Television It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia

robinamicrowave said:
I think we're learning that it's not as simple as 'dick = dude, vagina = woman' anymore, that it's always been more complicated for lots of people even if we haven't always been aware. I think The Gang Solves the Bathroom is proof that a person being transgender / transsexual isn't really a source of comedy these days.
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It still is that simple when it comes to dating for most though. And however you look at it, the gang has always been crass and insensitive.
In this latest series they basically have Dennis as a kidnapping rapist. If it wasn't for the bathroom episode I'd be inclined to think gender insensitivity isn't at the forefront of their mind.
 
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Just started watching a couple episodes of this, loving it so far :D
 
I honestly think if they'd switched up the order of the episodes this season would have been far better received.

There was a couple of real stinkers (Female Boggs and Charlie's Superbowl episode), but had they had Dennis return in Episode 4 (after the two Super Bowl episodes, but again, there is no saving Charlie's one and Female Bodds) then the run of 6 episodes that he is in (which are all good to very good with the possibly exception of clip show) everything would have meshed together so much better.

I get why they didn't want to front load episodes they must have known were a bit crap, but it felt incredibly anticlimactic that Dennis just disappeared again and the quality dipped at the end.
 
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NinjaFletch said:
I honestly think if they'd switched up the order of the episodes this season would have been far better received.

There was a couple of real stinkers (Female Boggs and Charlie's Superbowl episode), but had they had Dennis return in Episode 4 (after the two Super Bowl episodes, but again, there is no saving Charlie's one and Female Bodds) then the run of 6 episodes that he is in (which are all good to very good with the possibly exception of clip show) everything would have meshed together so much better.

I get why they didn't want to front load episodes they must have known were a bit crap, but it felt incredibly anticlimactic that Dennis just disappeared again and the quality dipped at the end.
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I think you might be right actually. Having watched the season through again I've enjoyed each episode without Dennis a lot more because I've not gone in hoping he'll turn up. When the season first aired his absence and presence were both distractions. If he was in an episode you'd be grateful he was there, if he was missing you'd find yourself feeling a little downhearted that he wasn't. Re-order the season (and maybe re-write it slightly) so that the Super Bowl episodes contain Mindy Kaling, are condensed into one episode, and come first in the season. Then have the rest of the season (other than the finale, which you could forgive as a flashback episode) run as normal.

1. The Gang Wins the Big Game {put Mindy Kaling in this one}
2. The Gang Beats Boggs: Ladies Reboot {Mindy Kaling would also fit in this one}
3. The Gang Makes Paddy's Great Again
4. The Gang Escapes
5. Time's Up for the Gang
6. The Gang Gets New Wheels
7. The Gang Solves the Bathroom Problem
8. The Gang Does a Clip Show
9. (some other episode they could have written)
10. Mac Finds His Pride
 
The season as a whole was poor, but Mac’s dance was transcendental. My Mrs cried. Rob McElhenny is the Christian Bale of comedy. Mad props.

By sheer chance I ended up watching two entirely separate videos this week about “Political Correctness and comedy” (one of them was Contrapoints, don’t remember the other) that both ended up using Sunny as the prime example of how modern comedy can be simultaneously more edgy and controversial, and on the surface far more “un-PC” than anything before it, whilst still being smart, respectful and above all widly creative.

I mention this ‘cos I also (for some reason, at 3am) ended up browsing the comments on an old “Jefferson’s” clip, where Mr Jefferson got mad about his son marrying a mixed race girl, and was subsequently gleefully teased by Archie Bunker (nee Alf Garnet) because, you know, even the blacks can be racist too! Hahahahaha.... I don’t really even need to tell you that the vast majority of them were in the vein of “this is proper comedy, you couldn’t make this now ‘cos millennials would flip!” Because of course they were. Even though what they were essentially laughing at was the idea that mixed race relationships were comically uncomfortable and “weeeeiiirrrd!”, having evidently never watched anything (or indeed evolved) beyond 1979.

Which is why even in a poor season, I find it hard to truly hate on Sunny. ‘Cos it’s unequivocally something that could never have been made in any other era, and is far more edgy and boundary pushing than any 13 + season mainstream sitcom has ever been (yes, even South - everything new that doesn’t really effect us is dumb - Park) but which never gets it laughs from punching down in the obvious ways, despite fearlessly addressing social issues head on, constantly.

So yeah, bad season. But God Bless it for still trying.
 
Just watched the Christmas Special again, last episode of season 5. It is great, I never get tired of it. The intro is like a tradition to me now. That actually applies to all episodes except for some of the most obvious repeated jokes. There is so much personality and subtle humour involved, almost always something new.
 
Mockney said:
The season as a whole was poor, but Mac’s dance was transcendental. My Mrs cried. Rob McElhenny is the Christian Bale of comedy. Mad props.

By sheer chance I ended up watching two entirely separate videos this week about “Political Correctness and comedy” (one of them was Contrapoints, don’t remember the other) that both ended up using Sunny as the prime example of how modern comedy can be simultaneously more edgy and controversial, and on the surface far more “un-PC” than anything before it, whilst still being smart, respectful and above all widly creative.

I mention this ‘cos I also (for some reason, at 3am) ended up browsing the comments on an old “Jefferson’s” clip, where Mr Jefferson got mad about his son marrying a mixed race girl, and was subsequently gleefully teased by Archie Bunker (nee Alf Garnet) because, you know, even the blacks can be racist too! Hahahahaha.... I don’t really even need to tell you that the vast majority of them were in the vein of “this is proper comedy, you couldn’t make this now ‘cos millennials would flip!” Because of course they were. Even though what they were essentially laughing at was the idea that mixed race relationships were comically uncomfortable and “weeeeiiirrrd!”, having evidently never watched anything (or indeed evolved) beyond 1979.

Which is why even in a poor season, I find it hard to truly hate on Sunny. ‘Cos it’s unequivocally something that could never have been made in any other era, and is far more edgy and boundary pushing than any 13 + season mainstream sitcom has ever been (yes, even South - everything new that doesn’t really effect us is dumb - Park) but which never gets it laughs from punching down in the obvious ways, despite fearlessly addressing social issues head on, constantly.

So yeah, bad season. But God Bless it for still trying.
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Other than the slightly unfair South Park criticism, I feel this post.
 
sullydnl said:
Other than the slightly unfair South Park criticism, I feel this post.
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I love South Park. I used to consider it the most intelligent show on TV (when I was still 20 odd and really into Hitchens) and I still consider Trey Parker to be an absolute genius... but I’ve only quite recently been clued in to how a lot of non white, straight, not entirely comfotable with the status quo type peeps view it (particularly the latter, more political, and less excusably ignorant series) as a big paen for “everything was basically kinda cool in 1997, and anyone annoyed about that is a radical snowflake” and once you start seeing it, and how all of Stans rants are basically well worded riffs on “hey guys, caring about shit is kinda lame” then it becomes a lot harder to love it. Especially in 2018.

I put a lot of it down to them simply aging out of the culture. As everyone does. Team America is still one of the very best satires of its age. But that age is a good decade old now, and no longer as applicable.
 
Wow, the ending to the Mac episode was incredibly moving. Totally blindsided me.
 
Just watched the dance. Wow. What a finale. God I love this show. Even if this season was hit and miss, I love this show.
 


Season 14 bitches!

Hopefully Glenn will be in all the episodes this time now that his other show (AP Bio) got cancelled, I feel like season 13 suffered a lot with his absence.
 
After the last season I’m not overly excited for the next one. Hopefully it’s an improvement.
 
@Snowle Gunnar Solskjær

The main issue with the previous season, apart from Glenn Howerton's absence in various episodes is that the writing team underwent a significant change. Many of the writers who were involved collaboratively on most of the episodes in previous seasons weren't involved in the most recent one. That's why the writing seemed off. My understanding is that the main team of writers will work on next season and the consistency should be back up again.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
@Snowle Gunnar Solskjær

The main issue with the previous season, apart from Glenn Howerton's absence in various episodes is that the writing team underwent a significant change. Many of the writers who were involved collaboratively on most of the episodes in previous seasons weren't involved in the most recent one. That's why the writing seemed off. My understanding is that the main team of writers will work on next season and the consistency should be back up again.
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That's good news. I dunno what it was like for other seasons because I only got into it pretty late, but it seemed like expectations may have affected it too.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
@Snowle Gunnar Solskjær

The main issue with the previous season, apart from Glenn Howerton's absence in various episodes is that the writing team underwent a significant change. Many of the writers who were involved collaboratively on most of the episodes in previous seasons weren't involved in the most recent one. That's why the writing seemed off. My understanding is that the main team of writers will work on next season and the consistency should be back up again.
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At least one episode making fun of the Mueller/trump/impeachment issue.
1 with Cricket.
1 with the McPoyles.

Good stuff.
 
To be he fair, the last season did have the sexual harassment/sensitivity training episode... Which was brilliant. (Though anytime Dennis goes full psychopath it generally is)
 
VeevaVee said:
That's good news. I dunno what it was like for other seasons because I only got into it pretty late, but it seemed like expectations may have affected it too.
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This, from IASIP on Reddit should explain last season, writing wise.

The Different Approach On The Writing Of Season 13
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I think this season 13 has been the weakest season of It's Always Sunny in terms of actual writing. And the main reason for that, I think, is the lack of main writers featured in this season. Let's take a look at past seasons writers, and compare it to the writers of Season 13. For the sake of simplification, I'll take anyone with over 20 writing credits on the show as a main writer, which leaves us with 6 main writers: Glenn Howerton, Rob McElhenney, Charlie Day, David Hornsby, Scott Marder and Rob Rosell.

So, for reference:

  • Season 01: 7 Episodes written by main writers (4 by Rob, 1 by Glen and 2 by Charlie & Rob);

  • Season 02: 10 episodes written by main writers (1 by Hornsby; 4 by Rob and 5 by Charlie - 1 by himself; 1 with Rob; 1 with Glenn; 1 with Rob & Glenn; and 1 with Eric Falconer and Chris Romano);

  • Season 03: 15 episodes written by main writers (6 by Scott & Rosell - 3 by themselves, 1 with Glenn, 1 with David and 1 with Charlie - ; 5 by Charlie - 2 with David, 1 with Rob, 1 Glenn and 1 with Glenn & David - ; 4 by Rob and David - 1 by both, 1 by David and 2 by Rob);

  • Season 04: 13 episodes written by main writers (7 by Charlie - 3 with Rob & Glenn; 1 with Glenn & David; 1 with Rob & Adam Stein; 1 with Sonny Lee & Patrick Walsh and 1 with Jordan Young & Elijah Aron - ; 4 by Scott & Rosell - 1 by themselves, 1 with Glenn, 1 with Rob and 1 with David - ; 2 by David - one alone and 1 with Glenn & Rob)

  • Season 05: 10 episodes written by main writers (1 episode written by Rob & Glenn, 2 by Charlie & Glenn, 1 by Charlie and Dave Chernin, 2 by David; 3 by Scott & Rosell and 1 episode by David, Scott & Rosell); and 2 episodes by guest writers (Becky Mann & Audra Sielaff and Sonny Lee & Patrick Walsh);

  • Season 06: 10 episodes written by main writers (3 Episodes written by Rob and Charlie, 3 by Hornsby - 1 co-written by Becky Mann & Audra Sielaff, 3 By Scott & Rosell and 1 by Rosell); and 3 episodes by guest writers (Becky Mann & Audra Sielaff; Luvh Rakh and Dave & John Chernin);

  • Season 07: 9 episodes written by main writers (2 by Rob & Glenn, 1 by Charlie & Rob, 1 by Charlie & Glenn, 1 by Charlie, Glenn & Rob, 3 by Scott & Rosell - 1 co-written by Mehar Sethi - and 1 by David Hornsby); and 4 episodes by guest writers (Charlie Hornsby, Luvh Rakh, and 2 by Dave & John Chernin);

  • Season 08: 7 Episodes written by main writers (5 by Rob, Glen and Charlie, 1 by David and 1 by Scott & Rossel); and 3 episodes by guest writers (Dave & John Chernin, Luvh Rakhe and Mehar Sethi);

  • Season 09: 7 Episodes written by main writers (3 by Rob, Glen and Charlie, 2 by David, 1 by Scott and 1 by Rossel); and 3 episodes by guest writers (David Benioff & D. B. Weiss and 2 by Dave & John Chernin)

  • Season 10: **9 episodes written by main writers (**5 by Rob, Glen and Charlie, 1 by Scott, 1 by Rosell and 2 by David - 1 co-written with Dave & John Chernin); and 1 episode by guest writers (by Dave & John Chernin);

  • Season 11: 5 episodes written by main writers (1 by Rob & Charlie and 4 by David & Scott - 2 together + 1 each); and 5 episodes by guest writers (Conor Galvin, Erin Ledgin, Hunter Covington, Josh & Jon Silberman and Dave & John Chernin);

  • Season 12: 6 Episodes written by main writers (4 written by Rob, Glen and Charlie and 2 by David & Marder); and 4 episodes written by guest writers (Megan Ganz, Conor Galvin, Erin Ledgin and Dannah Feinglass Phirman & Danielle Schneider);
So, the aftermath:

  • Except for Seasons 7, 11 and 12, the maximum of episodes without any main writer is 3.

  • Season 7 has 4 episodes without main writers, but it has 13 episodes.That's almost 70% of the season written by the main writers, the equivalent of 7 episodes on a 10 episode season (it's basically the same as Season 8 and 9);

  • Season 11 is 50% main writers, and Season 12 is 60%.
That takes us to Season 13. This season has had 8 writers so far.

  • Three staff writers, that are credited as such in every episode. Erin Ryan, Adam Weinstock & Andy Jones. Besides that, they are also credited as the main writers for 2 episodes: The Gang Solves The Bathroom Problem (Erin Ryan), and Charlie's Home Alone (Adam Weinstock & Andy Jones). This season is the first relevant gig for all three of them, and they had never worked on It's Always Sunny before (except for Adam Weinstock, who is credited as an assistant in 2013)

  • Dannah Feinglass Phirman & Danielle Schneider, who wrote 2 episodes: The Gang Beats Boggs: Ladies Reboot and The Gang Does A Clip Show. They had previously written Old Lady House: A Situation Comedy, from Season 12. Besides IASIP, they have a bunch of writing credits for some reality tv shows, and reality tv mockumentaries.

  • Conor Galvin, who also wrote 2 episodes: The Gang Gets New Wheels, and The Gang Wins The Big Game. He has worked as a writers assistant in Seasons 8 and 9, and as a story editor in Season 12. He also wrote McPoyle vs Ponderosa: The Trial Of The Century, from Season 11, and Making Dennis Reynolds A Murderer, from Season 12. No major credits outside of IASIP.

  • Megan Ganz, who also wrote 2 episodes: The Gang Escapes, and Time's Up For The Gang. She is credited as an Co-Executive Producer in all 10 episodes of Season 12, and as an Executive Producer in the first 4 episodes of Season 13. She also wrote the Season 12 episode The Gang Tends Bar. Besides IASIP, she has written 3 episodes of The Last Man On Earth, 7 episodes of Modern Family (amongst them the fan favorite Connection Lost), and 6 episodes of Community (such as Cooperative Caligraphy - the king of all bottle episodes imo - Basic Luin Urology, and the mockumentary styled Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking and Documentary Filmmaking: Redux).

  • David Hornsby, also known as Cricket, who wrote The Gang Makes Paddy's Great Again. He is credited as a Co-Executive Producer/Executive Producer/Supervising Producer in 97 episodes, and counted above as one of the main writers.
This gives us 1 out of 9 episodes written by a main writer, which is a huge difference from past seasons! This is, for me, the reason why the natural flow has been so off this season. It lacks the writing of people who can differenciate between whats the spirit of the show and the gimmicks of the show.
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I’m a huge sunny fan and I’m always recommending it but the quality in the last season was shocking

I hope they don’t ruin it by pumping out pointless episodes, I’d rather they just stop than produce that crap again.
 
I can see they’ve got Megan Ganz writing for them again which makes me worry. They’re clearly shooting some noir themed episode which is just not what the show does. Every episode she writes is like some tossed out meta idea that didn’t make Community. Guarantee that episode is shit. Need Charlie, Rob and Glenn writing them.
 
Solius said:
I can see they’ve got Megan Ganz writing for them again which makes me worry. They’re clearly shooting some noir themed episode which is just not what the show does. Every episode she writes is like some tossed out meta idea that didn’t make Community. Guarantee that episode is shit. Need Charlie, Rob and Glenn writing them.
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You mean The Gang Tends Bar, which was great? And The Gang Escapes, which was solid? And Time's Up for the Gang, which was the best episode of season 13? You mean that Megan Ganz?

Edit: The same Megan Ganz who wrote Cooperative Calligraphy, Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking, and Basic Lupine Urology for Community? Again, you mean that Megan Ganz?
 
robinamicrowave said:
You mean The Gang Tends Bar, which was great? And The Gang Escapes, which was solid? And Time's Up for the Gang, which was the best episode of season 13? You mean that Megan Ganz?

Edit: The same Megan Ganz who wrote Cooperative Calligraphy, Intermediate Documentary Filmmaking, and Basic Lupine Urology for Community? Again, you mean that Megan Ganz?
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Yes. Might have been mistaken then but a lot of the episodes last season were so meta I felt they had her influence on them even if she didn't write them. Season 13 was shite so something being the best episode of that season isn't hard.

Anyway my point wasn't she's a bad writer. Her style suited Community perfectly and she was did great work on that show but I just worry the same influences last season will be in season 14. It's not what Sunny is about.
 
Solius said:
Yes. Might have been mistaken then but a lot of the episodes last season were so meta I felt they had her influence on them even if she didn't write them. Season 13 was shite so something being the best episode of that season isn't hard.

Anyway my point wasn't she's a bad writer. Her style suited Community perfectly and she was did great work on that show but I just worry the same influences last season will be in season 14. It's not what Sunny is about.
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Yup. See my post above. The consistent writing team so prevalent throughout previous seasons was largely not present in the writing of season 13. It’s not a coincidence that this was its worst season.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Yup. See my post above. The consistent writing team so prevalent throughout previous seasons was largely not present in the writing of season 13. It’s not a coincidence that this was its worst season.
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In your opinion. I think it was just as good as the rest of the show and probably better than season 11.
 
Back tonight! Looks like Glenn Howerton was a bit more involved this season, directing some episodes and Rob & Charlie have written 2 of the first 6 compared to one all last season so here's hoping Season 13 was a blip.
 
Don't even think season 13 was a blip. It was the weakest season so far but I really enjoyed it on a re-watch.

Looking forward to finding the season 14 premiere.
 
It's aired now hasn't it? Can't wait to watch it when I get home!

Funnily enough I actually won tickets to go to the premiere in LA. However I won them on Friday so there was no chance that I'd have been able to make it there :(
 
Managed to find it online. Excellent episode.

I thought season 13 was a lot better than people gave it credit for. I think some of the humour can fall flat when you're waiting to see whether Dennis will show up, but it vastly improves on a re-watch when you know if he's going to be in a particular episode or not. But this new episode was "back on form", as it were. Classic Sunny set-ups with classic Sunny pay-offs - Mac, Dee, and Dennis try to swindle some poor unsuspecting couple and push the scheme to breaking point, Charlie and Frank get up to some dumb and disgusting hijinx that bring the best out of Danny DeVito and Charlie Day.

Hardly a top 10 classic or anything but still an excellent episode from this stunning show that hasn't shown any signs of slowing down, even after all these years.
 
Honestly though that was pretty awful. The acting is disjointed, none of the characters seem quite like themselves and it wasn’t funny at all.
 
Yeah it wasn’t great, a couple of laughs here and there. I didn’t really know what Mac and Dennis were doing half the time.
 
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