Jack Grealish | Man City

Hammondo said:
Exactly, not everyone can be the final pass on chances, there are good attacking players who benefit the team before that final pass. Though i think he's not good enough for city, he has his strengths.
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Yeah, I mean there's talk about how often he produces a hockey assist. However, considering how many touches City have before scoring and how much they play in and around the opposition box, it's also a strange argument. A hockey assist can be a simple one yard push of the ball with someone then dribbling three players, releasing it to another player who dribbles three more then scores a worldie. There's a guy who tried to compile a list of players with the most hockey-assists or pre-assists, and Grealish doesn't even stand-out all that much there:

He holds the ball up very well, but I also feel that he slows down City's game so much that he also often is a hindrance to an attacking play. He draws quite a few fouls. Other than that, his assist tally and goal tally are just average or below average, and considering how many goals City score and how dominant they are, how can you say that is good enough?
 
Hammondo said:
I hate that kind of argument. How many goals he scores is irrelevant, how many goals the team scores is what matters and having an individual score a lot of goals can be a sign of a problem.

They scored more goals the season before without a striker.
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Yeah, and then they went out and signed him

You aren't even arguing my point anymore

Btw, look at the winners of the CL in the last decade, and look at how they shared the goals...
 
redNATION said:
If he had a season like last season at Utd, he’d be given a new 300k per week 5 year contract, just shows the ruthless standards at City and other leading clubs, we entertain bums like Martial and Maguire for years and even reward them after a few decent games.
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Not really, he would have been crucified by the end of his first season, being labelled as a flop with creative stats from Sky to highlight how bad he is and how we overpaid for him.

We also would’ve called him shite if he produced the kind of seasons he did for City
 
Rossa said:
Yeah, I mean there's talk about how often he produces a hockey assist. However, considering how many touches City have before scoring and how much they play in and around the opposition box, it's also a strange argument. A hockey assist can be a simple one yard push of the ball with someone then dribbling three players, releasing it to another player who dribbles three more then scores a worldie. There's a guy who tried to compile a list of players with the most hockey-assists or pre-assists, and Grealish doesn't even stand-out all that much there:

He holds the ball up very well, but I also feel that he slows down City's game so much that he also often is a hindrance to an attacking play. He draws quite a few fouls. Other than that, his assist tally and goal tally are just average or below average, and considering how many goals City score and how dominant they are, how can you say that is good enough?
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Yea I think that's his biggest problem, he doesn't seem to play with the same flow, and I don't know what team he would suit. Definitely not us.
 
Fortitude said:
:eek: decent discussion broke out in here! What the hell happened!?

Nice to read @giorno @devaneios @tomaldinho1
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An actual discussion, praise be. I don't agree with much of what @giorno says re Grealish and Pep but it's interesting nonetheless.

I definitely disagree re Grealish not being able to dribble at lower block defences, that to me is actually his strong suit, the drop of the shoulder and shifting of the ball onto his right is his greatest 'skill', as United and many PL teams found out when he was at Villa. He's not very quick over distance but he's got a good burst, excellent close control and can create space for himself among the best of them. Plus he's a foul magnet. At Villa, the reason most on here thought we weren't in for him is his best role is basically replacing Bruno and at that time Rashford was considered undroppable. Realistically 10 or LW is where he'd play for any team.

Much of the discussion on Grealish probably comes down to the issue some fans have with modern football where 'flair' players get moulded into specific roles and wide players have to do huge amounts of work off the ball, which has only increased for City since signing Haaland. There's been good threads on here about the decline of great dribblers who actually take players on and use skills and that's something - hence my point on Doku being a different type of signing - that we have seen with Pep's teams. Sterling even did an interview about this where Pep basically told him to stop dribbling so much in order to be more efficient. It's all about risk aversion and efficiency of movements and energy in modern football. I guess in Pep's perfect world, you buy the most technically brilliant player you can for each role as you can trust them in a high possession and very technical style of play and they just have to suck up the fact their role is probably a bit more boring/robotic than they would ideally like.
 
giorno said:
Yeah, and then they went out and signed him

You aren't even arguing my point anymore

Btw, look at the winners of the CL in the last decade, and look at how they shared the goals...
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Yea but you don't know if it's a Pep signing, City signed him.

I didn't say a player with a lot of goals is always a bad thing, it just could be. Salah is a perfect example of a player with a lot of goals who always benefits the team, he's a Pep type way more.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I definitely disagree re Grealish not being able to dribble at lower block defences, that to me is actually his strong suit, the drop of the shoulder and shifting of the ball onto his right is his greatest 'skill'
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Which he does well enough to create space for himself for a pass/cross, but not well enough to actually beat the defender and disorganize the defence. Which is rather the point of dribbling in those areas

hence my point on Doku being a different type of signing - that we have seen with Pep's teams.
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Which, again, is factually wrong. Because when it comes down to it, he's the same type of player as Alexis Sanchez, Douglas Costa, Coman, Sane, Mahrez and Graelish - an elite dribbler. He's the type of player Guardiola considers indispensable and which his clubs have always signed for him.


I guess in Pep's perfect world, you buy the most technically brilliant player you can for each role as you can trust them in a high possession and very technical style of play and they just have to suck up the fact their role is probably a bit more boring/robotic than they would ideally like.
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In Pep's perfect world he's got Messi up top and nothing else really matters. And if it isn't Messi, it's Ribery and Robben in their primes
Hammondo said:
Yea but you don't know if it's a Pep signing, City signed him.
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Yeah, going out on a limb here, but the club that spent years moulding itself for Guardiola, finally got him and it worked, isn't going to go out and sign players against his wishes...
 
giorno said:
Which he does well enough to create space for himself for a pass/cross, but not well enough to actually beat the defender and disorganize the defence. Which is rather the point of dribbling in those areas


Which, again, is factually wrong. Because when it comes down to it, he's the same type of player as Alexis Sanchez, Douglas Costa, Coman, Sane, Mahrez and Graelish - an elite dribbler. He's the type of player Guardiola considers indispensable and which his clubs have always signed for him.



In Pep's perfect world he's got Messi up top and nothing else really matters. And if it isn't Messi, it's Ribery and Robben in their primes

Yeah, going out on a limb here, but the club that spent years moulding itself for Guardiola, finally got him and it worked, isn't going to go out and sign players against his wishes...
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You're ignoring what I said again and also lumping all players with good ball control into one group. Sanchez was nothing like Doku, Grealish doesn't belong in the same group as Mahrez, Sane, Coman either. You surely can admit - and I clarified this so early with you and you kept ignoring it - that the dribbler who takes risks and takes people on, isn't really something we've traditionally seen Pep want a player to do unless they are world class and it's worth the risk? Doku is not that.

Why are you jumping to extremes, why would a player be signed against Pep's wishes? If anything it's a tactical boon for Pep to have two very different styles of players competing for LW because it gives him more option to tweak and tinker. The point stands though that it's not a signing we associate with him.

I get you think you know a lot about Pep but this is wholly subjective, it's better for the forum if you want to actually debate, at least, if you don't start sentences saying things are 'factually wrong', especially when the comparison of players you pool together, in my opinion, shows a fair bit of misjudgment of player abilities and traits.
 
giorno said:
Which he does well enough to create space for himself for a pass/cross, but not well enough to actually beat the defender and disorganize the defence. Which is rather the point of dribbling in those areas


Which, again, is factually wrong. Because when it comes down to it, he's the same type of player as Alexis Sanchez, Douglas Costa, Coman, Sane, Mahrez and Graelish - an elite dribbler. He's the type of player Guardiola considers indispensable and which his clubs have always signed for him.



In Pep's perfect world he's got Messi up top and nothing else really matters. And if it isn't Messi, it's Ribery and Robben in their primes

Yeah, going out on a limb here, but the club that spent years moulding itself for Guardiola, finally got him and it worked, isn't going to go out and sign players against his wishes...
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Possibly right, but clubs are not foolish to just build for that manager, they plan beyond as it could end with him at any point, and there needs to be ways forward without. Also its financially very prudent, he didn't cost much and at the moment they could sell him for a fortune. They just need PSG to turn their head and huge profit that they can spend.
 
We are a far better team with him in it. It staggers me that so many refuse to see that.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
You're ignoring what I said again and also lumping all players with good ball control into one group.
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You are throwing skillset and actual ability into the same cauldron and then talking is if they're the same thing
Sanchez was nothing like Doku, Grealish doesn't belong in the same group as Mahrez, Sane, Coman either.
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They have differences, of course they do. They are different players. What they *all* have in common, and the reason why they were of interest to Guardiola's teams, regardless of varying levels of ability and playing style, is that they *all* were elite, high volume, high risk high reward dribblers. The same as Doku
You surely can admit - and I clarified this so early with you and you kept ignoring it - that the dribbler who takes risks and takes people on, isn't really something we've traditionally seen Pep want a player to do unless they are world class and it's worth the risk? Doku is not that.
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...how was Guardiola to know whether Doku was world class and worth the risk before playing him? Your argument now boils down to: "Doku isn't a traditional Pep player because he's not world class". Not "Doku is not a traditional Pep player because he's dribbler who takes a lot of risks".

We have traditionally seen Guardiola's teams rely heavily on big risk takers. Messi took a lot of risks. Ribery, Robben, took a lot of risks. De Bruyne, while not a dribbler, was given carte blanche to do whatever the feck he wanted on the pitch from day 1
If anything it's a tactical boon for Pep to have two very different styles of players competing for LW because it gives him more option to tweak and tinker. The point stands though that it's not a signing we associate with him.
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It's a signing YOU don't associate with Guardiola because for some reason you keep ignoring the actual transfer records of his clubs....
 
giorno said:
You are throwing skillset and actual ability into the same cauldron and then talking is if they're the same thing

They have differences, of course they do. They are different players. What they *all* have in common, and the reason why they were of interest to Guardiola's teams, regardless of varying levels of ability and playing style, is that they *all* were elite, high volume, high risk high reward dribblers. The same as Doku

...how was Guardiola to know whether Doku was world class and worth the risk before playing him? Your argument now boils down to: "Doku isn't a traditional Pep player because he's not world class". Not "Doku is not a traditional Pep player because he's dribbler who takes a lot of risks".

We have traditionally seen Guardiola's teams rely heavily on big risk takers. Messi took a lot of risks. Ribery, Robben, took a lot of risks. De Bruyne, while not a dribbler, was given carte blanche to do whatever the feck he wanted on the pitch from day 1

It's a signing YOU don't associate with Guardiola because for some reason you keep ignoring the actual transfer records of his clubs....
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I'm not but go ahead saying that if it helps whatever point you are trying to make. I have stated very clearly the difference between the highly technical guys who are world class dribblers but aren't really take on specilaists (D Silva, Iniesta etc. into which camp go players like Grealish, Foden and some of the names you mentioned like Alexis. This camp is who I most think of as being Pep players, then you can find the odd great player who can do both i.e. someone like Hazard or Sane because they have a very high top speed with the ball. Doku is more like ASM was, he's built, powerful and a direct runner who is very good at turning you if you get tight or simply going outside of you. Technically though, he's not close to those players, that is the big difference for me.

No idea what you're tyring to say re the world class thing, I never said that, go ahead again if you want to just make stuff up. The point was very simple - the higher risk dribblers who take people on haven't really been a feature of Pep's teams and those dribblers he does have have to adapt their game i.e Sterling (google his interview about Pep and dribbling), Sane there was a lot of talk about attitude and how he wasn't adapting to how Pep wanted him to play. If you join a Pep team as a wide player, you usually take on a very specific role.

Think we've been over the risk taking part of all the Michels influenced coaches - apologies if it was with another poster - but they allow risk in the final third. Doku is dribbling people in his own half.

Last sentence, no idea why you need to use caps. Clearly I don't associate the signing with him, hence why I am replying too you... I feel like your evidence is so scant. It's bascially, he liked Lewa and Messi was so good he had to accommodate him. In a long managerial career, that's not a huge amount of evidence. then you go and group together a load of players who are stylistically (regardless of ability) quite different and it looks very weak. TO ME.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
An actual discussion, praise be. I don't agree with much of what @giorno says re Grealish and Pep but it's interesting nonetheless.

I definitely disagree re Grealish not being able to dribble at lower block defences, that to me is actually his strong suit, the drop of the shoulder and shifting of the ball onto his right is his greatest 'skill', as United and many PL teams found out when he was at Villa. He's not very quick over distance but he's got a good burst, excellent close control and can create space for himself among the best of them. Plus he's a foul magnet. At Villa, the reason most on here thought we weren't in for him is his best role is basically replacing Bruno and at that time Rashford was considered undroppable. Realistically 10 or LW is where he'd play for any team.

Much of the discussion on Grealish probably comes down to the issue some fans have with modern football where 'flair' players get moulded into specific roles and wide players have to do huge amounts of work off the ball, which has only increased for City since signing Haaland. There's been good threads on here about the decline of great dribblers who actually take players on and use skills and that's something - hence my point on Doku being a different type of signing - that we have seen with Pep's teams. Sterling even did an interview about this where Pep basically told him to stop dribbling so much in order to be more efficient. It's all about risk aversion and efficiency of movements and energy in modern football. I guess in Pep's perfect world, you buy the most technically brilliant player you can for each role as you can trust them in a high possession and very technical style of play and they just have to suck up the fact their role is probably a bit more boring/robotic than they would ideally like.
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I hear your point, but I think there is an essential issue here which you probably could consider, and that's about the application of a players respective 'skillset'. Grealish is not having much of a season and there is a reason why pep brought in Doku. You don't buy someone for £100m and then buy someone else, and drop the £100m player, unless you spot deficiencies in his play and think you can do better.

Grealish at Villa played with more freedom, drove that team forward and dictated their play. I don't think he would be able to do that with the current Villa line-up, because they have better players and a manager who has a tactical plan for his team. Same at City, Grealish is finding it difficult to apply his game at the highest level. He actually now seems a little one-dimensional. Rashford is having a similar problem.

The best ball-carriers have always known how and when to apply their skills, for the benefit of their team... I'm not sure Grealish knows how to do this at City. Doku and Halaand are explosive players.. Grealish tends to slow the game down, but not in the way a Rodri does.. orJohn McGinn can at Villa, or a Maddison at Spurs, Ross Barkley at Luton.

Grealish should watch videos of Gazza. Or Ronaldhino. They both could dribble, drop-a shoulder and beat a man.. but they were more game-intelligent, knowing how to apply their skills set.
 
Hammondo said:
Possibly right, but clubs are not foolish to just build for that manager, they plan beyond as it could end with him at any point, and there needs to be ways forward without. Also its financially very prudent, he didn't cost much and at the moment they could sell him for a fortune. They just need PSG to turn their head and huge profit that they can spend.
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Sure. But if Guardiola rejected the signing, Haaland would not be at City right now. And he doesn't reject Haaland because he's not brain dead and recognizes the inherent value of having a striker who averages a goal a game
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I'm not but go ahead saying that if it helps whatever point you are trying to make. I have stated very clearly the difference between the highly technical guys who are world class dribblers but aren't really take on specilaists (D Silva, Iniesta etc. into which camp go players like Grealish, Foden and some of the names you mentioned like Alexis.
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I'm sorry, have you seen Iniesta play? How was he not a take on specialist? And Alexis? Signed from Udinese? Dribbling was quite literally the first thing you'd think about when talking about him in 2011. Graelish - he was signed off a season in which he 4 take on attempts per game and completed 2.5. Again, the first thing people thought of about Graelish in 2021 was his dribbling

This camp is who I most think of as being Pep players, then you can find the odd great player who can do both i.e. someone like Hazard or Sane because they have a very high top speed with the ball. Doku is more like ASM was, he's built, powerful and a direct runner who is very good at turning you if you get tight or simply going outside of you. Technically though, he's not close to those players, that is the big difference for me.
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Yeah, that much is clear. You think Doku is an unusual signing because he's not as good as the others. Your words, not mine.

City signed Doku in the hopes he could become a Sane/Hazard player. That he's(so far) failed is irrelevant to why they wanted him - which is the actual relevant criteria when determining whether he's a common or unusual signing for Guardiola

the higher risk dribblers who take people on haven't really been a feature of Pep's teams
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Are you for real?!?!?! What the feck was Messi???? Ribery? Robben? Hellooooooo?????

and those dribblers he does have have to adapt their game i.e Sterling (google his interview about Pep and dribbling), Sane there was a lot of talk about attitude and how he wasn't adapting to how Pep wanted him to play. If you join a Pep team as a wide player, you usually take on a very specific role.
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Yes, if he decides you're not quite good enough to be given free rein, he's gonna try and mould you into a square piece for a square hole

Think we've been over the risk taking part of all the Michels influenced coaches - apologies if it was with another poster - but they allow risk in the final third. Doku is dribbling people in his own half.
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He's one of the best dribblers in the world. Of course he dribbles people in his own half. So did Messi, and Robben, and Ribery, and Douglas Costa....
 
Jeffthered said:
I hear your point, but I think there is an essential issue here which you probably could consider, and that's about the application of a players respective 'skillset'. Grealish is not having much of a season and there is a reason why pep brought in Doku. You don't buy someone for £100m and then buy someone else, and drop the £100m player, unless you spot deficiencies in his play and think you can do better.

Grealish at Villa played with more freedom, drove that team forward and dictated their play. I don't think he would be able to do that with the current Villa line-up, because they have better players and a manager who has a tactical plan for his team. Same at City, Grealish is finding it difficult to apply his game at the highest level. He actually now seems a little one-dimensional. Rashford is having a similar problem.

The best ball-carriers have always known how and when to apply their skills, for the benefit of their team... I'm not sure Grealish knows how to do this at City. Doku and Halaand are explosive players.. Grealish tends to slow the game down, but not in the way a Rodri does.. orJohn McGinn can at Villa, or a Maddison at Spurs, Ross Barkley at Luton.

Grealish should watch videos of Gazza. Or Ronaldhino. They both could dribble, drop-a shoulder and beat a man.. but they were more game-intelligent, knowing how to apply their skills set.
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I do think there's a sense of him not being a 'system' player. I don't really like that term, but it's the best way to describe it and, probably, a big reason why many United fans wanted him here. He has moments of brilliance and can score some outrageous goals off that left hand side when coming infield.

You are correct re his time at Villa, i think there's a coaches voice episode on him during his time there, and he basically played the role Bruno plays for us which is near complete freedom. Grealish has the added skillset though of being able to take the ball on the turn or half turn and drive forwards which made him extremely valuable to Villa, that said, look at how wise reinvestment and a good manager have transformed that team into a genuine CL place challenger. I agree, I don't think Grealish would displace anyone currently in that team because he can't, in my opinion, play McGinn's role and Emery loves pace on the flanks.

Would be interesting to see him under a high pressing coach who was a lot more direct, it would have been really interesting to see him at United with the chaotic approach we've had to football which allows the more individual aspects of player's game to come through and loads of space in that 10 area.
 
Amar__ said:
Being good dribbler at smaller team has been easier for many players, simply because you are are not double teamed any time you want to dribble and there is far more space on the counter too.

Pep drilling dribbling out of someone is laughable, he was benched by players like Doku and Foden who are direct dribblers and often lose the ball because they are too direct, and yet Pep plays them these days ahead of him. Doku is statistically the best dribbler in the league, why would Pep drill that out of someone playing that same position? And why didn't the drill it out of Doku?
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Fair enough if you think that this is more on Grealish than Pep. I personally think the fact that Pep has only given Doku 2 starts in their last 6 games is an indication that he's currently not getting what he wants from him either (perhaps Doku is being too direct for his liking - we can only speculate).

However I disagree with your original point about how Grealish would only win United some extra fouls and turn us into a possession based team. Villa weren't a possession based team under Dean Smith.
 
giorno said:
I'm sorry, have you seen Iniesta play? How was he not a take on specialist? And Alexis? Signed from Udinese? Dribbling was quite literally the first thing you'd think about when talking about him in 2011. Graelish - he was signed off a season in which he 4 take on attempts per game and completed 2.5. Again, the first thing people thought of about Graelish in 2021 was his dribbling


Yeah, that much is clear. You think Doku is an unusual signing because he's not as good as the others. Your words, not mine.

City signed Doku in the hopes he could become a Sane/Hazard player. That he's(so far) failed is irrelevant to why they wanted him - which is the actual relevant criteria when determining whether he's a common or unusual signing for Guardiola


Are you for real?!?!?! What the feck was Messi???? Ribery? Robben? Hellooooooo?????


Yes, if he decides you're not quite good enough to be given free rein, he's gonna try and mould you into a square piece for a square hole


He's one of the best dribblers in the world. Of course he dribbles people in his own half. So did Messi, and Robben, and Ribery, and Douglas Costa....
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Just to be really clear because you are being so difficult:

Iniesta was a great dribbler, he was not in my opinion though, a similar player to the dribblers I would consider specialists at taking players on - someone like Doku, ASM, Hazard etc. He was basically an even better version of D Silva. Using another Silva, in the same way B Silva is a great dribbler, he's not a take on specialist like those names I mentioned above. Thank you for bringing up the take on stat, hopefully this will end this back and forth. Go and look at ASM's take ons compared to Grealish's, it's literally quadruple per game regardless of if you look at Villa or City. Go look at Hazard, guess what I am going to say....

You are being very odd with these replies. I said Doku is not as technically good as Hazard or Sane. Do you disagree with that?

Already explained this and you responded directly to it so, again, I ask why you are ignoring it. I said to you before, unless the player is world class. Do you think Messi, Ribery, Robben were world class? I do. Do you think Doku is world class? I don't.

My point was you don't associate a player dribbling someone in their own half with a Pep team because he is a Michels coach and all of those guys say it's about control and risk aversion until you get into attacking areas. Douglas Costa is actually a good example for your point, the issue with him is Pep used him across multiple roles and he was basically seen a tactical option who was elite at taking people on. I'd argue on him, he was actually better at taking people on than Ribery or Robben but that's not what Guardiola wants most of all, he wants efficiency and ball retention.
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Anyone else see Grealish returning to Champions League qualifying Villa for around £60million?
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Grealish is on wages that would destabilise Villa. The only time he’ll have a viable route back there is when he’s on his last legs and the mega money contracts are no longer on the table for him to sign.
 
They signed him thinking he was the new David Beckham. It was a marketing buy for city group branding.

But City aren’t United and Grealish certainly isn’t Beckham.
 
Why do refs buy his shit every time? A hand grazes his shirt, he falls down while looking at the ref, pleading, and the refs blows the whistle every time.

Cheating, diving cnut of a player.
 
Shane88 said:
Why do refs buy his shit every time? A hand grazes his shirt, he falls down while looking at the ref, pleading, and the refs blows the whistle every time.

Cheating, diving cnut of a player.
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Its just insane, he even goes down when continuing his run would be a far better option. Ive never seen a player so keen to go to ground and he has genuinely mastered falling it seems, as refs give everything to him. The contact that sends him over happens to almost every single player who dribbles, almost every single time. Brief, light contact with an arm or anything and he's gone.
 
Shane88 said:
Why do refs buy his shit every time? A hand grazes his shirt, he falls down while looking at the ref, pleading, and the refs blows the whistle every time.

Cheating, diving cnut of a player.
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It’s one of his biggest talents. Diving as soon as there’s any light contact.
Second only to his ability to carry and shield the ball very well.
 
That was Grealish’s best game for a while I thought. Pretty useful in big games for his ball retention.
 
Davie Moyes said:
Plays if his purpose in football seems to be winning fouls.
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He's an offensive pin. City can get the ball across to him and he'll hold it long enough that they can organize themselves and take the sting out the game

Again, it can't be emphasized enough how City come out worse in chaotic phases of play.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
That was Grealish’s best game for a while I thought. Pretty useful in big games for his ball retention.
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I think he looked special at villa but a bit meh at city, thet maybe big fish small pond, I didn’t think he did anything dangerous tonight other than win some fouls and corners
 
Nowhere near as fun as the Villa version, but there’s a reason Pep picks him in all big games.

Very good this evening
 
Grealish really is used like a chess piece at City. When the ball gets to him, it sticks, in turn allowing his teammates to recompose themselves or make off the ball runs that otherwise can't. Grealish either gets to where he wants or he is fouled, both outcomes ideal for City. So many times, he sets off and the marker is unable to make a clean tackle on him so it reaches an impasse that doesn't look like much, but if you look at all the things happening whilst Grealish just 'stands there,' you see that he is a really important piece for Pep in these big games, not only in getting his own team up the pitch in an orderly manner, but also in forcing the opposition to slow down.

Grealish is not the player he was at Villa with the unpredictability and freedom of expression, but it's very clear he's a go-to guy in the biggest games and is very important for City despite not looking flash or like he's doing much. He's a very difficult player to cater for - you can know exactly what he intends to do but still have a difficult time dispossessing him or preventing it from happening. Like Rice for Arsenal, he's not some all-action man justifying his fee with mind-boggling feats, but in terms of what the team requires of him, he's justifying his fee and that will be bourne out by how many of the biggest games he is picked for.
 
He's not as exciting as Villa but he never loses the ball. A pep player except for liking the booze and not always running like a maniac. He's a really good player and may well win the Euros of Southgate can not feck up.
 
Probably the best example of just how joyless Guardiola makes football. A youngish, exciting talent who was great to watch, reduced to a drone like ball carrier doing the same annoying function ad nauseum.

There have been, and will be , many more trophies, but at what cost? There won’t be too many highlight packages when he retires.
 
Such an odd player to rate. Clearly, he’s an important cog in their wheel but it looks like all he knows how to do is shuffle down the wing and win fouls.
 
Fortitude said:
Grealish really is used like a chess piece at City. When the ball gets to him, it sticks, in turn allowing his teammates to recompose themselves or make off the ball runs that otherwise can't. Grealish either gets to where he wants or he is fouled, both outcomes ideal for City. So many times, he sets off and the marker is unable to make a clean tackle on him so it reaches an impasse that doesn't look like much, but if you look at all the things happening whilst Grealish just 'stands there,' you see that he is a really important piece for Pep in these big games, not only in getting his own team up the pitch in an orderly manner, but also in forcing the opposition to slow down.

Grealish is not the player he was at Villa with the unpredictability and freedom of expression, but it's very clear he's a go-to guy in the biggest games and is very important for City despite not looking flash or like he's doing much. He's a very difficult player to cater for - you can know exactly what he intends to do but still have a difficult time dispossessing him or preventing it from happening. Like Rice for Arsenal, he's not some all-action man justifying his fee with mind-boggling feats, but in terms of what the team requires of him, he's justifying his fee and that will be bourne out by how many of the biggest games he is picked for.
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I agree with this.

People find it hard to rate him because he rarely scores a goal or makes an assist in comparison to Silva or De Bruyne.

However, I believe he was important in their hattrick of trophies last year because what he bought was an extra creator playing off the wing for the team trying to play in a poacher.

Grealish can pass, but his best attribute is that he can dribble very close to the ball at his feet.

What he does is he opens up the space for Man City by his close dribbling close to the opposition goal line and the touch line because if he gets past the defender he can make a pass directly back to someone like De Bruyne or Bernado Silva or even less frequently to Haaland from a dangerous angle - this is why there is so many fouls on him because someone has to press him because you can't let in a good creator in to open space.

In comparison on the other side was someone like Mahrez who is much more direct than someone like Grealish.

Grealish is a left sided creator (we saw this at Villa) that mostly gives space to City because someone of the opposition has to go directly up against him because you can't give him time to dribble and create his own space aswell as space for the other players of the same team.
 
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Maluco said:
Probably the best example of just how joyless Guardiola makes football. A youngish, exciting talent who was great to watch, reduced to a drone like ball carrier doing the same annoying function ad nauseum.

There have been, and will be , many more trophies, but at what cost? There won’t be too many highlight packages when he retires.
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Bang on the money.
 
Good posts, Guardiola really is teaching people about football if the takeaways here are that Grealish is a vital piece for City keeping the ball and slowing down the game and getting their team into position and also it's horrible to watch one of the most exciting players in the Premiership become a pretty damn boring one.

I think he finally got a bit angry and started wandering inside a bit more in the 2nd half to try to create something.
 
Effective or not, he’s awfully boring to watch.

Also, did it have to be a £100m player doing this job? Is his ball retention really that elite that you couldn’t achieve the same with another player given the same tactical instructions?
 
Mike Smalling said:
Effective or not, he’s awfully boring to watch.

Also, did it have to be a £100m player doing this job? Is his ball retention really that elite that you couldn’t achieve the same with another player given the same tactical instructions?
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He's flashy, he's the man for an England desperate to remember Beckham. He's not very good, his haircut is shit, and he won't pull his fecking socks up.
 
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