are constantly pushing high up, attempting runs behind the defensive lines, central midfielders interchange positons frequently and the entire offensive unit basically operates on positional fluidity, which is why they prefer offensive allrounders over clearcut wingers or CAMs. Sancho was very much a part of that which why IMO all these debates of left wing vs. right wing are pretty nonsensical as it would not be unusual for Sancho to switch between both sides and the center half a dozen times in a single game for Dortmund.
That type of fluidity has the primary focus to unsettle defenses by shaking up pairings, stretching lines and giving multiple options to pass and play at any given time. It has the obvious drawback that it needs a high level of coordination to prevent from losing its balance and not open up too much space between their own lines in the process. The moment their discipline drops a bit, their shape goes with it which is at best seen in their sometimes comically poor ability to manage larger leads and see them out over the time. It is an undoubtly risky approach to play.
Uniteds set up is far more traditional, stable and risk averse (some might argue too much so given the offensive firepower in the squad). There is a far bigger focus on positional discipline and keeping the shape of formation (the only player who really roams a lot is Paul Pogba) , which gives them a fair amount of balance and stability and with the right amount of intensity has the potential to really shut down opposition. It is on the other hand also fairly static sometimes downright rigid, with the biggest drawback of being very predictable, which has been consistent pretty much since the retirment of Ferguson and is in my eyes the biggest factor that holds United back despite the quality of the players as it results in an overreliance on individual brilliance.
This here is not a debate which team is "better drilled" or what approach is the superior one as both come with clear advantages and disadvantages. It showcases the stark differences in style, though, nearly two opposing ends of the spectrum, one being nearly chaotic vs. the other being very orderly.
What does that mean for Jadon Sancho? The kid needs time, plain and simple. He was brought up in one style and has now to adapt to a very different one and in a lot of situation he appears to be unsure how to move and behave. There are flashes of his sheer quality and talent shining through, though and he is actually too well rounded and skilled to not manage this transition. It might take a while and longer than many would like for him to truly click and gell with Uniteds system, though.
You clearly don't watch us if you think our fullbacks are risk averse. The amount of space you get when playing an English team is different, which is why you got shut down the last time you faced one.I love when people throw the term myth around only then to proceed to claim something that isn´t true either.
We have not been a counter attacking side for the vast majority of the time post Klopp. Being dangerous on the break does not make you a counter attacking side. Sancho spent most of his tenure in the first team under Lucien Favre, a coach that very clearly promoted patience and a possession and pass heavy approach, which is why Dortmund was under him in Europes highest group in terms of completed passes and amount of possession. It was not until Terzic took over that we turned towards a more reactive style (which has by now also been reverted under Rose).
Sanchos current struggles are a mixture of different factors: some of it comes down to running low on confidence, some of it is the transition to a more physical and faster paced (here less with the ball but against the ball) league, but the biggest one is the adaption towards a vastly different tactical setup.
Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United play very different brands of football.
For one, Dortmund is just a more offensive minded side in general. It pretty much always deploys more attack focused players than defensive ones, occasionally to their detriment as it favours scoring goals so much over preventing conceeding ones that poor conversion can lead to losses or draws that could be prevented otherwise.
The other different aspect that has been consistent for many years between Dortmund and United has been the amount and type of off the ball movement. This is very obvious to see when you watch both teams side by side and actually look what happens away from the ball. People always lament at the amount of space Bundesliga sides give to the opposition, but that is only half the truth as space is not only given but can also be taken.
Dortmunds FBs are constantly pushing high up, attempting runs behind the defensive lines, central midfielders interchange positons frequently and the entire offensive unit basically operates on positional fluidity, which is why they prefer offensive allrounders over clearcut wingers or CAMs. Sancho was very much a part of that which why IMO all these debates of left wing vs. right wing are pretty nonsensical as it would not be unusual for Sancho to switch between both sides and the center half a dozen times in a single game for Dortmund.
That type of fluidity has the primary focus to unsettle defenses by shaking up pairings, stretching lines and giving multiple options to pass and play at any given time. It has the obvious drawback that it needs a high level of coordination to prevent from losing its balance and not open up too much space between their own lines in the process. The moment their discipline drops a bit, their shape goes with it which is at best seen in their sometimes comically poor ability to manage larger leads and see them out over the time. It is an undoubtly risky approach to play.
Uniteds set up is far more traditional, stable and risk averse (some might argue too much so given the offensive firepower in the squad). There is a far bigger focus on positional discipline and keeping the shape of formation (the only player who really roams a lot is Paul Pogba) , which gives them a fair amount of balance and stability and with the right amount of intensity has the potential to really shut down opposition. It is on the other hand also fairly static sometimes downright rigid, with the biggest drawback of being very predictable, which has been consistent pretty much since the retirment of Ferguson and is in my eyes the biggest factor that holds United back despite the quality of the players as it results in an overreliance on individual brilliance.
This here is not a debate which team is "better drilled" or what approach is the superior one as both come with clear advantages and disadvantages. It showcases the stark differences in style, though, nearly two opposing ends of the spectrum, one being nearly chaotic vs. the other being very orderly.
What does that mean for Jadon Sancho? The kid needs time, plain and simple. He was brought up in one style and has now to adapt to a very different one and in a lot of situation he appears to be unsure how to move and behave. There are flashes of his sheer quality and talent shining through, though and he is actually too well rounded and skilled to not manage this transition. It might take a while and longer than many would like for him to truly click and gell with Uniteds system, though.
Uniteds set up is far more traditional, stable and risk averse (some might argue too much so given the offensive firepower in the squad). There is a far bigger focus on positional discipline and keeping the shape of formation (the only player who really roams a lot is Paul Pogba) , which gives them a fair amount of balance and stability and with the right amount of intensity has the potential to really shut down opposition. It is on the other hand also fairly static sometimes downright rigid, with the biggest drawback of being very predictable, which has been consistent pretty much since the retirment of Ferguson and is in my eyes the biggest factor that holds United back despite the quality of the players as it results in an overreliance on individual brilliance.
Good post, and I completely agree. To be fair, a few other posters have highlighted that a move to United would initially be tough for Sancho as our possession play is weak, and we rely more on pace, physicality and moments of brilliance rather than intricate football. But my thinking is that, eventually, whether under Ole (dont see it) or under someone else (hopefully soon), we have to become a more possession oriented team and having a 22/23 year old Sancho would still be a huge asset in that system (as he will be in this one, eventually).I love when people throw the term myth around only then to proceed to claim something that isn´t true either.
We have not been a counter attacking side for the vast majority of the time post Klopp. Being dangerous on the break does not make you a counter attacking side. Sancho spent most of his tenure in the first team under Lucien Favre, a coach that very clearly promoted patience and a possession and pass heavy approach, which is why Dortmund was under him in Europes highest group in terms of completed passes and amount of possession. It was not until Terzic took over that we turned towards a more reactive style (which has by now also been reverted under Rose).
Sanchos current struggles are a mixture of different factors: some of it comes down to running low on confidence, some of it is the transition to a more physical and faster paced (here less with the ball but against the ball) league, but the biggest one is the adaption towards a vastly different tactical setup.
Borussia Dortmund and Manchester United play very different brands of football.
For one, Dortmund is just a more offensive minded side in general. It pretty much always deploys more attack focused players than defensive ones, occasionally to their detriment as it favours scoring goals so much over preventing conceeding ones that poor conversion can lead to losses or draws that could be prevented otherwise.
The other different aspect that has been consistent for many years between Dortmund and United has been the amount and type of off the ball movement. This is very obvious to see when you watch both teams side by side and actually look what happens away from the ball. People always lament at the amount of space Bundesliga sides give to the opposition, but that is only half the truth as space is not only given but can also be taken.
Dortmunds FBs are constantly pushing high up, attempting runs behind the defensive lines, central midfielders interchange positons frequently and the entire offensive unit basically operates on positional fluidity, which is why they prefer offensive allrounders over clearcut wingers or CAMs. Sancho was very much a part of that which why IMO all these debates of left wing vs. right wing are pretty nonsensical as it would not be unusual for Sancho to switch between both sides and the center half a dozen times in a single game for Dortmund.
That type of fluidity has the primary focus to unsettle defenses by shaking up pairings, stretching lines and giving multiple options to pass and play at any given time. It has the obvious drawback that it needs a high level of coordination to prevent from losing its balance and not open up too much space between their own lines in the process. The moment their discipline drops a bit, their shape goes with it which is at best seen in their sometimes comically poor ability to manage larger leads and see them out over the time. It is an undoubtly risky approach to play.
Uniteds set up is far more traditional, stable and risk averse (some might argue too much so given the offensive firepower in the squad). There is a far bigger focus on positional discipline and keeping the shape of formation (the only player who really roams a lot is Paul Pogba) , which gives them a fair amount of balance and stability and with the right amount of intensity has the potential to really shut down opposition. It is on the other hand also fairly static sometimes downright rigid, with the biggest drawback of being very predictable, which has been consistent pretty much since the retirment of Ferguson and is in my eyes the biggest factor that holds United back despite the quality of the players as it results in an overreliance on individual brilliance.
This here is not a debate which team is "better drilled" or what approach is the superior one as both come with clear advantages and disadvantages. It showcases the stark differences in style, though, nearly two opposing ends of the spectrum, one being nearly chaotic vs. the other being very orderly.
What does that mean for Jadon Sancho? The kid needs time, plain and simple. He was brought up in one style and has now to adapt to a very different one and in a lot of situation he appears to be unsure how to move and behave. There are flashes of his sheer quality and talent shining through, though and he is actually too well rounded and skilled to not manage this transition. It might take a while and longer than many would like for him to truly click and gell with Uniteds system, though.
We don't have players of his profile at all, he's a playmaking winger, both Rashford and Greenwood are goal scorers more than anything. Amad is in a similar mould but we're not likely to see him in the first team until at least next season, if not longer.I think we do still need a dribbling winger, someone that can beat a man and stretch play. Rashford's okay at it for us but he's not a very technical dribbler, he runs into his man a lot. It'd help us a lot against teams that sit back against us, which is most of the teams in the league.
Most other top teams have a player like this - Mane, Grealish, Mbappe, Neymar, and Bayern have loads of them. Unfortunately I don't Sancho will ever be that player for us, he lacks explosiveness in his dribble. As such it does beg the question as you say why we spent so much on him when we already have similar profiles of players.
We don't have players of his profile at all, he's a playmaking winger, both Rashford and Greenwood are goal scorers more than anything. Amad is in a similar mould but we're not likely to see him in the first team until at least next season, if not longer.
Rashford when he's in top form can leave anyone for dead as well, he's a great dribbler when he's properly at it. Once Sancho settles, he'll be a huge asset to the goal scorers in the team.Exactly. Also Rashford is as explosive as any player out there, we don't have anyone with Sancho's profile.
Rashford when he's in top form can leave anyone for dead as well, he's a great dribbler when he's properly at it. Once Sancho settles, he'll be a huge asset to the goal scorers in the team.
