Can anyone educate me about why the ceasefire stopped? As I understand it's related to this allegedly kidnapped soldier. However I'm confused as to what exactly he was doing when he was kidnapped.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
It wasn't really a proper ceasefire to begin with. It apparently stipulated that neither side would be able to advance beyond their current positions, but that Israel would be allowed to continue tunnel busting on territory it currently occupied.
It's not just about the soldier being seized, as a suicide bomber blast near several soldiers killed two and severely injured two more. In the mayhem, the fifth was taken. Apparently chances are they took a body rather than a live one.
Where were those soldier though and what were they doing?
All I can do is quote Israeli websites, that say the Israeli soldiers were searchng for tunnel entrances, about a mile into the Gaza strip. Unfortunately the entrance found them...
What were they planning to do once they found the tunnel entrances? I don't get this at all. Surely ceasefire would mean they stop doing all that stuff for 72 hours.
the ceasefire just stopped any offensive operation, but allowed Israel to continue their defensive operations. Apparently this soldiers were trying to destroy a tunnel, which was still allowed according to the deal.
Defensive operations inside Gaza strip? Sounds like clever use of words to me.
Not this cease fire. They were allowed to bust the tunnels during the 'cease fire'.
Sounds a bit stupid to me to allow that during a "cease fire". Fair enough if it was outside Gaza but from what Amir said, it was inside Gaza. Does that mean Hamas could go to Israel and destroy Israeli artillery in a "defensive operation"?
If one party can continue taking action, while the other remains where it is, that is not a ceasefire... It was patently obvious to anyone with a functioning pair of eyes that it was doomed to failure.
obviously. A ceasefire that still allows shooting is not really a ceasefire. Still it was part of the agreement that both parties are allowed to hold their ground and it allowed the israeli military to continue specific operations; e.g. destroying tunnels, rockets or weapons. They just committed to stop killing people associated with hamas.
No, as far as I know the permission for Israel about continuing the operation of destroying tunnels was very specific, not anything that comes under "defensive operation".
One other thing, if the problem with the tunnels is that they lead into Israel... surely it would be easier for Israeli army to find and destroy them from the Israeli side of the blockade?
Egypt recognised Israel as part of there peace deal, not before, the same will apply to Hamas. Insisting on it as a [re condition is just Isreal blocking any negotiation
Given the history of anti-semitism, the implanting of it within Christianity (Jews killed Christ etc.) and Islam, of course it's not outlandish. Question is how much does it take to bring it to the surface. Not much.
What if they haven't been dug through completely?
Exactly.
Worrying, seeing as Sadat was murdered by the Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas's overlords.
Fair point. This is probably me being silly but I see on Time Team (lol) that they use ground penetrating radar to see what's underground, is this not something that they could use in Israel?
U.N. condemns Israel, U.S. for not sharing Iron Dome with Hamas
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/un-condemns-israel-us-not-sharing-iron-dome-hamas/
Are they having a laugh? The UN really should be ashamed its Human Rights council is such a biased joke. This really puts to shame what should be an important purpose. Such an irrelevant body.
UN is a totally useless body.
With all due respect, I doubt you've stumbled across a solution to the threat of tunnels that hasn't yet occurred to anyone in Israel. If they could remove the threat of tunnels without setting foot outside Israel they'd already have done it.
If you think about it, Hamas has probably dug all sorts of tunnel networks to help them move through Gaza unseen. It's their best form of protection, especially as the human shield thing doesn't appear to work. If I were them I'd have been digging out an underground city for the past 10 years.
Rabin didnt make it as far as signing a peace deal before he was murdered
I don't really understand this tunnel business - with modern seismic equipment and 100m probes you should be able to detect a desert rat burrowing.
Exactly. Religion is driving the agenda, badly.
Certainly seems like they have. There are far more many tunnels than just the ones leading to Israel.
If that is true,then will it make any difference to Hamas even if Israel bombs the shit out of Gaza other than just give them more propaganda material and a willing new generation to continue the same strategy? Surely if Hamas people are hiding in tunnels then the whole bombing exercise isn't going to work right?
U.N. condemns Israel, U.S. for not sharing Iron Dome with Hamas
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/un-condemns-israel-us-not-sharing-iron-dome-hamas/
Are they having a laugh? The UN really should be ashamed its Human Rights council is such a biased joke. This really puts to shame what should be an important purpose. Such an irrelevant body.
I thought this was satire. Or a hacked website.
The article indicates criticims at both, but silly criticism really. Why should any of that technology be shared by the US or Israel with anyone other than who they want to share it with?
doesnt really make a difference. Israel will benefit short term and after that Hamas will have new weapons. The Egyptian boarder is just not sealed. You can kill terrorists and destroy weapons, but as long as people believe in the wrong things, there will be new terrorists with new weapons.
A political problem always needs a political solution.
Egypt was not constituted as a nation dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Hamas, which is not a nation but can be thought of as a ideological/religious organized in Palestine, is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The analogy isn't perfect but one can say that as Egypt is to Israel as Hamas is to Likud. But the radicalism -- or extremism, if you will -- of Hamas far exceeds anything the Likud has ever advocated. Hamas demands the destruction of Israel; Likud, as hostile as it is to the Palestinian people, does not expressly rule out the possibility of an independent Palestinian state.
Hamas cannot accept the possibility of a peaceful, mutually prosperous relationship with Israel. Doing so would undermine the central reason for its existence and is no more likely to happen than Pope Francis praising Lucifer.
And even if Israel were led to believe that Hamas would entertain the possibility of its right to exist, how far can negotiations go after Israel asks Hamas leaders whether Israel has a right to exist and the answer is no?
Reasonable minds can differ as to whether the UN should have enabled the existence of Israel. But here we are today and there is no way that Israelis are going to willingly give up what has been their home for more than 60 years. A two-state solution of some kind is an absolutely necessity for that reconciliation to happen, but as long as Hamas -- as currently constituted -- is in control of Gaza that the notion that there will ever be a two-state solution is beyond reach.
Were Hamas to reject its founding principles, the possibility of a reconciliation is within reach.
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Nothing but a full scale ground assault won't be bothering Hamas. But that's out of the question. We don't want to control Gaza again. But we do at least have to destroy the tunnels leading to Israel which are an immediate risk. This isn't about how Hamas will feel, but what has to be done.
Hamas would have its legs cut off at the knees if Israel initiated the negotiation of a two-state solution.
Agreed. The tunnels have to be destroyed. There is no humanitarian purpose for the tunnels; they exist solely for the purpose of attacking, and ultimately destroying, Israel.
For those who wish to see Israel continue to exist, the destruction of the tunnels from Gaza must be destroyed. For those who have no problem with Israel being destroyed and its people driven out of the region, there is no objection to these tunnels.
For those who wish to see Israel continue to exist, the destruction of the tunnels from Gaza must be destroyed. For those who have no problem with Israel being destroyed and its people driven out of the region, there is no objection to these tunnels.
Exactly. Hamas will never agree to a two-state solution. Whatever succeeds Hamas as the controlling political organization in Gaza may agree to a two-state solution, but Hamas as we know it today cannot.
Hamas agreeing to recognise Israel will gain nothing, Fatah have recognised Israel and they've had nothing in return, as I said it's a bullshit precondition, one designed to stifle negotiations
Reconginsing Israel for the possibility of reconciliation cost Israel nothing, recognition as part of reconciliation is a fair deal
Again, with this misnomer of Hamas wanting to rid Israel, are you purposely ignoring my posts?