Oh ffs. I used to like Shaw. It’s so unfortunate that we can’t get rid of all the players we need too otherwise we would literally be left with nobody
It’s the players, not the manager
- Thread starter VidaRed
- Start date
Oh ffs. I used to like Shaw. It’s so unfortunate that we can’t get rid of all the players we need too otherwise we would literally be left with nobody
Season ticket holder here
Not surprised players feel much better and confident away from the club.
Social media is always toxic, but the atmosphere has been rotten in the stadium too this season, which transmits the players who look depressed and frozen by fear.
The whole place groans with anger and disappointment at the slightest mistake, and booing/ OTT cheering subs isn't healthy. Don't care if it's Rashford or Maguire - it just feeds the toxicity and is counter productive.
There is literally no point in kicking players when they're down anyway.
It's not going to magically make them play better
We can blame players all we like and say they need to grow up and try more/play better or whatever, but they're human beings at the end of the day.
We still have corners of the stadium who always support the team through the difficult moments, but the numbers are dwindling.
Not surprised players feel much better and confident away from the club.
Social media is always toxic, but the atmosphere has been rotten in the stadium too this season, which transmits the players who look depressed and frozen by fear.
The whole place groans with anger and disappointment at the slightest mistake, and booing/ OTT cheering subs isn't healthy. Don't care if it's Rashford or Maguire - it just feeds the toxicity and is counter productive.
There is literally no point in kicking players when they're down anyway.
It's not going to magically make them play better
We can blame players all we like and say they need to grow up and try more/play better or whatever, but they're human beings at the end of the day.
We still have corners of the stadium who always support the team through the difficult moments, but the numbers are dwindling.
Great points. I would also add though, it doesn’t help when the board allowed Ole and the team to continue out there for so long as dead men walking.
It’s disgraceful they took so long to sack Ole while rivals chanted taking the p*as out of him, our players and fans.
This, Ralf has persisted with players that have let him down time and time again. How Maguire has never been dropped, how is Rashford still getting minutes, Shaw and AWB had crawled their way back into the side, Bruno, Pogba? In January Ralf made the choice to trim his side but he sided with the same snakes that got Ole the sack.
He wasn't backed in January but he didn't really give fringe players and more youths a fair chance at it. People can argue about how the likes of Amad aren't ready but if you look at what Rashford has served uo whilst in his sulk he is not a PL standard player atm so it wouldn't have hurt us to invest those minutes in Amad or Hannibal.
We have not had a single world class manager in their prime since SAF.
Its not the players though its the managers, why?
If you look at Liverpool gengenpress is basically a religion now because Klopp sold it to the board and the players, same as City Tiki taka is the same at City.
This men have the tactical nous and also the charisma to carry out their vision....the players are a group of individuals who would follow a manager if they're impressed, of course you'll have opposition among them and some who are unsuitable for your football....its up to you to systematically get rid, to achieve that you'll need to be clever and produce result as well, Pep could from the get go due to his status in the game, but Klopp couldn't straight away, he had the likes of Sturridge, Clyne and Benteke initially but got rid over time, it wouldn't be an easy job as the mess of the previous managers have been piling up.
If you look at Liverpool gengenpress is basically a religion now because Klopp sold it to the board and the players, same as City Tiki taka is the same at City.
This men have the tactical nous and also the charisma to carry out their vision....the players are a group of individuals who would follow a manager if they're impressed, of course you'll have opposition among them and some who are unsuitable for your football....its up to you to systematically get rid, to achieve that you'll need to be clever and produce result as well, Pep could from the get go due to his status in the game, but Klopp couldn't straight away, he had the likes of Sturridge, Clyne and Benteke initially but got rid over time, it wouldn't be an easy job as the mess of the previous managers have been piling up.
Do check and report back how many players from the starting xi that klopp inherited were "sold gengenpress" and retained.
Same with pep.
Klopp had very few world class players(read huge egos) when he joined. He did also add players who fit his style of play. Some of them became world class under him.
I think Rangnick is more than capable to do the same if he get full trust.
A good combination for me is Erik ten Hag and Rangnick. They need full backing from the board and the fans. It’s not going to be easy, we got lots of fecking egos and shitheads in our club.
I think Rangnick is more than capable to do the same if he get full trust.
A good combination for me is Erik ten Hag and Rangnick. They need full backing from the board and the fans. It’s not going to be easy, we got lots of fecking egos and shitheads in our club.
Thing is in the case of Klopp he started off with them, and slowly made changes, there wasn't a massive overhaul, he was tactful, he didn't throw out his toys when he didnt get what he wanted like Mourinho neither did he allow the players to get their way like Ole, you have to be good at politics to manage a top club successfully.
Pep had leverage, an excellent record before arriving at city he came on his own terms, he worked with Silva, Kompany and Aguero just fine and guys like Sterling, Debruyne were there prior to his arrival.
Mourinho bought Pogba for a world record fee and fell out with him, the board wouldn't want to sell Pogba, that would be similar to Klopp falling out with Van Dijk, Ole pampared them all and forgot discipline.
In my opinion we haven't had a manager that can coach the right football, handle internal politics and maintain discipline.
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True but Coutinho wasn't an exact fit, but he tried to make it work knowing the board were unlikely to back him on getting rid, plus the players he purchased suit the vision, Mourinho purchased Pogba, Van gaal Di Maria, you see the issue.
It's too easy to blame the players. There's this notion that our players don't care, don't try and are weak that seems to be perpetrated mainly by pundits who really can't offer a detailed insight into what is going wrong tactically, so in their frustration resort back to 'lack of effort/lack of character'.
I don't know what evidence there is that as a collective, we lack effort or character. We're probably the 3rd or 4th best XI on paper, and we're badly organised. Therefore, our league position is probably about right.
At what point do we stop blaming this so-called lack of effort or leadership, and just accept it comes down to basic footballing ability and organisation?
I don't know what evidence there is that as a collective, we lack effort or character. We're probably the 3rd or 4th best XI on paper, and we're badly organised. Therefore, our league position is probably about right.
At what point do we stop blaming this so-called lack of effort or leadership, and just accept it comes down to basic footballing ability and organisation?
Tell me again how it is the managers fault if our players cant successfully pass a ball 5 yards ?
The greater share of the blame is on the players in my book.
The greater share of the blame is on the players in my book.
Hard to figure this group finished second under Ole last season. We added Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane and recalled an rejuvenated Lingard from West Ham. Can't fathom why the drop off has been so severe.
It’s actually a really simple equation. When an individual is playing poorly in a strong team/system they are likely not good enough. When a collective of 15/16 players are all playing shockingly and look like complete strangers on the pitch the buck stops with the manager. Now that doesn’t completely absolve the players of all blame and responsibility but it does mean we should have some awareness that these individual performances are not completely reflective of their true levels.
3 consecutive managers?
One of the most overused and useless phrases ever uttered along with "the customer is always right"
Yes you can hire multiple crap managers. We just hold onto them too long. Most of these players have changed over the years too.
Yet it’s entirely apt here. The manager is the responsibility. Something Madrid, Chelsea etc learnt along time ago.
Many would say that last season was a total fluke and our natural form is what we see now, I find it hard to believe honestly.
Last season and 2 years ago we were above average mostly, now we are a complete depression.
Many will disagree but I thought we were pretty ordinary last season in a lot of games and we were built to play a certain way that probably wasn't sustainable in the long run. I always thought we approached everything as the underdog and i think that helped this team.
Jose's 2018 team was pretty fecking dire at times too and yet the table said that was the second best team in the league too.
Exactly, not sure why United fans never seem to grasp this concept. Real had issues under 4 managers in a season and then Zidane came back in and won the title the very next season.
There signs were obviously there last season, we were dubbed Moments FC for a reason as we'd be shite throughout most of a game but hit 3 goals in a 15 minute spell that won us the points and you hoped the natural progression from last season would be to turn those good small periods in games into larger ones.
It's obviously gone the other way though, there's been no progression and we've lost those spells in most games as well
It is not just the manager(s) or the players. The whole structure of this club is not fit to produce a contender. It is not like United has terrible players or United does not spend. We have spent more than Liverpool. But, Liverpool has a world class working structure and United has Mike Phelans or Darren Fletchers.
The result of today's game is normal. It is what it is supposed to be. United, with the all the mistakes they made should not be beating Liverpool.
The result of today's game is normal. It is what it is supposed to be. United, with the all the mistakes they made should not be beating Liverpool.
The club is rotten at the core - honest assessments by Ralf are spot on.
He isn’t even a fecking manager but we employed him as such.
He’s ruthless enough that I like him in his new role.
He isn’t even a fecking manager but we employed him as such.
He’s ruthless enough that I like him in his new role.
When it comes to problems, any thread discussing anything other than contempt for this squad of players is a waste of time. Yes there are high level changes that have to happen but what we've witnessed today explains everything this season. The players didn't care, they don't hold themselves to high standards and they'd have been comfortable losing 1 nil or scraping a draw. Instead all the ways it could go worse happened today - no bail out by de gea, no opposition mistakes, no Ronaldo show. They've been just about disguising just how little they give a feck and they didn't think this would happen today. They've been exposed top to bottom. A group of chancers who seem to hate one another and only care about money. It went 4 nil and they said oh feck we better make half an effort here again. Id gladly see none of them again
I'm looking at the two teams out there at the Amex tonight and, frighteningly, you can make a case for at least half of Brighton's players to start for us.
So how were Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and Maguire responsible for this result?
A truly bizarre take. Who would claim they are? They're responsibile for being absolutely useless every time they play though
Lamptey caceido bissouma and the left back would all easily start for us
You look at the goals conceded, I struggle how its a coaching issue. You dont need to be coached to prevent those opportunities. Closing down a man, switching on, its just basics.
Players are self centred arseholes living on borrowed time at the club. No wonder the effort or camaraderie isn’t there. It’s just appalling really. They should reimburse the fans.
I just don’t get the vitriol for RR, it isn’t on him but these gutless coward players. What the heck was he meant to do, coming into this shit show, with the inept board, a team with bang average players from four managers. Many of whom are running down their contracts and leaving, and they know RR is an interim manager, this shower downed tools long ago and those that didn’t simply aren’t fit to wear the shirt. How can this be blamed on him? What can you do when the players have all the power because the club has elevated them to that status by bowing down and giving ridiculous contracts and renewing those that should have left. Anyone who thinks that this is RR really needs to give their head a wobble, what else was he meant to do.
You don’t think the gap between our midfield and defence being the size of the Atlantic isn’t a coaching issue? Fair enough I guess.
Whats so funny, you hell bent on ignoring the fact that half these players are shite?
Unless there are significant changes to this squad this summer, the most we can expect next season is to qualify for the Europa League. However, it won't be surprising if we finish 8th.
You
You think thats the design or Ralf Rangnick? Or more the players cant be fecked to travel on the pitch. Il give you a hint given its been the same shit under 3 coaches now - its the latter.
It's the players, and the terrible managerial appointments we have made post-Fergie.
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Going to be fascinating seeing how someone like Ten Hag can motivate and coach much of this group. There's some who can't believe we've amassed such a high amount of misfits and I agree it doesn't seem logical but I think quite a few really need to be gone sooner than later.
This season in particular has been such a dumpster fire of all players lacking but' we've struggled to play and create for much of the last 9 years. I believe a casual nature runs through the club for a long time now and no evidence to suggest much has changed, there's been resistance to every new manager and different sets of players allegedly moaning.
We see players come here fit and healthy with a good mentality from their previous club then after a few months are struggling to run or pass, all we see is players looking depressed, faces of grimace and anguish and reluctance to match the opposition. Absolutely wetting themselves in the CL.
I feel Ten Hag is going to need a lot of help in turning the tide in the club.
This season in particular has been such a dumpster fire of all players lacking but' we've struggled to play and create for much of the last 9 years. I believe a casual nature runs through the club for a long time now and no evidence to suggest much has changed, there's been resistance to every new manager and different sets of players allegedly moaning.
We see players come here fit and healthy with a good mentality from their previous club then after a few months are struggling to run or pass, all we see is players looking depressed, faces of grimace and anguish and reluctance to match the opposition. Absolutely wetting themselves in the CL.
I feel Ten Hag is going to need a lot of help in turning the tide in the club.
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