Oh god and he started that bullshit bingo again
Jadon Sancho | £72.9M fee agreed
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
- Status
H
He isnt wrong. The amoubt of space Sancho runs into over there is beyond ridculousOh god and he started that bullshit bingo again
I am no expert, I am just going by what I read. You replied to a post commenting on Mikhi, who was at United during Jose's term.
if you read anything about Jose, past it or not they are very organised.
Clearly shows your lack of basic understanding making stuff up about United's coaching.
Id argue we have been too organised since Sir Alex left. The rigid nature of our play killed my excitement over the years
I agree that seems very counter-intuitive. But maybe that's at least partly about things that don't translate directly to stats. They don't seem very similar physically, for example. I think of Sancho as an explosive player with a good burst of speed, which you'd never think about Mata. But other things, such as creativity and the ability to do smart things with the ball quickly and in congested areas, that seems to check.
Sancho is 178cm, 73kg. Mata is 170cm, 63kg.
Maybe "a stronger, faster, more explosive Mata" doesn't sound so bad, when I think about it.
Last edited:
Dammit, rookie error right there.
We have another player who's also similar to Mata and the club still can't let him go.
I just ran the numbers and he's a 100% match if you look at years 1989-2021
I know its the poster trying to say Bundelsiga has higher quality coaching, when if you look at the teams they keep getting done on the counter attack.
Bayern bully teams 4-0 on a regular but they are well organised
Your tone can get rather condescending. Claiming that United have a "difference in how they approach the coaching" compared to other clubs is pretty bold and I don't think that claim would really stand. You could maybe argue about Ole, but generalizing your point to a whole club is just asking for justified backlash.
It does of course not help if people don't know Lucien Favre's name
Sorry for that tongue in cheek bit. Anyway, that wasn't intended to be judgmental but United has only recently appointed their first director of football if I'm not mistaken. Up until now they still maintained a structure in which the position of the manager was responsible for coaching and squad management alike. The last manager like that in the Bundesliga was Felix Magath. German clubs usually want their coach to focus on the tactical/systemic/player development tasks and have a director of football to ensure longevity independent of the coaching personnel. To me, it's only logical to say that United has a different approach to coaching based on this.
Mate, you criticized me for not knowing what I'm talking about and then go on and ask what system Julian Favre played. What am I supposed to answer to that?
Yep, because I am no expert I asked what structure did Favre have?
Its not bad for an unorganised team to finish second in the PL whilst so called very organised, structurally sound Bundesliga team in Dortmund finish 3rd in their league, in a inferior league as well.
I’ve heard this a lot during last summer sega. On hindsight we didn’t land him last time, and went on to spend around 100m afterwards on several bench players:
- VDB 40m
- Diallo 25m + 15m
- Uruguay kid 10m
- Telles 17m
On hindsight again, maybe it’s better to just fork out 100m on Sancho instead.
Favre in Dortmund's most successful time with him played primarily a 3-4-2-1 with wing backs providing width and two number tens, one right sided and one left sided. Very fluid attacking play among the front three. He emphasized possession through positional play and had a rather passive defensive approach compared to many Bundesliga teams. Preferred possession turnovers in their own half so the team has space to attack inbehind. In chance creation, he preferred fewer shots with a high likelihood of conversion - no long shots, few crosses, etc. Likewise his last line of defense rather tried shutting down shooting lanes instead of actively challenging opponent attackers. He was one of the few coaches to beat xG models due to that.
Listen, I don't want to turn this into a United discussion. Personally, I see no attacking patterns or automatisms in your attack, it's mostly improvisation and individual class by your star players. To me that's not a sustainable approach and I think this also reflects in the xPTS table that has you finishing behind Chelsea and Liverpool. I don't think Sancho is a player that works well in such a team because he is hugely reliant on team play; more so than attackers like Rashford for instance who are physically superior and are incredibly hard to defend in one on ones. What you need is IMO not better players because the ones you have are already extremely good for the most part. What you need is a clear system and attacking patterns. Thinking Sancho will solve those issues is bad for both the player and the club.
Yes include yet to be paid add ons to further your point.
But to be fair VDB and Pellistri are perhaps two signings we didn't need to make. 50 million could have either gone to help funding Sancho or a starter in another area of the pitch. Amad and Telles were both good purchases. Telles purely for strengthening the squad and making Shaw become arguably the best LB in the league and Amad has already shown that he has an unreal level of potential and we had to get in there before anyone else.
Fair, however LVG was all about automatisms - to a fault if you ask me
Yes, he was. I think in general, Bayern should be very grateful to him because he was the one who gave the club a clear playing idea that they stuck with in general ever since (Kovac aside). But his system had its shortcomings, definitely.
Even without add ons we’ve already spend around 87m, if includes add on its could potentially go up to 107m. And that’s all our money spend during this COVID market since Sancho sega last summer. And that money could as well buy you a Sancho.
You are free to speculate how good they would become in future, but up to this point, they are all bench options for us with minimal impact/contribution. So, maybe to you 4 bench player with potential is better than 1 Sancho. But not for me.
Regarding Diallo, I think once we’ve bought Sancho, his game time will be further limited. I actually think he should go on a loan to develop his game for his own good, if we get Sancho this summer, as he would at best only be our 3rd choice RWF anyway (assume we sold James)
LWF
1. Rashford
2. Sancho
3. Pogba/Martial
FW
1. Cavani
2. Martial
3. Greenwood
RWF
1. Sancho
2. Greenwood
3. Diallo
Last edited:
All the deals above is with add ons and instalment payments. By all accounts Dortmund wanted huge cash upfront and did not want payment in instalments which is also very unusual. The deal Dortmund wanted last summer was totally unrealistic.
The players we bought last summer has increased competition in our squad. Shaw for example had his best season ever for us. Telles rotating with him might be a reason for that.
He isn't just a pundit with German and Norwegian sources. He is extremely well-connected especially in German, Norway and Austria.. He is also extremely fond of himself and loves seeing himself on tv and all that - but make no mistakes - he is well-connected.
He played 4 years in Austria, three seasons in Bundesliga, several seasons in the Premier League - he has worked in Sky Sports Germany with Lothar Mattheus. He worked for Viasat Norway who had the exclusive rights for Champions League so he interviewed a lot of players during those years. So he basically played at the highest level for 15 seasons and then worked in media in Germany for 15 seasons. He knows a LOT of people
Extremely fond of himself is an understatement... haha
I've never thought about another lad before as much as I have Sancho.
I'm scared.
I'm scared.
I can see there being big similarities between Sancho and Mata in data such as this, neither are lightening quick, play in the same areas, link well etc.
Doesn’t mean they are identical players, just a statistical anomaly on two players playing the same position with similarities to their game.
Doesn’t mean they are identical players, just a statistical anomaly on two players playing the same position with similarities to their game.
D-Von get the helicopter.
There is probably a bit of a misinterpration of this from some. Sancho do what Mata did, and that is why he get that score on the algorithm. But that does not necessarily go both ways. Sancho do what prime-Mata did, but do prime-Mata do everything Sancho do? Probably not!
Do do doo
Digressing, but we made a huge mistake by going for Mourinho after LvG when we really should have looked for someone in a similar mould to LvG. That is proving to be an awfully expensive (financially) mistake.
D-Von get the helicopter.
A Mata with pace is a good Mata
Yes, I was very hyped when you appointed van Gaal. Not because I thought he would transform you into a great squad again but because I assumed you wanted to implement some kind of long term philosophy. I think this would be what could finally bring you back into Europe's elite, not whether you sign player x or player y. As long as you don't have a clear philosophy, I don't think you will ever get the best out of any player in your team.
I've been wanking to this since end of season. Big day.
Mata's work rate, defensive contribution and athleticism? Hmm...
This transfer really feels like groundhog day doesnt it.
We start with interest, then an offer, then it's 'close', then a german reporter says no contact and nothing official, it all goes quiet again.
Romano pipes up with "it'll take a long time to get the deal done", followed by reports of us needing to pay more than we want to.. sigh.
I think the constant media coverage from clickbait twitter journalists doesn't help. Wake me up when it's done
We start with interest, then an offer, then it's 'close', then a german reporter says no contact and nothing official, it all goes quiet again.
Romano pipes up with "it'll take a long time to get the deal done", followed by reports of us needing to pay more than we want to.. sigh.
I think the constant media coverage from clickbait twitter journalists doesn't help. Wake me up when it's done
Those were both actually very high in his prime to be fair. He never shurked hard work.
Eh? Sancho isn’t fleecing anyone, it’s Dortmund who keep moving the goal posts
If that was the case, Mourinho would have never sold him.
Where's Mbappe on that list...terrible listI don't think its made up, however its yet another algo/stat thing that shouldn't be given too much importance to.
Here's another similar one
Mbappe isn't on the list because he only has 1 year left on his contract.
Tonight
Someone else will tweet there has been no contact between the clubs and the “news cycle” will continue. It’s most likely going to go all summer long trying to shave a few million off. The willingness of Dortmund to get a deal done this year means we can attempt to wear them down and I assume that’s what will happen. So so boring.
- Status