So it's all the managers then, this is not a new thing. Nobody is going to make McT or Fred into competent midfielders. No manager can account for the lack of effort, the lack of goalscoring.
It’s the players, not the manager
- Thread starter VidaRed
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Klopp also gradually weeded out the players he felt weren't up for it, and brought in those who had the worth ethic or proficient fit to adopt his system. It took him a while to make Liverpool contenders. Even he would struggle with this rotten batch of players.
It is not like he did that in 3-4 months... Also, many players were signed and sold/ released.
Not taking anything away from Klopp, he is a great manager, but even he needed time to tune the team and find the right players.
Its a pointless and circular argument. Its the board, end of. Stupid and inconsistent managerial appoinments, scatter gun recruitment with stupid fees and wages, terrible scouting, players renewed when they dont play etc etc. Its Woodward and Glazers, as I saw G Neville calling out this morning. Ralf has been left with little influence and not much he can do as an interim. The whole squad is a mess, the youth system still needs improvement, the training grounds move seems to have been dumped, the ground expansion and revamp disappeared again. Blame the owners. Ole was out of his depth and there was no rebuild or reset. Ronaldo the latest of many appalling decisions and more money wasted. Cavanni has downed tools. This is the mess they created and are now indifferent as to what happens They really dont care much.
Watching Man City play against us was a real eye opener. They were the first to every ball, not only because of their tactical knowhow, but due to the desire and fight they showed. These fecking guys were like they were battling for survival from a relegation spot. They were protecting and wanting to win every ball, not afraid to get muddy and not afraid of showing physicality. We were being bullied at some aspects.
I dont remember who it was, but a Man city player slided from a bit of a distance just to prevent the ball going out for a throw in around the middle of the pitch. Like, why do they need to do that? Why do they need to show that desire and fight? There was no arrogance at all from them expect for the desire to win.
Us, on the other hand? Total opposite. We showed the desire of a team thats already won the league with a 10 point gap. We're not really bothered about winning.
I dont remember who it was, but a Man city player slided from a bit of a distance just to prevent the ball going out for a throw in around the middle of the pitch. Like, why do they need to do that? Why do they need to show that desire and fight? There was no arrogance at all from them expect for the desire to win.
Us, on the other hand? Total opposite. We showed the desire of a team thats already won the league with a 10 point gap. We're not really bothered about winning.
This squad has massive issues in terms of quality and attitude. It's five managers in a row now, who have struggled.
Someone needs to tell me what manager could take yesterday's squad and win that game against City. You have a CB that can only be described as comical, a right-back that is both horrendous on the ball and constantly switches off mentally and two central midfielders that should arguably not be starting for a top half PL side. Add to that average players in many other positions.
The contrast to what City puts on the field is astounding. De Bruyne, Mahrez, Foden, Cancelo and Rodri are all top notch players.
Someone needs to tell me what manager could take yesterday's squad and win that game against City. You have a CB that can only be described as comical, a right-back that is both horrendous on the ball and constantly switches off mentally and two central midfielders that should arguably not be starting for a top half PL side. Add to that average players in many other positions.
The contrast to what City puts on the field is astounding. De Bruyne, Mahrez, Foden, Cancelo and Rodri are all top notch players.
How many players that klopp inherited from the previous manager did he sell ?
I remember Klopp getting to a CL final with Karius in goal, players like Henderson and Milner or Chamberlain in midfield, players like Firmino or even Origi.
When I say that I believe its the manager and not the players - it's because a good manager will get and only utelise the good players, improving some players whilst shifting out the rest. The manager is the biggest thing of the squad, not the players and we haven't had a single world class manager in their prime -
Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick.
You look at that bunch of managers and is it really that surprising that we have been sh*t?
When I say that I believe its the manager and not the players - it's because a good manager will get and only utelise the good players, improving some players whilst shifting out the rest. The manager is the biggest thing of the squad, not the players and we haven't had a single world class manager in their prime -
Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho, Ole and Rangnick.
You look at that bunch of managers and is it really that surprising that we have been sh*t?
How does rangnick get blamed then if he wasn't allowed to buy or sell anyone ?
Because again he isn't a world class manager.
He never was.
Everyone is having ago about Ole and how everyone should have know he was shit - but why do people think Rangnick is great? His CV is shocking and is only famous for creating Gegenpressing and arguably never perfecting Gegenpressing either.
We’ve got the answer and should change topic to; it’s the board of directors, not the players
So you are saying the manager is always responsible because he is the one who brings in players and shifts those that aren't following instructions or upto the task.
But rangnick shouldn't be allowed to buy or sell players and he should still get blamed because he's shit anyways.
Did i sum up your argument correctly because it doesn't seem consistent to me ?
Rangnick is interim for a reason.
If the manager is not always responsible - then who out of Moyes, Van gaal, Mourinho or Ole was not responsible and you thought did well?
I never said the manager can never be responsible, i said the manager isn't responsible in the current predicament. The culture permeating in the dressing room is to throw the manager under the bus, even ole was thrown under the bus when players downed tools. They're doing the same with rangnick.
Player power needs to be addressed and the managers authority needs to be re-established otherwise we'd be here again with the next manager also.
And for me this is because the manager isn't world class.
If we had Klopp, Zidane or Pep would they put them under the bus? Would us fans choose Klopp/ Zidane/Pep or the players?
Again, if we bought in Arteta next season then the chances of the players putting him under the bus is larger than the chances they would do the same with someone like Klopp zidane or Pep.
What exactly has the majority of these players done to make them feel entitled to having a so-called world class manager? The fact that some of them might think this way would reflect more their delusion and attitude towards their profession than their ability as football players.
Plus, I’m pretty sure that after getting coddled for three years by the previous regime, they’d probably attempt to throw a big name under the bus too in order to preserve their own status as Manchester United players.
Players have a contractual and moral obligation to listen to the manager regardless of what they think of him. We know they are humans and all but it's not their place to judge a manager or choose what to listen to or the amount of effort they put. The moment they do that and are allowed to do that then the manager is undermined so don't be surprised if this lot were to throw the next manager under the bus, they are being indulged.
Ralf has his faults but he hasn't had a chance to shape this squad and is going by what he found in situ. He is also coming in to try and rescue a situation that had got so desperate we had to be forced to sack a club legend. These aren't conducive circumstances especially when you are denied reinforcements and have to go with a Championship level midfield and a bunch of clowns in defense.
We are in a difficult position because we hoarded so many useless players that will be leaving in the summer. The same players should have left three or four years ago but we persisted with them so it means we can't dump the real culprits who have an influence over how we play. By God we need a massive clear out because if we keep the same rotten apples they will infect the new players when they come in.
Are you trying to the make the point our players would actually try under these managers based on their reputation?
That might be valid but that's still on the players more than Rangnick. Likewise if they're not performing just because he's an interim. I actually think there's something in the players not bothering with an interim, Fred alluded to it and i think he did so meaning some of his colleagues weren't motivated.
It's not really Rangnicks fault more so the situation. Look at Spurs with Conte and it's the same situation, broken squad that's lost motivation and belief. Not so easy to turn around mid-season.
These players don't deserve a world-class manager. Why would a world-class manager have to deal with this bunch?
Players nowadays earn too much that they think they are really world-class, specially many in the United team.
Players nowadays earn too much that they think they are really world-class, specially many in the United team.
DeBruyne says we can only press for half a game, a little like what Hassenhutl said. People look at us like late stage Mike Tyson: Survive three rounds and he'll punch himself out.
How about concentrate on playing the games infront of you instead of focusing on blaming everything else
Thinskin United
Looks like they have problems with everything these days, of course they're better than alright when club presenting them rewarding contracts.
Just focusing on everything but not actual football. Really tired of supporting this pile of banterpiss.
These guys got Ole the sack, these are the same players who are now coming out with comments I'm looking at my future etc etc, because they don't want to pull there socks up and do what they get paid to do. Mata would have done better yesterday than Pogba who didn't turn up. And as for Maguire jeez how the feck Southgate picks him for England?
It's the players how the feck can they be defended, I'm not putting all of them in the same pot, it's not rocket science to know who's doing OK and who's not.
It's the players how the feck can they be defended, I'm not putting all of them in the same pot, it's not rocket science to know who's doing OK and who's not.
Players think it's the manager
Players leaking to Simon Stone that that they are 'increasingly concerned at the managerial void'
Apparently it was too much to ask for our players to know what the word interim means.
Players leaking to Simon Stone that that they are 'increasingly concerned at the managerial void'
Apparently it was too much to ask for our players to know what the word interim means.
Excuses, excuses. Everyone's starting to realise most of them are overrated, overpaid dross and they don't like it.
All this talk about playing for the manager...how about you play for those who turn up week in and week out to watch you, some maybe even idolise you and help fund your lavish lifestyles?
And even with all that cast aside, play for yourself. Play for your own personal pride. For your profession and because ultimately, its what you get paid to do.
Yesterday's second half was an absolute abomination and I certainly won't be returning to OT this season on the back of it.
And even with all that cast aside, play for yourself. Play for your own personal pride. For your profession and because ultimately, its what you get paid to do.
Yesterday's second half was an absolute abomination and I certainly won't be returning to OT this season on the back of it.
What a City excuse
There has been more than a few shocking moments though: Europa final defeat, SF losses, 5 nil to the scouse etc. What we’re seeing is the spectacular failure of the Woodward/Ole era.
To blame the manager alone for our woeful underperformances at the moment is what the board have been doing for 10 years nearly now.
The general malaise emanated from boardroom level as soon as we lost the magic provided by Ferguson, who at the time of retirement didn’t have to battle against a dressing room packed full of pseudo-superstars and moaners.
The current squad is shocking, the board is shocking, the scouting system is shocking, the only thing not shocking are the results and consistent ‘shocking’ performances from our truly terrible players. Can’t stand them, can’t stand the board. If I could press the reset button and get rid of the bloody lot, even if it means a seismic relegation, I would gladly have that than approaching every bloody game with a mix of dread if we are playing someone half decent or anticipation of another match spent watching us fumble around against so called lesser opposition.
How did it come to this? May 2005 was when the ‘weeds’ were sown - and without the main gardener its spread and spread ever since…..
The general malaise emanated from boardroom level as soon as we lost the magic provided by Ferguson, who at the time of retirement didn’t have to battle against a dressing room packed full of pseudo-superstars and moaners.
The current squad is shocking, the board is shocking, the scouting system is shocking, the only thing not shocking are the results and consistent ‘shocking’ performances from our truly terrible players. Can’t stand them, can’t stand the board. If I could press the reset button and get rid of the bloody lot, even if it means a seismic relegation, I would gladly have that than approaching every bloody game with a mix of dread if we are playing someone half decent or anticipation of another match spent watching us fumble around against so called lesser opposition.
How did it come to this? May 2005 was when the ‘weeds’ were sown - and without the main gardener its spread and spread ever since…..
There must no more toxic atmosphere at any club than at Utd right now , everyone at the club seems miserable to be there and can't wait to get away.
It’s the way it’s phrased as if the season happened to him, not as if he played an active role in some of the worst displays we’ve had this season.
Shaw is one of the best at talking when he’s played alright, he’s full of answers in everything but consistency of performance. At this point we know who Shaw is, at his best he’s a good Left Back but he has spells of poor form that go on too long & are too low.
feck Luke Shaw. Lazy guy.
Get him gone and I think we'd be surprised that no top club wants him.
He'd end up playing for Everton or Galatasaray.
Get him gone and I think we'd be surprised that no top club wants him.
He'd end up playing for Everton or Galatasaray.
He did a shit tonne of buying very quickly and didn't slow down much. He brought in 9 players in his first season - 3 in Jan and 6 in summer. 4 the next season, 5 the next (well over 200m), 4 the next, 4 after that, 5 after that...
Only 5 of those were free or loans.
Liverpool are very good in the market, but Klopp has been able to totally change the team. He certainly hasn't worked with what he's got until he got what he wanted (although there was clear improvement with the system too to be fair). Will we be able to be so drastic? Would require a very different approach if we did, and I imagine that requires more staff changes than just the manager.
If it is the players then it's the manager(s) fault, good managers make good recruitment, it's on our past managers for recruiting and not having the ability to handle players with questionable attitudes and mentalities. Fergie has, pep has, klopp has, even zidane, Ancelotti, tuchel, conte etc..
Literally played every game until he was finally dropped because his performances were shite. He played more than he should have
It really depends of context and situation but usually its on managers, put aside about him bringing/selling players at the end of the day he has final call when it comes to current squad.
In RR case, if all shit is true, seniors cant be bothered because he is interim, they aint hungry, willing to run and so on, he is/was in position to just give chances to young ready or not players and mixed them with some seniors that might have his back, both groups wount achieve a goal but at least you would maybe see some fight. Otherwise, just w8 summer and new manager might come out and say how everyone gets a clean slate to prove them self and we will watch majority of those pricks for another season. Damn, Ole really did a number on us for last 3 years.
In RR case, if all shit is true, seniors cant be bothered because he is interim, they aint hungry, willing to run and so on, he is/was in position to just give chances to young ready or not players and mixed them with some seniors that might have his back, both groups wount achieve a goal but at least you would maybe see some fight. Otherwise, just w8 summer and new manager might come out and say how everyone gets a clean slate to prove them self and we will watch majority of those pricks for another season. Damn, Ole really did a number on us for last 3 years.
He wants to feel wanted at United, huh? Can we presume that, as things stand, he's not getting as big a pay rise as he would like in the new offer? Or, even worse, that Ralf's evaluation of him is that, on 150k p/w, we should expect more of him?
I'm disappointed in him. How quickly people forget. This club stood by him and took good care of him during the darkest period of his career. The vast majority of the fanbase was on his side when Mourinho threw him under the bus. What did we get in return? A good season that "miraculously" coincided with his previous contract renewal?
It seems that some of our players need a reality check. But who's going to give them one? At any other club, Shaw's agent going into the office and asking for a pay rise would look like a comedy sketch. At United, it's a normal day.