It's tough going - What side of the fence are you on

[Randall Flagg]

I can't work out if he is lucky or unlucky that he is being afforded so much patience.

He looks broken and has aged about 20 years in 6 months.

I am pleased the club aren't another Chelsea but then agin things look fecking bleak. If he has lost the players I am not sure he should continue.

 

[Castia]

Didn't want him before his appointment but decided to get behind him...he's been even worse than I was expecting and there's not a single indication of him turning this around, he's simply not up to the job. Why the hell he got the job in the first place I'll never know, there's not a top side in Europe who would have appointed him.

 

[Trigg]

He needs time and thats fine.

However, so far its been massively disappointing and he has to take most of the blame for that. The players too have to stop up but for me the book stops with the manager. If he manages to get through this really rough period and turns it around then he'll be loads better for it.

 

[africanspur]

There is a difference between doing worse than SAF (few points fewer would be ok) and leading a shit team like United of late.

There is of course and I'm not saying he's doing a good job. My point is that Ferguson leaving was a huge event, the man won over 50% of your club's trophies, rebuilt squad after squad and was probably the best manager ever. Replacing him, even for managers like Mourinho, Van Gaal etc, managers with a huge amount of experience at the top, was going to be hugely difficult. For a relative novice like Moyes even more so. The whole club is built around Ferguson.

That doesn't mean that Moyes will come good, I didn't think he was good enough for Man Utd (didn't even really want him for Spurs tbh) but now he's there, you have to give him at least 2 windows and a full season imo.

If he's lost the players, he needs to go however. Only those within the club will know however. And if the players have turned against him, you need to get Ferguson down to give them a complete bollocking because that would be incredibly shameful.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

The players look completely uninspired and disinterested and time won't fix that.

 

[SilentWitness]

Bad luck and poor decisions have hurt you this year. I don't think you can blame one single thing for your poorness this year as it has been a combination which have stunted you.

The Summer - Poor window which you failed to address problems which you've had before Moyes began at United. A new signing or two would have injected life into the side and could have improved your First XI more. Also, the one signing you did make hasn't put in the performance he's capable of but i could forgive him for that given that he isn't fully fit and is injured right now.

Injuries - You always seem to have an injury list but it's hurting the players you need most. Rafael is a big loss given that you don't have a replacement RB, RVP is the best in the league when on form and Rooney is a must have this season it seems. Add into that people like Carrick who is your best CM and it's going to be really tough for Moyes anyway.

Moyes - He has made some poor decisions at times but that is part of the experience. Martinez will make them with us at some stage, i'm sure of it, every manager will. He's under immense pressure so it's not surprising and it's a question of whether he will learn to cope with that pressure which hopefully for you he will.

Other teams - I don't think people would have envisioned how good Arsenal, Liverpool, Us, Newcastle, Southampton (who have gone a little off the boil) etc., would have been this year and this has made it a little tougher for you given the combination of other reasons above.

Players - Ferdinand, Evra etc are getting older and you can see they won't be able to start for much longer, but Moyes had no clue that they'd suddenly drop so much. Overall the performance of the team at times hasn't been good enough. There have been team-sheets which everyone has been pleased with on here and the players just haven't put in a performance expected of them.

That's my take as a neutral anyway.

 

[Godfather]

I keep seeing this "style of play" complaint getting bandied about. What did folk expect? He was Ferguson's choice, and therefore always going to be somebody who embodies the essence of what Ferguson did in a Manchester United side - robust football reliant on wingers raining balls into the box.

I don't think it was ever a prerequisite that the new manager would alter our style of play, and due to that, I find it a bizarre complaint.

It's not a bizarre complaint at all. Playing dinosaour tactics is not going to help us getting results. Fergie was great at it, but he wasnt he best tactician neither. He just got the best out of every player.
If this is the way Moyes really intends us to play then I want him gone. Immidiately. As this is not going to take us anywhere.
I'm sure he doesnt though. WHich is also concerning as he seemingly fails to make us better

 

[Elliott]

Still an easy decision for me; give him time. If there are no signs of the right wheels being in spin come summer, we'll talk again.

 

[An Irish Red]

He needs time and thats fine.

I'm convinced that he could turn us into Liverpool if he is here a few years.

 

[dogrob]

None really whilst David Moyes does have to take a proportion of the blame so do Alex Ferguson and the Glazers, this has been coming for a while now and as they usually say things have to get worse to get better.

 

[Magnus]

I´m behind Moyes. Kagawa have to leave to save his career, Buttner is not United-material, our best players for many seasons like Rio, Scholes, Giggs, Evra aso is retired or past it. RVP is injured most of the time these Days and not getting any younger. I don´t think Ferguson left Moyes with that good a squad. We need to build again and Moyes will do that given time and funds. Atleast that is what I hope

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Moyes has been left with awful midfield either ageing or unfulfilled potential, an ageing defence (Rio and Evra). Vidic and Rafael injury prone. RVP and Rooney picking up injuries. Then being lumbered with an idiot for a chief executive. If I was him, I would leave to preserve my own sanity. The poor guy has aged almost overnight and to be honest he looks ill. Sir Alex has maybe chosen Moyes and has done neither the club or Moyes any favours.

 

[Shane88]

Didn't want him before his appointment but decided to get behind him...he's been even worse than I was expecting and there's not a single indication of him turning this around, he's simply not up to the job. Why the hell he got the job in the first place I'll never know, there's not a top side in Europe who would have appointed him.

Exactly, why? Because he's Scottish? Because he's Fergie's friend? They must be close to the top of the list of reasons because if you look at his actual footballing achievements, you'll see that he shouldn't be even be considered for any kind of top job.

 

[Sunny Jim]

There is of course and I'm not saying he's doing a good job. My point is that Ferguson leaving was a huge event, the man won over 50% of your club's trophies, rebuilt squad after squad and was probably the best manager ever. Replacing him, even for managers like Mourinho, Van Gaal etc, managers with a huge amount of experience at the top, was going to be hugely difficult. For a relative novice like Moyes even more so. The whole club is built around Ferguson.

That doesn't mean that Moyes will come good, I didn't think he was good enough for Man Utd (didn't even really want him for Spurs tbh) but now he's there, you have to give him at least 2 windows and a full season imo.

But i do agree with you...its just semantics. I would give him antoher year so he can rebuild this team and deal with problems he has created.

But this season is a farce so far. Many posters here predicted.that certain problems would appear and they were right.

 

[Badunk]

I'll give him a lot more time.
I know results are important, but a few losses don't bother me.
The squad needed refreshing a few years back and Fergie worked wonders to get the performances out of them that he did.. Moyes needs a change..

He needed a bedding in period anyway. He's not getting any luck either.
Win-loss.. its all part of the experience.

We really need a midfielder though.. and need to get some players out

That'll do for me. Well said.

 

[Fortitude]

My biggest concerns with Moyes are whether he should be trusted with funds after the Fellaini debacle - if he's going to be moved on, it should be before he spends any more money.

My other concern is that we don't qualify for the CL next season and that brings forth the exodus of our elite talent and also puts us on a lower band as far as purchasing pull is concerned.

The final concern is that his football is just dire. Our play and our tactics give me no belief we can turn even minor deficits around. Every game where we go behind, I've got very little faith in Moyes that he has the know-how to turn it around.

Don't care about the cups or the CL this season as that's just fluff in a season as important as this has now become.

Losing isn't the biggest issue with our season, but rather the manner in which we're doing so both offensively and defensively. There's nothing in our play to pin any hope on and that is really depressing.

 

[Bestie07]

It's not a bizarre complaint at all. Playing dinosaour tactics is not going to help us getting results. Fergie was great at it, but he wasnt he best tactician neither. He just got the best out of every player.
If this is the way Moyes really intends us to play then I want him gone. Immidiately. As this is not going to take us anywhere.
I'm sure he doesnt though. WHich is also concerning as he seemingly fails to make us better

We were tactically a bit out-dated in the final years of Ferguson's reign. The only positive of him retiring for me was the chance to move to a more modern setup and we fecked that up as well by hiring Moyes.

 

[Bojan11]

In many ways this season reminds me of 2001/02

I think once Moyes upgrades the team and builds it to his own we will then start to see progress but that will take time. Better to take one step back to take two forward.

01/02? We were scoring freely that season. If we had a top class CB instead of Blanc then we would have won the league.

This reminds me nothing like that.

 

[blythy]

More then enough time to realize we've made a mistake just like Liverpool did with Hodgson.

Yeah, it was real classy hoe they handled that. A shining example of patience and conduct.

Look at things rationally;

1. Six months into a new job, he and his team are still learning about the players (and the club).
2. By all accounts his hands were tied in the summer. Blame Woodward, blame the tight Glazers. Either way, he can't be judged solely on the summer. The squad he inherited are the reigning champions and while it's blatantly obvious that we needed to strengthen certain areas - unfortunately real life isn't like a game of football manager where you can just pick a player with good stats and bingo he's arrived. Players need scouting, real life considerations need to be made.
3. We have had injuries to key players all season.
4. Sacking Moyes now (will never happen) will achieve what exactly? Maybe a few panic signings from a new manager in January? Is that really gonna be a fix for a club the size of United? Do you seriously think somebody else could just walk in and "rescue" us overnight?

 

[coolredwine]

Good. This season will sort out some fans.

 

[Plugsy]

Oh on the "feck sake sort it out" side.

I'm on the side of the fence that wants the manager to realise that we may not have the strongest squad we've ever had but it was still a team good enough to win the title with some to spare last season so this constant Stoke City/Sam Allardyce tactic where we try one thing over and over and over and over and over and over a-fecking-gain (out wide - cross) isn't necessary.

This isn't the greatest United team ever but it's better than needing limited tactical repetition to get through games for feck sake.

 

[stubie]

01/02? We were scoring freely that season. If we had a top class CB instead of Blanc then we would have won the league.

This reminds me nothing like that.

Not losing easy games at home? (Bolton, West Ham, Middlesbro)

 

[Godfather]

We were tactically a bit out-dated in the final years of Ferguson's reign. The only positive of him retiring for me was the chance to move to a more modern setup and we fecked that up as well by hiring Moyes.

I agree to a certain extent, although I had hopes for Moyes to do exactly that. Turns out he probably isnt

 

[pauldyson1uk]

We never thought it would get this bad did we.

Can't get any luck at the moment, players are letting us down, injuries are piling up, late winners against us and out of the cup
Where do we go from here? I'll give Moyes more time but this is awful. Fans are turning on him.

He should stay , not be sacked.
Most knew it would be hard after SAF left and who ever took over would have a hard jog, but not this bad.

 

[Mockney]

I'm all for "time", but the problem is he wasted half a season of his "time" by doing nothing in the summer, and might waste a whole year if it if he does nothing in January.

 

[africanspur]

I'm all for "time", but the problem is he wasted half a season of his "time" by doing nothing in the summer, and might waste a whole year if it if he does nothing in January.

Didn't he want Herrera and Coentrao in the summer?

Those players might not have made the difference but seems he wanted to do something in the summer and the board didn't back him for whatever reason.

 

[Feed Me]

It's tough, because Moyes is a really nice bloke first and foremost. But no one really wanted him when Fergie retired, he doesn't have a winning track record and he doesn't have a reputation for attractive football.

Fact is, yes, it was always going to be tough with Fergie retiring, but our season has turned into an unacceptable shambles. We're 5 points behind a strong looking Liverpool side in 4th, with Chelsea away to come soon. We're out of the FA Cup. If we overcome Sunderland in the League Cup, what hope do we have of beating City in the final? And we're going to get battered by the first good side we face in Europe.

Moyes has fecked it up.

 

[Godfather]

That'll do for me. Well said.

Well he's right partly. But when ppl say we need refreshing...well who knows what Moyes is going to come up with. I'm not sure I trust him on the market neither tbh.

 

[The_Red_Hope]

Desperately want him to succeed but it does look like he is terribly out of his depth. His body language on the bench does not inspire ANY confidence and it must be more of the same in the dressing room. His mindset to not change tactics and to play players out of position has been his undoing.
Definitely need new world class players and a culling of the deadweight in the present squad. Should be given time till the summer atleast.

 

[Feed Me]

Time time time. Its looking shit at the moment but replacing Ferguson was never going to be easy. He needs at least one season to implement his tactics and buy his players.

What are his tactics? It may sound as though I'm being facetious, but I genuinely am at a loss to work out what he's changed...

 

[BAMSOLA]

I said i'd give him till the end of the season before making my mind up. I'm gradually beginning to think that I might have to make up my mind before that. The job currently looks too big for him and his methods I'm afraid.

 

[Jimy_Hills_Chin]

I still want us to stick with him but my opinion will massively change if we don't fecking sign people this month

Why?

Moyes's job is to set up a team through personnel and tactics and inspire confidence into his players to perform to the best of their ability within his tactical framework. He can absolutely change what is happening on the pitch, that is within his power.

What he cannot do is make clubs sell their best players in January or make players move to United who do not want to move in January.

I would not be sad to see him go and I do not think that he is the right man to manage United anymore. Moyes's major problem now is that he is losing the Old Trafford crowd. It doesn't matter what posters on Redcafe think as most are not match going fans. That he is starting to lose the confidence of the clubs most important customers will make the Glazer's sit up and take notice. I think that the mass exodus at 85mins was the first true sign that the pressure is now on Moyes.

 

[simonhch]

Yeah, it was real classy hoe they handled that. A shining example of patience and conduct.

Look at things rationally;

1. Six months into a new job, he and his team are still learning about the players (and the club).
2. By all accounts his hands were tied in the summer. Blame Woodward, blame the tight Glazers. Either way, he can't be judged solely on the summer. The squad he inherited are the reigning champions and while it's blatantly obvious that we needed to strengthen certain areas - unfortunately real life isn't like a game of football manager where you can just pick a player with good stats and bingo he's arrived. Players need scouting, real life considerations need to be made.
3. We have had injuries to key players all season.
4. Sacking Moyes now (will never happen) will achieve what exactly? Maybe a few panic signings from a new manager in January? Is that really gonna be a fix for a club the size of United? Do you seriously think somebody else could just walk in and "rescue" us overnight?

You make a fair point. But I don't think Moyes was the right appointment in the first place. A lot of fans felt the same way. As did a lot of fans from other clubs. And so far his reign has been disastrous.

January signings aren't the answer, whether it is Moyes or a caretaker. The squad is far from perfect, and we've had some injuries but we are so much better than this. There has been no cohesive strategy. The tactics have been laughable. He's been outwitted repeatedly. If we did sack him, there should be a transfer embargo until the summer and a full time replacement has been hired.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm all for "time", but the problem is he wasted half a season of his "time" by doing nothing in the summer, and might waste a whole year if it if he does nothing in January.

Yup. I'd be willing to give him time if he at least showed a semblance of a way forward with united, if we showed some sort of creativity in our play or good play. He's wasted half a season playing Valencia non stop and smalling at right back non stop, and our tactics have been just give it to them to lump it in the box. That, along with doing nothing but wasting £27.5m on fellaini doesn't deserve more time. He's done nothing to show he's adapting to life at a top club and that he can come good.

 

[McGeady10]

Remember what SAF said;

"Your job now is to stand by our new manager!"

That's exactly what I'll be doing.

If these wankers don't want to play for Moyes lets get players in who do!!

 

[bosnian_red]

Didn't he want Herrera and Coentrao in the summer?

Those players might not have made the difference but seems he wanted to do something in the summer and the board didn't back him for whatever reason.

Yeah he wanted them with less then a few hours to spare after he realized we won't get anyone and then decided to splash e cash on fellaini instead of the vastly more talented Herrera.

 

[Garethw]

If we were playing attractive and entertaining football but still losing i'd be a lot more tolerant of the situation we are in.

The fact that not one thing has improved since Moyes became manager is damning.

Our football is absolutely dire at the moment.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He should get until at least the end of the season but we need a player or two in January, otherwise I see us missing out on the top 4. If that were to happen, it would be absolutely disastrous, make no mistake about it and, it would make it extremely difficult for Moyes to continue.

Also, the top-reds that get on their high-horse when anyone questions Moyes, need a reality check. Not everyone wanted Moyes in the first place and we have been a disgrace this season. Yes there are mitigating factors of course, but our football has been dour as have our results. It doesn't make any of you better fans by proclaiming that Moyes is the right man etc. Every fan is entitled to their opinion on Moyes, whether it be positive or negative.

Personally I think he does deserve time but things need to turn around and soon.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Fergie has left him with a lot to do. I think 4th is beyond this squad that would be fine but the Europa league is an awful competition to be. Playing on Thursdays and then on Sundays is draining for most squads.

We have a good squad but there is not enough top quality talent imo.

 

[africanspur]

What are his tactics? It may sound as though I'm being facetious, but I genuinely am at a loss to work out what he's changed...

I couldn't tell you tbh. Like I said, I didn't think he had the winning mentality for Man Utd. I didn't even think he had the winning mentality for Spurs and where we are aiming to be (competing on a level footing with 5 club with superior resources).

But now he's there. Clearly something went wrong with this summer's recruitment. Clearly something is going wrong now. But the man, for all his faults, clearly isn't an absolute buffoon. He should be given a chance to turn things around.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

This season is a write off and I seriously doubt that we'll qualify for the Champions league, But we should still give him time.

I still have faith that he can take us forward and that we will challenge next season. I don't think sacking him would be a good idea.