Jack Grealish | Man City
- Thread starter RDCR07
- Start date
This matches my feelings on him, but given I dont watch City week in, week out I wondered if I was missing something...
There's a few reasons why.
1, the three seasons since Grealish signed for Man City, they won the league in all three seasons. They also won the champions league with Grealish starting the final. That kinda wild success silences most criticism that would be thrown at a clubs spending.
2, 100 million isn't as big a deal for Man City as it is for Man United.
3, Man United get way, way more coverage than Man City in England and all around the world. That goes for criticism as well as praise.
4, Grealish hasn't been anywhere near as bad as Antony.
Good post
I know it's a wild thought to entertain, but Grealish has had 2 seasons at City that are close to Antony's here at United. First one very similar with minutes and output (3+3 vs 4+2). It's balanced out by one "good" Grealish season with 5 goals and 10 assists (the treble season).
It's probably wishful thinking, but imagine if Amorim gets some end product out of Antony. The comparison might not be that wild after all.
That's output wise though. It's a bit easier on the eye to watch Grealish receive the ball, drag a few meters in and pass it on in a system where that is what you do, than it is to watch Antony try a lot and not progressing play fast.
Part of it is coaching, but I think another part is just confidence, mentality and hierarchy.
No one would mind if he gave the ball away at Villa, because he was top dog and a bit of risk in transition was fine anyway.
City as a team are more risk averse, but also it matters where you are in the hierarchy if you up the risk. No one minds if De Bruyne loses it, because he does amazing stuff on the regular. If Grealish starts giving it away too much because he wants to show he's billy big bollocks, that doesn't go down the same way, with crowd and team mates alike. And I think Grealish never managed to navigate that and ended up just playing within himself and settling for "at least I did what the manager asked in the tactics meeting."
One thing I liked about Klopp was that he, like Ferguson, absolutely adored forwards and the plan was all about giving them opportunities to do their thing. Midfielders had to STFU, work hard and stay in their lane, so that the forwards could strut their stuff. Polar opposite of Guardiola in that way. Grealish would have been coached very differently under Klopp or Ferguson.
No one would mind if he gave the ball away at Villa, because he was top dog and a bit of risk in transition was fine anyway.
City as a team are more risk averse, but also it matters where you are in the hierarchy if you up the risk. No one minds if De Bruyne loses it, because he does amazing stuff on the regular. If Grealish starts giving it away too much because he wants to show he's billy big bollocks, that doesn't go down the same way, with crowd and team mates alike. And I think Grealish never managed to navigate that and ended up just playing within himself and settling for "at least I did what the manager asked in the tactics meeting."
One thing I liked about Klopp was that he, like Ferguson, absolutely adored forwards and the plan was all about giving them opportunities to do their thing. Midfielders had to STFU, work hard and stay in their lane, so that the forwards could strut their stuff. Polar opposite of Guardiola in that way. Grealish would have been coached very differently under Klopp or Ferguson.
You don’t even have to look back that far, Grealish trusted in the middle as a number 10 under Carsley for England for those few games and he looked a different player altogether. City was a good move for his bank account and trophies but not for his game. Wasted talent.
Any chance you're looking at Grealish's numbers in the context of Villa as they are now and not what they were when he'd just dragged them kicking and screaming into the Premier League while being punched in the back of the head?
This is a good post, but I think it's tricky to judge Grealish for Villa by numbers, similar to how Cantona's effect can't really be boiled down to goals and assists.
It's a fair point, but I'd also argue that he was great for that one season at Villa where he shined against big opponents on matchday TV for everyone to see.
8 goals and 7 assists in the season before was quite decent too but many other players have done that too in a season without being touted as talismanic. (Semenyo last season for comparison 8goals 4 assists in 2000 minutes where Grealish did 8+7 in 3200 minutes of gametime).
But yeah you can't always put numbers on everything - he did seem to have a big impact when watching (mostly watched the big games myself, so there's also that). I just find it a bit intriguing that his output was never that big.
He looked great that season at Villa, and he had great calves and a flamboyant style with wannabe David Beckham-hair to match. Maybe he was just blown up to be a little bit more than he really was by fans and media, when he just had 1 outlier season? Hard to say where it had ended at Villa though. Coming to City did seem like he was contained in a bad way.
Has he contributed any better than Antony with us? He costed more than Antony though.
Honestly I do think Grealish was a phenomenal player for Villa in a way that the goal/assist numbers just don't capture. That side that came into the league had El Ghazi, Trezeguet, and Wesley as their attackers, as well as three keepers getting themselves dropped every other week. It was a shocking side that didn't have much business getting promoted in the first place. But Grealish was unusually consistent for a flair player and pretty much impossible to get the ball off for a good couple of years.
@Fortitude's yard gainer analogy is a good one - he took so much pressure off the back line and gave Villa a chance in games they had no right to be contending, which was practically all of them. There's only really two reasons Aston Villa are a Premier League side at all these days - shit tech and Jack Grealish.
See I agree with what @B20 said, but also, when you look closer, Grealish doesn't actually play particularly different at City than he did at Villa. The differences are almost entirely down to the tactical context he operates in and his role in it
Definitely. It was also the football he thrived in - football with loads of space and counter attacks. When having to show it in a major side who doesn't sit back and where he has to operate in tight spaces, he simply gets found out / falls short, because he doesn't have that much more to his game than having a good shot on him and being able to dribble on the counter. He looks a bit of a one-trick pony at City, where that one-trick doesn't come off.
Every player is just better with heaps of space in a side where everyone passes to you at the same time. City simply overpaid by a big margin imo. He's simply a guy who works better as a big fish in a small pond and I can understand the Zaha comparison. City could've bought so many better players in tight spaces for Pep's system. A system where highly techical and quick players like Mahrez and Foden are the ideal players.
I don't know how he'd fit in at United now, but I'm still a big fan of his and think he's been wasted a little at City.
Saw a stat there yesterday that Cantona got 10 goals, 10 assists 4 times out of 5 seasons with United, despite having a 8 month suspension in there. Only 4 players in the past 30 years have more seasons of 10 goals/10 assists+. So while I agree he was more than stats, he actually had quite good stats too.
Maybe a poor example then, fair enough!
Held up 3 fingers to show the Villa fans how many titles his club has cheated their way to since he joined them.
Perhaps he should have held up 9 fingers to show how many defeats they've had in the last 12 games.
Perhaps he should have held up 9 fingers to show how many defeats they've had in the last 12 games.
For 100 million he's really been poor. Won't be regretting the move as he won everything there but was obviously much better at Villa.
Jack Grealish hasn't scored a single goal in 369 days (ONE YEAR), and having played 46 games.
He was such a joy to watch at Villa. At City he's just been one of Pep's bots.
Hopefully gets a run in the middle when he is back at full fitness. Was terrific against Forest, the only good performance we have had in months
Unused sub
Pep has literally taken every bit of expressive ability out of his game and destroyed him. Imagine Cole Palmer had stayed at City, he'd have continued the constant cut back and lay off stuff he was doing whenever he got into a good position whilst at City.
Pep allows maybe three or four players licence the rest are basically turned into absolute robots there to assist the four players allowed to do anything.
Pep allows maybe three or four players licence the rest are basically turned into absolute robots there to assist the four players allowed to do anything.
Pure nonsense. Pep didn't do that to Mahrez, Foden, Doku, Savinho, Sane even fullbacks like Cancelo, Gvaridol etc.. Jacks cowardice with the ball is Jacks doing not Peps. The only thing Pep has done and its been stated thousands of times by everyone that's played under him, is demand his wingers hold their width until the ball is progressed to a certain position.
The idea that Pep is like "ah Savinho you can take defenders on, and try to make things happen. So can you Doku, fullbacks, you too. Foden go for it. KDB hit passes from wherever you want.
Not you though Jack, for no reason at all you're not allowed to have any freedom and have to constantly take the ball run backwards and shout for a foul." You really think that's tactical? An absolute myth posted by Grealish fanboys.
Jack is making a mess of Jacks career, no one else. He's a player we overpaid for by £50m based on an 18 month purple patch who has reverted to type. He's been benched now by Foden, Doku and Savinho who have all played in the same position with the same players and have shown more willingness to be creative. He's a solidly decent hardworker with no end product as he has been for 8 of the 9.5 years of his career.
He should never of gone to you in the first place, he’s won trophies though and earned a killing so he’d probably disagree.
Its weird cause everyone kinda new he wouldn't work as a winger at City and he couldn't play as a 10. We didn't use 10's when we played 433 when he arrived. Pep started him as an 8 in his first game vs Spurs and immediately abandoned that which I think was the original plan for him. As like an advanced 8/not quite a 10 beside KDB in front of Rodri. When we do play with a 10 he was always gonna be behind KDB and eventually Foden.
He's done well at times and is handy when we need pressing and energy but inevitably will never be a Pep winger.
Quality control
Why you even on here, that's so weird.
Couldn't care less what you think, I say what I see and I've zero interest in talking to you as I come here to talk to United fans. Honestly I'd rather drink bleach than post on Bluemoon, what the hell is wrong with you.
Please cut this out. Opposition fans have been welcome on this site since its inception. As long as they keep it respectful, that will always be the case.
If you disagree or do not wish to converse, the ignore function is there.
You're only interested in talking to people who agree with you and think like you? What an interesting life you must have.
What a lovely person you are... you'd fit right in on hostile sites full of aggressive edgelords like Bluemoon. You should try it.
You can say whatever you like, but its a public forum and you can be quoted, tough shit. The very purpose of a forum is discussion, if you don't like that maybe you shouldn't post in public forums.
You're a good guy
Nah I'm an opinionated asshole and I know it, but I post on the Caf when we win, so won't hide when we lose or are shit.
This place would be dead without opinionated assholes, I see no issue with that!
Funnily enough Bluemoon is exactly what the Caf would turn into if posters like you got what they wanted. Maybe you would actually fit in there, but there is plenty other echo-chambers around aswell if you put your mind to it
That's fair enough but I stand by what I say. I'm here to talk to United fans, I've no interest in debating with City fans I have to deal with that shite in work.
In this discussion I would never expect a city fan to go against Pep and his regime. So why should i have to deal with the backlash to my post from a completely biased entity. This is bloody Redcafe!
Then use the ignore function. This is an open forum and oppo fans who are respectful have always driven good, solid debate and banter. You're in the Football Forum, which is being used precisely for its function. If you seek partisan discussion, the United forum is for you. In this section of the site, the ignore function is your friend, but cut out that 'why are you here' rhetoric as that's got no place on redcafe, and never has done.