Its time for a change.

[mlclauhk]

That performance really sums up how utd have been playing these last few seasons.

1.Certain players have lost their desire to play and this is certainly having an effect on the team. Some players have to go.

2.Rio and Veron have not lived up to their price tags. Not only for this match, but for their performances during their time at the club.

3.Fergie is also paying the price of sticking with that 4-5-1 formation. I somehow think that he tries and tries to justify the price that he paid for veron by playing him every game and hoping that he does well. This is not working.

Changes have to be made everybody. It is clear for all to see.

 

[blythy]

Wondered how long this would take.

 

[mlclauhk]

i knew this would happen.

Stop being so narrow minded.

people like you can't accept anything. The sooner you wake up and realise that something drastic is needed the better. I would have thought that after the last two seasons you would agree with me.

 

[cD]

Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>Wondered how long this would take.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Cynical arent u?

 

[uranushk1]

Some of the fans already spot that and said that we need some big change after last season, yet Fergie still trust the current squad too much to do it. Only one 30m defender won't solve every problem we have. If this season also ends in failure, a rebuilt is definitely needed. The sooner we start it, the faster we will come good again.

 

[mlclauhk]

excactly my point. at least some people are actually living in the real world.

 

[cD]

I have to agree with you mlclauhk.

The Manchester United of old has long gone and you cannot kid yourself anymore without admitting to be positively blind

There are a few changes that are neccesary:

1. Utd need more depth in the squad. Our squad is no longer strong because of the lack of depth. A variety of players will produce a variety of talents resulting in better spontaneity and flair in the team.

2. We need to sell players who do not have the desire(eg: Veron and Gary Neville) and players who just dont have the talent to succeed at this level(Phil Neville)

3. There is something terribly wrong in the management structure at OT. Frankly, I think SAF SHOULD BE SACKED. Why must he be treated any differently from any other manager just because he has done well in the past? The fact of the matter is that he is not delivering the goods at the present moment. I dont see why Utd. should be loyal to Fergie...it isnt as if he was loyal with Ince and Stam. The fact is that when a manager fails to do his job he should be sacked(like a player would be sold if he played badly). SAF has failed to keep up with the changing face of world football and his tactics are now getting outdated and predictable. Modern football is played with great spirit and vigour. It is aggressive and fast and these are qualities that Ferguson has failed to instill in his team. His success has made him forget the basics of football, with the result that our team lack structure and organisation, which is why teams like City are able to take us apart. If you compare Fergie to Koeman(Ajax) you will notice that Koemans's team are extremely organised and tend to play with aggression and a NEVER SAY DIE ATTITUDE which UNITED LACK with the result that such teams are able to do fairly well given the relative lack of talent at the club. Ferguson has to adapt his tactics and pay more attention to the modern styles of play or we should get a new manager.

 

[cD]

Originally posted by mlclauhk:
<strong>excactly my point. at least some people are actually living in the real world.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, we aren't all Blythy the facist dictator

 

[barabis]

I think your team's now going through the same problems our team (Liverpool) went through just before our domination came to an end.

 

[corelive]

Originally posted by mlclauhk:
<strong>i knew this would happen.

Stop being so narrow minded.

people like you can't accept anything. The sooner you wake up and realise that something drastic is needed the better. I would have thought that after the last two seasons you would agree with me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So what the feck is the gaffer supposed to do?
also most of this team are the same as 99

 

[cD]

Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>


also most of this team are the same as 99</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes...I see your point...Now we have Barthez, Blanc, Silvestre, Ferdinand, Veron, RVN and OGS starting. Thats only 7 new players....

 

[devilish]

Wat SAF need to do.

1 Sell or dispose of the dead wood. May P Nev, Chadwick Blanc and Fortune they are not manutd's level and will never be

2 Introduce the youngsters from this season Richardson,Stewart, Oshea Tierney Djordic and Webber are promising and 2 or 3 of them may aviod us from spending loads of cash

3 Try to bring
a An experienced and influential defender which would lead our backline ( Ayala on free)
b a responsable left back who would compete with Silvestre ( Sorin/Chivu)
c a right winger cover to Becks ( Castroman)
d a hard working forward ( Saas free)
e a world class striker ( Ronaldinho)

4 Return to the 4-4-2

My idea is this. The league is now out of hand so let us bring the youths and see the talent that we have.

Next year we will add to this talent new talent so that we can really return to our best

 

[Private PeeWee]

Originally posted by barabis:
<strong>I think your team's now going through the same problems our team (Liverpool) went through just before our domination came to an end.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think you are spot on.

And it's natural. Nothing goes on forever.

It's just that it's so sad to experience the fall. No one wants to say goodbye to a period like we've had.

Fergie can run this team anyway he wants without being weighed. He will sit till he decides to go. And I think it will be the new manager's task to rebuild the team.

United are probably be among the teams that fight for the 3. spot in the league. And I thnik we will stay there for some time.

Our period is at the end, I believe, and no one knows when we will bounce back again. No one can know.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Originally posted by cd:
<strong>Frankly, I think SAF SHOULD BE SACKED.</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[giggzy]

kinell weastey.

why dont these muppets feck off and support their own local club? <img src="graemlins/annoyed.gif" border="0" alt="[Annoyed]" />

 

[WeasteDevil]

I wish they would giggzy!

 

[Livvie]

Basically we should have been able to beat City today, though I wouldn't have played Veron or Blanc because it was going to be a fast game.

On paper, we have a good team. It goes deeper than the personnel.

 

[antohan]

Originally posted by cd:
<strong>Ferguson has to adapt his tactics and pay more attention to the modern styles of play or we should get a new manager.</strong><hr></blockquote>

feck off. What's it with all this modern tactics and all that shite.

Forget the tactics, half of the time we are discussing whether we started 442 or 451 and whether when we did well it was one or the other (and most seem to see 442 where others see 451).

This is not a number game nor is football based on stale positions. Players should be able to adapt their game according to the game flow.

I agree we need some reinforcements, particularly one that can turn a whole fecking defensive barrier inside out.

I'm worried about spirit and performances. We miss Keano but it doesn't just go down to that. I doubt any of us or any manager can work that out.

If anyone can it's SAF (who I concede might have to be less protective of some). He knows them better than anyone else so he must be better equipped to diagnose the situation and find ways to get it sorted. Stick whoever your alternative fancy named manager is up your arse.

 

[ukbob]

3. There is something terribly wrong in the management structure at OT. Frankly, I think SAF SHOULD BE SACKED.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah and replace him with some know all whining prick like you and all the the other wannabe managers. Christ you aint been through nothing yet, accept what is happening as cyclic.
Rio has been with us for 5 minutes and he's fecking useless, Fergies no good, Veron,Beckham and all the fecking team for that matter. Get behind the team in good and bad. It may not be to your liking and if thats the case then feck off We are going through a rough time, have been for a while. It will get better and then we will read all about how you stuck with the team through the bad times. Supporting a team is just that, you SUPPORT them. Look the word up in the dictionary...support..To take sides with, to hold up and serve..to keep from sinking, uphold,advocate,champion. Not one word about complaining. If you can do the job better, go and apply. fecking pricks.

 

[WeasteDevil]

Well said Bob, well said!

 

[Waz]

Yeah, Bob. I agree with you on that.
Just one question have you supported all the past managers of United? Did you say get Atkinson OUT!!! Thought not.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Sometimes its the duty of a fan to complain. Seriously. We happen to have a good chairman, but some clubs are dead right to try and oust their bad chairmans. And some are dead right to ask for their manager to be sacked, because the club is bigger than any particular manager. At United things are different, we've not had to experience lots of shit managers, we've had the best manager in recent times. But players age, and so do managers, and sometimes that doesn't benefit them. Alex has been the master as certain things, like man management, but relied on assistants for things like Tactics, and Coaching. We could wait until we don't qualify for the Champions League - but when that happens it'll be too late and the board will act anyway.

 

[Waz]

Plus if all the fans, board etc follow the manger through thick and thin, in the end your in the 3rd Division.Think what it would be like if we hadn`t had got rid of Atkinson?

 

[ukbob]

Just one question have you supported all the past managers of United? Did you say get Atkinson OUT!!! Thought not. <hr></blockquote>

Yes, I have supported EVERY manager and every team since 54 and trust me there have been some very rough times. I have never or ever wanted a manager out and there have been some not up to par.

 

[farawaylands]

Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Plus if all the fans, board etc follow the manger through thick and thin, in the end your in the 3rd Division.Think what it would be like if we hadn`t had got rid of Atkinson?</strong><hr></blockquote>

oh come on, isn't there a difference between what's happening now and what happened back then?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Waz:
<strong>Yeah, Bob. I agree with you on that.
Just one question have you supported all the past managers of United? Did you say get Atkinson OUT!!! Thought not.</strong><hr></blockquote>

thats not the point.


SAF has rebuilt united into one the biggest clubs on the planet.


so lets have some respect please..

anyway, whoever comes in will be under alot of pressure, coz he'll have inherited an aging squad... no doubt, neil and co will be asking for his head n'all.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by farawaylands:
<strong>

oh come on, isn't there a difference between what's happening now and what happened back then?</strong><hr></blockquote>


i think atkinson won seven titles, one europeaa cup, CWC, and a few FA Cups....


obviously there's no difference.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

thats not the point.


SAF has rebuilt united into one the biggest clubs on the planet.


so lets have some respect please..

anyway, whoever comes in will be under alot of pressure, coz he'll have inherited an aging squad... no doubt, neil and co will be asking for his head n'all.</strong><hr></blockquote>
imo a player, or a manager, needs to be given time to prove themselves and make a difference. Players tend to need up to a year and half. Managers can require much longer, depending on the degree of change required. Alex got a long time because a lot of change was required. He can't complain about not being given a chance - in fact he probably shouldn't have been allowed to change his mind regarding retirement. When a new manager comes in, with this squad, he should really win something within 3 years, but if he's going in the right direction then maybe 4-5.

 

[ukbob]

Plus if all the fans, board etc follow the manger through thick and thin, in the end your in the 3rd Division.Think what it would be like if we hadn`t had got rid of Atkinson? <hr></blockquote>
Oh FFS, Who has said anything about the board. I support the team through thick and thin, the good and the bad. I leave the board to do what they have to do, in them I trust the same as the manager. I trust the board to make the right decision, you know like firing Atkinson etc. Despite all the ups and downs are we in the third.? Was you around when all and sundry wanted Fergie out. Basically one game from being fired, thank god I trusted the board. Its thanks to him that 90% of you are in here now.
I gurantee you half you cnuts wouldn't give United a second thought had it not been for what Fergie achieved.

 

[arnie sidebottom]

Purely hypothetical, I know but...had Fergie retired and the new man inherited more or less the same players, what pressures would he be under now ?

Fact is that SAF has spent £m's recently and won nothing. Clearly the squad needs further investment, and in some areas, a bit more time and patience. But will plc let SAF near the cheque book again ?

If we get a bum draw in the next round of CL and drop off the pace in the PL, I'd expect a stock exchange announcement around February.

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by Neil Thomson:
<strong>
imo a player, or a manager, needs to be given time to prove themselves and make a difference. Players tend to need up to a year and half. Managers can require much longer, depending on the degree of change required. Alex got a long time because a lot of change was required. He can't complain about not being given a chance - in fact he probably shouldn't have been allowed to change his mind regarding retirement. When a new manager comes in, with this squad, he should really win something within 3 years, but if he's going in the right direction then maybe 4-5.</strong><hr></blockquote>

SAF has done enough not to be sacked/moved upstairs, whatever happens, no matter how bad the situation is,

anyone calling for his head isn't a united fan.

sorry but thats how i see it.

 

[blythy]

Originally posted by ukbob:
<strong>

Yeah and replace him with some know all whining prick like you and all the the other wannabe managers. Christ you aint been through nothing yet, accept what is happening as cyclic.
Rio has been with us for 5 minutes and he's fecking useless, Fergies no good, Veron,Beckham and all the fecking team for that matter. Get behind the team in good and bad. It may not be to your liking and if thats the case then feck off We are going through a rough time, have been for a while. It will get better and then we will read all about how you stuck with the team through the bad times. Supporting a team is just that, you SUPPORT them. Look the word up in the dictionary...support..To take sides with, to hold up and serve..to keep from sinking, uphold,advocate,champion. Not one word about complaining. If you can do the job better, go and apply. fecking pricks.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Here Here

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>Purely hypothetical, I know but...had Fergie retired and the new man inherited more or less the same players, what pressures would he be under now ?

( </strong><hr></blockquote>

arnie the next manager won't be a success IMO.

thats unless he's given atleast 5 years.

 

[blythy]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>
But will plc let SAF near the cheque book again ?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

If they know what's good for the club and not their pockets.

It's not like we can't afford it FFS.

 

[Neil Thomson]

Originally posted by arnie sidebottom:
<strong>Purely hypothetical, I know but...had Fergie retired and the new man inherited more or less the same players, what pressures would he be under now ?

Fact is that SAF has spent £m's recently and won nothing. Clearly the squad needs further investment, and in some areas, a bit more time and patience. But will plc let SAF near the cheque book again ?

If we get a bum draw in the next round of CL and drop off the pace in the PL, I'd expect a stock exchange announcement around February. </strong><hr></blockquote>
If (more like when realistically) we lose to liverpool and arsenal in december, you'd think that the board would be tempted to make the change and let the new manager get some players during the mid-season transfer window.

BTW ukbob, we're not 3rd, we're now 5th.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by corelive:
<strong>

So what the feck is the gaffer supposed to do?
also most of this team are the same as 99</strong><hr></blockquote>

you're overlooking a key point. the team is almost the same.. but the formation the gaffer is using is COMPLETELY different. that's causing us the title.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by WeasteDevil:
<strong>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

no.. SAF shouldn't be sacked.. but someone oughta put some sense into him about the fact that Veron is ruining our offensive game entirely.. esp in the EPL.. why is it so hard to see.. i'm hurt by the formation he chose today.. i'm truly truly hurt.. i'm in pain seeing these results.. i'm pain seeing that SAF has taken his ignorance to another level.. beyond recall..

 

[blythy]

Why don't you apply for his job then?

 

[giggzy]

Originally posted by blythy:
<strong>Why don't you apply for his job then? </strong><hr></blockquote>

he probably has on Champ Manager

kin muppet.

 

[RUnited]

Originally posted by giggzy:
<strong>

SAF has done enough not to be sacked/moved upstairs, whatever happens, no matter how bad the situation is,

anyone calling for his head isn't a united fan.

sorry but thats how i see it.</strong><hr></blockquote>


you want to be stuck with SAF and the formation and tactics he's using? i want SAF.. but the old self SAF.. not the current one.. if he continues like this then i would not be surprised if the board wanted to replace him..

you have to wake up and see reality.. you can be a united fan without being ignorant.. SAF isn't producing results.. many of us fans have our own ideas about how things should be.. yet SAF is pushing forward with what 85% of us think is wrong..

don't tell me you were totally confident we were going to win tonight.. i bet almost all of us didn't have that feeling of a winner before the game.. we were upbeat.. but we were also keeping our fingers crossed that 4-4-1-1 would finally work..