[bosnian_red]

This season Dortmund have scored 76 goals in 30 matches in the Bundesliga. Understat have their xG as 58.68

Last season (with Sancho) they scored 75 in 34 matches. xG was 68.95

The season before (with Sancho) they scored 84 in 34 matches. xG was 64.26

The season before that (with Sancho) they scored 81 in 34 matches. xG was 64.99

So Sancho gets sold by Dortmund yet their attacking stats have barely changed. Still another 4 games left including matches against Bayern Munich and the team at the bottom of the table, so perhaps they will look slightly different at the end of the season.

Not really a fair comparison to do in football imo. Never black and white like that. Remember, in 2011/12 we scored more goals and had the same amount of points compared to the following season when we added Van Persie. Nobody is doubting that Van Persie absolutely changed us, yet points and stats don't back that up.

 

[3KDré]

This, exactly. He’s not physical enough to be a Pep or especially Klopp player.

Mahrez is not a physical player either. Their managers make them physical. I'm not really worried about Sancho, under Ten Hag when the whole team is actually running and making space for each other he will look so much better. I think people forget, for a while we were creating the most chances in the league this season but could not finish our chances. During that time he was our best player.

 

[jem]

He obviously deserves another season but he’s been incredibly disappointing, especially when you consider the price tag and wages.

 

[Ali Dia]

Give him someone like Darwin to play off and watch those goals come from knock downs and cut ins onto his right into the corners. It’s the same thing as Rashford but a lot more refined in the buildup. He’s going to be a superstar.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Mahrez is not a physical player either. Their managers make them physical. I'm not really worried about Sancho, under Ten Hag when the whole team is actually running and making space for each other he will look so much better. I think people forget, for a while we were creating the most chances in the league this season but could not finish our chances. During that time he was our best player.

Will be interesting to see if ETH plays two playmakers in Bruno and Sancho. If not, who will he pick? I doubt we can accomodate both in the same system unless we have two energetic top class fullbacks who provide width and pace. We do not even have one.

 

[Marcus]

Why did we pay so much for Sancho to fill the gap on the right wing only for him to play on the left. Let him work with Dalot. At least they can be an attacking nuisance together.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

Don't you guys think it is a bit suspicuous that it's always United which ends up signing the Bundesliga frauds while many of the teams you chase are shaped by them? Maybe it's you, after all.

I mean Werner and Havertz have hardly reproduced their Bundesliga form so far ...

 

[AndySmith1990]

I don't think Rashford would look good at Dortmund. Nor do I think Dortmund was a gung ho side under Favre and Terzic. However, I do think Sancho was the best young player I've seen in the Bundesliga in my lifetime so far (bar maybe Götze and Wirtz now).

Don't you guys think it is a bit suspicuous that it's always United which ends up signing the Bundesliga frauds while many of the teams you chase are shaped by them? Maybe it's you, after all.

We don't sign "frauds" and it doesn't matter whether we sign players from Germany, Italy, Spain, England or wherever else. Almost every player we sign flops regardless of which league they come from because of how poorly run we are as a club and by extenstion how poorly we've been managed for so many years.

 

[M Bison]

We don't sign "frauds" and it doesn't matter whether we sign players from Germany, Italy, Spain, England or wherever else. Almost every player we sign flops regardless of which league they come from because of how poorly run we are as a club and by extenstion how poorly we've been managed for so many years.

I think thats the point he was making tbf!

 

[Bwuk]

Massive game for him tomorrow vs Trent

 

[Member 109952]

Not really a fair comparison to do in football imo. Never black and white like that. Remember, in 2011/12 we scored more goals and had the same amount of points compared to the following season when we added Van Persie. Nobody is doubting that Van Persie absolutely changed us, yet points and stats don't back that up.

I did the numbers a while back and Dortmund do score way more goals than the average PL team. In 19/20 it was double a team like Villa, who had 40 league goals and Dortmund 80, and in that too in 34 games. Point being Dortmund score a load of goals regardless of who's playing for them, you have to take that into context when signing attacking players from them.

 

[Steven-UK]

He obviously deserves another season but he’s been incredibly disappointing, especially when you consider the price tag and wages.

Very average, I'd say. Nowhere near as good as we all thought.

 

[Cassidy]

Very average, I'd say. Nowhere near as good as we all thought.

He will likely excel in a Ten Hag setup.
Our current setup suits individual style players and not team players like Sancho/VDB
Sancho isnt and never has been the type to beat 3 players on his own and lash one into the top corner

 

[bosnian_red]

He obviously deserves another season but he’s been incredibly disappointing, especially when you consider the price tag and wages.

Its been an impossible season for anyone to perform. He's a long term signing, and he'll be a key player for us long term, especially if we sort ourselves out. Until then... Kinda pointless to make any judgments? He's shown the talent anyway, he's a player where all the good parts of our play will naturally flow through him as we become more of a team. I have 0 doubt with Sancho under Ten Hag.

 

[Cassidy]

He obviously deserves another season but he’s been incredibly disappointing, especially when you consider the price tag and wages.

The whole team has been dissapointing though hasn’t it?

 

[Zehner]

I mean Werner and Havertz have hardly reproduced their Bundesliga form so far ...

Havertz is generally considered one of if not the best players of the EPL's third placed team if I'm not mistaken. And those are probably the only recent Bundesliga "fails" you could have mentioned who not moved to United.

Let's be honest, when it became clear Sancho - probably my favorite young player in the world - will move to United, I was hugely disappointed because the club is a career killer. To be clear, I consider Haaland to be significantly less talented than Sancho.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Give him someone like Darwin to play off and watch those goals come from knock downs and cut ins onto his right into the corners. It’s the same thing as Rashford but a lot more refined in the buildup. He’s going to be a superstar.

Think that is a bit of an absurd statement when you look at how he has been this season, in all honesty.

Sancho's form has been very concerning for the most part this season. However I think because of this people seem to be re-writing history with Martial. Martial isn't good enough, Sancho's bad form shouldn't discount that.

 

[Leftback99]

Too many excuses for him. He's been no better than if we'd played Martial on the left all season.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Shocker. Young player struggling and still adapting to the PL in their first season.

People ready to write him off already are embarrassing.

 

[Escobar]

He will come good and I hope he keeps his hunger, unlike other players we have who were talented

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Too many excuses for him. He's been no better than if we'd played Martial on the left all season.

The difference is Martial is 26, has been at the club 7 years and has had enough chances.

Sancho has only just turned 22 last month and it's his first season in the PL. Players take time to adapt to the league sometimes, especially when they are young. Not to mention the whole team is in disarray, losing a manager half way through the season and all of the players being dreadful, it isn't a great environment for any young player trying to adapt.

The difference is, playing Sancho over Martial gives Sancho a chance to adapt to the PL. Martial would just be another player with a bad attitude stinking up the place.

 

[RedRonaldo]

He scored 17 goals and assists in the league which is unprecedented. No Robben, Ribery, Müller, Lewandowski, Gnabry, Coman, de Bruyne, Özil, Haaland, Son, Aubameyang, Dembele or Reus was able to pull that off.

That’s abit of exaggeration. For example, De Bruyne scored 15 goals and 25 assists in his best season with Wolfsburg. Sancho had 19 goals 18 assists in his best season with Dortmund (league+Europe).

 

[AndySmith1990]

Salah and De Bryune hardly pulled up any trees at Chelsea, then they done well in other leagues and were brought back to the Premier league and slotted into highly functional teams that suited them, the rest is history.

Some people really do lack patience and an appreciation for how important the team aspect is in a team sport. If Ten Hag is able to replicate what he's done at Ajax when he joins us, I've no doubt Sancho will prove to be an important player. He's already shown his potential at Dortmund but for whatever reason people choose to write off that league as irrelevant, just because we've had a few players join us during a time when practically every player who joins United gets worse.

 

[Lynty]

I'm really happy with him.

Ball at his feet, he's dangerous. He just needs players around him to link up with. We were expecting him to come in and finish a promising frontline. Instead the rest of the attacking players have either regressed or been arrested - so we're back to square one.

 

[Tavern in the town]

I just don’t see what he’s actually good at. He isn’t quick, he doesn’t relentlessly run in behind like Sterling or Salah, his dribbling isn’t what we were led to believe it was, he hasn’t mastered the cut in curler, can’t beat his man from a standing start. Feel like he’s another Werner in that he looked much better in Germany whereas in reality he just isn’t that good.

 

[Zehner]

That’s abit of exaggeration. For example, De Bruyne scored 15 goals and 25 assists in his best season with Wolfsburg. Sancho had 19 goals 18 assists in his best season with Dortmund (league+Europe).

It's not an exaggeration. He's literally the only player to ever get 17/17 in the Bundesliga.

I also think that 34 g + a is a Bundesliga record if you leave strikers out. It gets even clearer if you consider how many minutes the players played.

Sancho (19/20): 17/17 in 2290
Ribery (11/12): 12/21 in 2386
De Bruyne (14/15): 10/21 in 3051
Müller (20/21): 11/21 in 2685
Nkunku (21/22, still going): 17/15 in 2398

So even if you say the Bundesliga stats are inflated, this doesn't explain why no other player in the Bundesliga managed to pull this off.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I just don’t see what he’s actually good at. He isn’t quick, he doesn’t relentlessly run in behind like Sterling or Salah, his dribbling isn’t what we were led to believe it was, he hasn’t mastered the cut in curler, can’t beat his man from a standing start. Feel like he’s another Werner in that he looked much better in Germany whereas in reality he just isn’t that good.

Just admit you have barely watched him play.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It's not an exaggeration. He's literally the only player to ever get 17/17 in the Bundesliga.

I also think that 34 g + a is a Bundesliga record if you leave strikers out. It gets even clearer if you consider how many minutes the players played.

Sancho (19/20): 17/17 in 2290
Ribery (11/12): 12/21 in 2386
De Bruyne (14/15): 10/21 in 3051
Müller (20/21): 11/21 in 2685
Nkunku (21/22, still going): 17/15 in 2398

So even if you say the Bundesliga stats are inflated, this doesn't explain why no other player in the Bundesliga managed to pull this off.

I get what you mean, but those other players (non-striker) you mentioned above are more or less at similar g + a output. Sure he is great player at Dortmund, but you are making it sound like no one come close of pulling that off.

 

[Red the Bear]

Really needs to keep it simple, doesn’t need to try dribbling everyone .
His lack of pace is a big letdown but I feel he can work around it.

 

[Beachryan]

Really think he would have benefitted most from a fit Rashford - he's always had a striker in front of him that stretched play. Ronnie's days of doing so are gone.

He's probably been our 4th best player this season (DDG/Ronaldo/Fred) so certainly not a major concern. Will be better next season guaranteed.

 

[Zehner]

I get what you mean, but those other players (non-striker) you mentioned above are more or less at similar g + a output. Sure he is great player at Dortmund, but you are making it sound like no one come close of pulling that off.

Isn't that actually the case? There has been no player who was that good at scoring and assisting in one season simultaenously. Apart from Nkunku the others are at least 5 or 6 poins behind him in one of the categories. Even those who have slightly less goals + assists combined achieved it by excelling in one of those statistics. Now it's probably fair to point out that it's not important how the scorers are distributed and it's superficial to look at it that way but when you actually look at it in detail, Sancho's season becomes even more impressive because he achieved this number in less time. You named e. g. de Bruyne but it took him 800 minutes more to finish on less goals + assists than Sancho. Even Nkunku who this season could beat Sancho's record has already played more minutes in the league.

 

[MadDogg]

It's not an exaggeration. He's literally the only player to ever get 17/17 in the Bundesliga.

I also think that 34 g + a is a Bundesliga record if you leave strikers out. It gets even clearer if you consider how many minutes the players played.

Sancho (19/20): 17/17 in 2290
Ribery (11/12): 12/21 in 2386
De Bruyne (14/15): 10/21 in 3051
Müller (20/21): 11/21 in 2685
Nkunku (21/22, still going): 17/15 in 2398

So even if you say the Bundesliga stats are inflated, this doesn't explain why no other player in the Bundesliga managed to pull this off.

If those stats are accurate, this is the minutes per goal or assist in the league:

Sancho (19/20): 67.35 minutes
Ribery (11/12): 72.3 minutes
De Bruyne (14/15): 98.42 minutes
Müller (20/21): 83.91 minutes
Nkunku (21/22): 74.94 minutes

So yes, Sancho's season was statistically the best. In fact, Sancho's second best season (12 goals, 18 assists in 18/19) was also better than De Bruyne's and Muller's, with a g/a every 82 minutes.

 

[bosnian_red]

I just don’t see what he’s actually good at. He isn’t quick, he doesn’t relentlessly run in behind like Sterling or Salah, his dribbling isn’t what we were led to believe it was, he hasn’t mastered the cut in curler, can’t beat his man from a standing start. Feel like he’s another Werner in that he looked much better in Germany whereas in reality he just isn’t that good.

He's a very smart player, makes very good decisions, has a very good eye for a pass, technically very good so will be excellent at linking up play, has really good movement to pick up pockets of space to play in, very good close control, he's good at moving with the ball, he's elite at creating chances and progressing the ball forward and progressing the ball into the box, he's a decent goal threat from the wings though that is a side benefit with him. Jadon Sancho is the sort of player who our attacks should flow through to get to that final touch, be it through his link up play or his ball carrying to get the ball into the final third or the box. He's a hard worker defensively as well.

Literally he just needs a team that has a defined system. Which is what United needs. He's shown plenty of flashes but it's been impossible for anyone to look remotely decent in this side.

 

[Zehner]

If those stats are accurate, this is the minutes per goal or assist in the league:

Sancho (19/20): 67.35 minutes
Ribery (11/12): 72.3 minutes
De Bruyne (14/15): 98.42 minutes
Müller (20/21): 83.91 minutes
Nkunku (21/22): 74.94 minutes

So yes, Sancho's season was statistically the best. In fact, Sancho's second best season (12 goals, 18 assists in 18/19) was also better than De Bruyne's and Muller's, with a g/a every 82 minutes.

To add further context, let's look at a few strikers:

Haaland (2021/22): 60 minutes per scorer
Haaland (2020/21): 68 minutes per scorer
Lewandowski (2020/21): 50 minutes per scorer
Lewandwski (2021/22): 74 minutes per scorer
Mbappe (2021/22): 69 minutes per scorer
Mbappe (2020/21): 70 minutes per scorer
Mbappe (2018/19): 55 minutes per scorer

So even strikers only beat these stats in absolute freak seasons

 

[united for life]

then he's probably not your type of player. I think he's shown what he is capable of for United already. But he's definitely more of a Pep, Klopp or Tuchel player.

I think people will rate him very highly if Ten Hag arrives. If not my hope is that you'll sell him.

so you’ve seen enough to say “yup, worth every penny”? I doubt anyone will say this at the moment. Probably/hopefully in a more functioning team with clearer tactics, he can show what he can do

 

[The Irish Connection]

Sancho will be better under Ten Hag but its a low bar.
Ten Hag will play him like he does Tadic I’d say. There should be plenty more over and underlapping runs from the full back and midfielders and Sancho is good at playing those runs in while moving himself.
Unfortunately, he’s another left winger and we still need a right sided one.

 

[Zehner]

so you’ve seen enough to say “yup, worth every penny”? I doubt anyone will say this at the moment. Probably/hopefully in a more functioning team with clearer tactics, he can show what he can do

I don't know if any footballer is worth that much money but in relation to transfers of a similar investment: Yes, absolutely worth every penny. I think if he reproduces his Dortmund form, he's the best player in the league alongside Salah, de Bruyne, etc. And I'm confident he'll be able to do so under Ten Hag.

 

[Frank White]

He's a very smart player, makes very good decisions, has a very good eye for a pass, technically very good so will be excellent at linking up play, has really good movement to pick up pockets of space to play in, very good close control, he's good at moving with the ball, he's elite at creating chances and progressing the ball forward and progressing the ball into the box, he's a decent goal threat from the wings though that is a side benefit with him. Jadon Sancho is the sort of player who our attacks should flow through to get to that final touch, be it through his link up play or his ball carrying to get the ball into the final third or the box. He's a hard worker defensively as well.

Literally he just needs a team that has a defined system. Which is what United needs. He's shown plenty of flashes but it's been impossible for anyone to look remotely decent in this side.

From start to finish you've described the exact opposite of the Man United Sancho.

 

[bosnian_red]

so you’ve seen enough to say “yup, worth every penny”? I doubt anyone will say this at the moment. Probably/hopefully in a more functioning team with clearer tactics, he can show what he can do

For sure have seen enough. Saw enough from his time at Dortmund and his flashes at United are enough for me to not be worried about him, provided we sort ourselves out from a coaching perspective.

 

[bosnian_red]

From start to finish you've described the exact opposite of the Man United Sancho.

Uh, not really. These are the attributes he possesses. When off form and lacking confidence, sure he won't show them as much or might be sloppy with them. But it's what he's always had and what's made him stand out despite his age.

I maintain that this season, this United team is virtually impossible to play in. Salah/de Bruyne/Van dijk, they'd all look like shit at United this season. It doesn't matter who we signed last summer, and their performance levels this season hardly mean anything for me in terms of going forward. Sancho is a player who has obvious talent and obvious huge qualities. And he's a player who if we sort out our coaching (hopefully with Ten Hag), he will thrive and be probably our best player where all of our play goes through him.

Its literally a wait and see scenario, I don't see the logic in anyone expecting magic and consistency in this side this season.