I don't understand the prison argument, not allowing food in etc (which in my opinion is complete non sense, there's no hunger crisis in Gaza), surely the Muslim Brotherhood can open the borders of their country and ensure the import of whatever supplies into Gaza, correct? If you blame Israel for such a terrible treatment of Gaza, shouldn't you equally blame Egypt for it? In case you say the expectations of Israel are much higher than what's expected of Egypt, will we ever come to the point where we can finally start talking about the barbaric and inhumane Arab treatment of the Palestinians? Will the evil treatment of Palestinians in Jordan be a subject of international news? Will the Hashemite war crimes of the 1970s ever be discussed? Or the monstrous killings of Fatah members by Hamas? What is this obsession with Israel's military actions against Palestinians whilst the endless killings of Arabs by the hands of other Arabs are largely ignored?
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I don't understand the prison argument, not allowing food in etc (which in my opinion is complete non sense, there's no hunger crisis in Gaza), surely the Muslim Brotherhood can open the borders of their country and ensure the import of whatever supplies into Gaza, correct? If you blame Israel for such a terrible treatment of Gaza, shouldn't you equally blame Egypt for it? In case you say the expectations of Israel are much higher than what's expected of Egypt, will we ever come to the point where we can finally start talking about the barbaric and inhumane Arab treatment of the Palestinians? Will the evil treatment of Palestinians in Jordan be a subject of international news? Will the Hashemite war crimes of the 1970s ever be discussed? Or the monstrous killings of Fatah members by Hamas? What is this obsession with Israel's military actions against Palestinians whilst the endless killings of Arabs by the hands of other Arabs are largely ignored?
Why do Hamas, as the government of Gaza, not use their funds to try and better the lives of the people instead of spending it on missiles to attack Israeli civilians? Also, if they can 'smuggle' in weapons into Gaza, they surely can get essentials they supposedly don't have through the Egypt border?
What would your country do if another turned it into a prison?
They do both
Obama visited Israel prior to the previous election. You didn't interpret his meetings with Israeli politicians as intervention in US politics, did you? Netanyahu preferref a Romney victory, there is little doubt about that. You could say that more importantly, Sheldon Adelson prefers both leaders in their respective countries...
I have to say that Obama didn't do himself any favours here. Avoiding meetings with Netanyahu and not visiting Israel as a president (don't piss off the Arabs, folks) were only another expression of revisionary ME policy that as we well know by now, has been as brilliant as his other "Yes, we can" promises.
Can't explain the Gaza rockets, can it? There are no rockets flying in the WB, and the economy there has never been in a better state.
Civil Administration says settlers purchased Hebron home illegally
Where? When? What are you talking about?
Bollocks. Hundreds of trucks go into the GS on a daily basis, and more could have done so if only Hamas wanted so. Instead, Hamas profits from the tunnel smuggling industry and would rather see everything getting in from there. Astonishingly, Israel still supplies electricity to Gaza which keeps the rocket industry going.
Check your ME map to see that what we have done under similar circumstances was turning this shithole into a prosperous modern country.
BTW, we didn't have a friendly fat bloke with an available key just south of the border.
In an ideal world there would be no collateral damage too.
Does the Gaza population have public bomb shelters, or did Hamas use its available concrete for construction of bunkers for the Fajr missiles aimes at Tel Aviv?
You also had control over your ports in order to allow your economy to grow. Come on, surely you can see that control over your own imports/exports is a huge difference.
Could you describe how Barack 'the military ties between our two countries ha never been stronger' Obama has followed a revisionary ME policy?
I was not talking about the BBC in general but in this specific conflict.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/16/living-by-the-sword.html
Your nation had ports and airports with free acess to the rest of the world, your situation was not equivlent to that of the Palestinians
Netanyahu can talk to Obama any time he wants. Obama does not have to pay homage to the little warmonger. Of course Obama has to repair the damage done to the US by the numbskull Bush in the Arab world. What does it matter what a corrupt loony Casino owner thinks? He would be happy if the entire Palestinian population was exterminated.
Romney would have been a disaster for this country as for the Middle East and for yours btw. But you cant see that. btw 70% of Jews voted for Obama. I'm sure they are all deluded by your analysis.
For a start Israel has to start treating Palestinians as human beings instead of a problem.
It is stupid of them to be shooting rockets into Israel but if Israel treated them as human beings instead of like shit perhaps there could be start to a peace settlement.
Is there any shortage in the WB? How's the conomy doing? Young Israel has developed industry and agriculture. What's the gazan equivalent? Qassam warehouses? UNRWA schools and food supplies?
Who in his right mind would have given Gaza free ports and airports given the political goals of the Palestinians, and Hamas in particular. The Entire Oslo process was a foolish exercise of bringing a Trojan Horse in, and thankfully our suicidal tendencies have mellowed.
Check his bullish approach to Israeli-Palestinian negotiations, leading to Abbas complaining that he made him climb a tree he couldn't get down from (re freezing settlements).
On both accounts you show the margin for error Yanks have but we don't. The last I checked Bibi was responsible for the security of his people and not Obama's campaigns and slogans.
Personally I didn't really care about the US election, so I can't really tell whether US Jews are deluded or not. I don't really care about US politics, and don't really know who of the two was better for the US. I'm not sure Romney would have done anything different from Obama re Iran either.
The Palestinians were allowed access to Israeli ports according to the Paris agreement, a luxury young israel didn't enjoy. Unfortunately, the agreement didn't include the import of weapons, but that's what the tunnel industry is for.
Another women dead from an Israeli bomb.
No reports of any deaths from Israeli bombs in the WB. Not sure what the reason for this is but it could probably be because there weren't any rockets fired at Israel from the WB.
So the people are jut dropping like flies?
If Jerusalem is so holy to the Palestinians, why are they firing rockets at it?
your opposition party correctly accused Netanyahu of interfering in the US elections...and he was. The fact you say Romney would not have handled foreign policy differently highlights your ignorance of the two men. Your PM should just keep quiet and take whatever funds we give you.
As for us Yanks and the rest of the world we can see exactly what your country is doing. This latest 'episode' is as much your government's ignoring the plight of the Palestinians as the stupidity of radicals who sent off those rockets.
Not as much Palestinians are murdered in the WB, but they do endure this sort of behaviour:
Besides, the Palestinians in the WB have learnt the hard way - if they try and resist the violent settlers forcing them out of their homes, then they have to deal with their IDF bodyguards, not exactly an even-matched exchange.
Palestinian death toll as of yet
1- Ahmad Al-Ja’bary, 52 years old.
2-Mohammed Al-hams, 28 years old.
3- Rinan Arafat, 4 years old.
4- Omar Al-Mashharawi, 11 Month old
5-Essam Abu-Alma’za, 20 years old.
6-Mohammed Al-qaseer, 20 years old.
7- Heba Al-Mashharawi, six-month pregnant, 19 years old.
8- Mahmoud Abu Sawawin, 65 years old.
9- Habis Hassan Mismih, 29 years old.
10- Wael Haidar Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
11- Hehsam Mohammed Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
12- Rani Hammad, 29 years old.
13- Khaled Abi Nasser, 27 year old.
14- Marwan Abu Al-Qumsan, 52 years old.
15- Walid Al-Abalda, 2 years old.
16- Hanin Tafesh, 10 months old.
17- Oday Jammal Nasser, 16 years old.
18- Fares Al-Basyouni, 11 years old.
19- Mohammed Sa’d Allah, 4 years old.
20- Ayman Abu Warda, 22 years old.
21- Tahrir Suliman, 20 years old.
22- Ismael Qandil, 24 years old.
23- younis Kamal Tafesh, 55 years old.
24- Mohammed Talal Suliman, 28 years old.
25- Amjad Mohammed Abu-Jalal, 32 years old.
26- Ziyad Farhan Abu-Jalal, 23 years old.
27- Ayman Mohammed Abu Jalal, 44 years old.
28- Hassan Salem Al-Heemla’, 27 years old.
29- Khaled Khalil Al-Shaer, 24 years old.
30- Ayman Rafeeq sleem, 26 years old.
31- Ahmad Abu Musamih, 32 years old.
32- a child from Salah family, name is not confirmed
33- another one killed in an attack on a motorbike in Khanyounis, just now, name isn’t confirmed yet.
34- Ashraf Druiz
35- Osama Abdel Gawad
36-Mohamed Alloulihy
37-Awad Al-nahal
38-Abdul Rahman al-Masri
39-Ali Hassan Saied, 25 years old
40- Ahmad Al-Ja’bary 52 years old.
41-Marwan Abu Al-Qumsan 52 years old.
42- Ashraf Darwish
43-Ali Al-Mana’ma
44-Samaher Koden
1- Ahmad Al-Ja’bary, 52 years old.
2-Mohammed Al-hams, 28 years old.
3- Rinan Arafat, 4 years old.
4- Omar Al-Mashharawi, 11 Month old
5-Essam Abu-Alma’za, 20 years old.
6-Mohammed Al-qaseer, 20 years old.
7- Heba Al-Mashharawi, six-month pregnant, 19 years old.
8- Mahmoud Abu Sawawin, 65 years old.
9- Habis Hassan Mismih, 29 years old.
10- Wael Haidar Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
11- Hehsam Mohammed Al-Ghalban, 31 years old.
12- Rani Hammad, 29 years old.
13- Khaled Abi Nasser, 27 year old.
14- Marwan Abu Al-Qumsan, 52 years old.
15- Walid Al-Abalda, 2 years old.
16- Hanin Tafesh, 10 months old.
17- Oday Jammal Nasser, 16 years old.
18- Fares Al-Basyouni, 11 years old.
19- Mohammed Sa’d Allah, 4 years old.
20- Ayman Abu Warda, 22 years old.
21- Tahrir Suliman, 20 years old.
22- Ismael Qandil, 24 years old.
23- younis Kamal Tafesh, 55 years old.
24- Mohammed Talal Suliman, 28 years old.
25- Amjad Mohammed Abu-Jalal, 32 years old.
26- Ziyad Farhan Abu-Jalal, 23 years old.
27- Ayman Mohammed Abu Jalal, 44 years old.
28- Hassan Salem Al-Heemla’, 27 years old.
29- Khaled Khalil Al-Shaer, 24 years old.
30- Ayman Rafeeq sleem, 26 years old.
31- Ahmad Abu Musamih, 32 years old.
32- a child from Salah family, name is not confirmed
33- another one killed in an attack on a motorbike in Khanyounis, just now, name isn’t confirmed yet.
34- Ashraf Druiz
35- Osama Abdel Gawad
36-Mohamed Alloulihy
37-Awad Al-nahal
38-Abdul Rahman al-Masri
39-Ali Hassan Saied, 25 years old
40- Ahmad Al-Ja’bary 52 years old.
41-Marwan Abu Al-Qumsan 52 years old.
42- Ashraf Darwish
43-Ali Al-Mana’ma
44-Samaher Koden
My PM would do whatever he think is best for his people. I didn't have high hopes of Romney regarding Iran because I think a changing administratoin would have taken time adjusting when decisions need to be made pretty soon.
I admit I don't share your ability predicting the future, and what would have been had Romney been elected. But then you know that it's the "radicals" that lob rockets on our cities, and the poor Palestinans suffer as a result. Reading is easier than predicting the future. Try that and you'll find that those "radicals" were democratically elected by no other than the Palestinians.
Thankfully the White House, Senate and Congress know the score.
Suggestions of a ceasefire being not far away. Which will be nice short term and will change nothing long term, until next time.
you should take your own advice about reading. Nothing about predicting the future. Romney showed how clueless he was in the Foreign policy debate. You just have watch the video. He also showed his immense ignorance on the subject throughout the campaign.
So why do you think they elected 'radicals'? In short it is all the Palestinians fault and not Israels I see.
When push comes to shove Americans will rightly side with Israel. But it takes courage to reach out and to make the peace. Your past leaders have done that...Netanyahu cannot be counted among them.
Yeah, so much that they veto any diplomatic initiatives the Palestinians pursue via the UN, taking them back to square one. Obama needs to wise up this term and realise that a lot of this blood is on his country's hands and their refusal to handle this impartially. If he stopped listening to AIPAC and various other lobbyists and actually brought his thinking in line with the rest of the world then we might not have this violence.
A true Yank, that Romney bloke. Seriously, a serving president will laways have an edge in those debates.
I think I answerd this question earlier in the thread. I am not interested in rights and wrongs here, if I'm honest. I expect my government to do EVERYTHING it can to stop rocket fire on its citizens.
Bollocks. For a Likud leader he went a long way by giving the Bar Ilan speech, recognizing the right of the Palestinians for an independent state.
I know exactly what the world thinks of Hamas. That's the US, UN, EU and Russia.
Nice diversion. Remind me what the world thinks about settlements and a Palestinian state? US, UN EU and Russian included.
lame. Obama was able to articulate foreign policy better than a long time Senator in 2008. Romney articulating what he would do had nothing whatsoever with him having experience.
So it is all the Palestinians fault.. right.
Giving a speech and following up with actions are two different things. I am not excusing the Palestinians by any means. Its takes two to make the peace.
To be fair RD, Obama hasn't exactly differed too much in regards to Israel/Palestine compared to his predecessor, bar a few condescending speeches in the Arab world about "reaching out to the Muslim world". He needs to prove himself in his second term.
I will agree he has not involved himself in the Middle east too much in his first term for obvious reasons. His hands have been full just dragging us out of this recession. I think he will have to broker the peace somehow. Lets hope so.
holyland red
I can accept your point of view if you can honestly say Israel has also contributed to the current situation over there.
It is not all the Palestinians fault.
I can accept your point of view if you can honestly say Israel has also contributed to the current situation over there.
It is not all the Palestinians fault.
How could it be all the Palestinians fault?? Surely that's a mental idea!
The problem isnt that he hasn't been involved too much, the problem he's been involved in all the wrong ways.
If he wants to do a more impartial job of it then for starters we need less of this:
Barack Obama 'will veto' Palestinian UN bid
US vetoes UN condemnation of Israeli settlements
And saying shit like: "Jerusalem is the undisputed capital of Israel" isnt exactly helping the peace process either. He needs to stop pretending he's playing the neutral arbiter and actually play the neutral arbiter...if he isn't scared of upsetting his lobbyists that is.