They seem all to happy arming the Islamist nutters who make of a nuisance of nations that don't play ball with their global agenda.
Israeli - Palestinian Conflict
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
They seem all to happy arming the Islamist nutters who make of a nuisance of nations that don't play ball with their global agenda.
I meant condemnation from other Muslims. I live in London and you'd be surprised by how many sympathised with it but let's not get into that, that's a can of worms that'd derail this thread.
Forget just terrorist attacks in Europe, what about what happens elsewhere and how non muslims are treated in many Islamic States?
I reckon you're more attuned to the lay of the land than I am but it only takes a small amount of radioactive material to cause massive contamination. That can come from a variety of sources. one would hope that the close proximity of the combatants in Israel and Gaza means that no one would seriously entertain such an idea.
I went to a protest last weekend in your city - protesting the treatment of Christians being prosecuted by ISIS. Thousands turned up - half of them Muslims, including an Islamic cleric:
Many Muslims have also declared outrage at the deaths of thousands of Syrians. I've got into many heated discussions with Muslims regarding that very conflict. So yes, the outrage is there.
In mainstream media, sure. In social media the exact opposite is true. I know that the indignation is righteous but I can never remember anything like as much outrage from people using social media in Ireland than I've seen with this conflict. It's all utterly one-sided too. Not a hint of nuance.
I'm being devil's advocate here and not really sure where I'm going with this. I guess I just think there's a relish with which people give Israel a kicking that might hint at darker ulterior motives. Possibly even sub-consciously?
I'd like to think not.
But going back to the original issue of Israel's survival, I still don't see it being an issue. You could argue that Pakistani militants could get a hold of nuclear weapons, though you wouldn't start leveling Islamabad to the ground to prevent that risk.
Why would the subconscious of people on twitter be antisemitic? It's a pretty outlandish claim.
Anti-semitism is very much real but to use it as the reasoning from people's main objection to Israel's policies is outlandish.
Its like suggesting that people who are opposed to ISIS are Islamophobic.
Its like suggesting that people who are opposed to ISIS are Islamophobic.
It is outlandish but not completely implausible. I quite like the theory that people perceive Israel as being more like "us" so they feel more indignation when they go rogue but, in a way, that's implying everyone is subconsciously a little racist. Which is just as outlandish!
Yeah, it's an unlikely scenario. They've been talking about dirty bombs all over for years and I don't think we've ever seen one used anywhere.
This is almost always the way with social media outrage. It becomes "cool" to oppose something so everyone does it. Maybe a few people give it a quick google, most probably don't. It's also a much easier stance to justify, any hint of mid-ground competitively looks like you're lending justification to Israel's actions so no one bothers.
This, I think, is almost certainly true. We're ("the west") in no small way responsible for the carving up of the Levant too, so there's latent guilt associated with that.
Completely agree. That would be absurd.
I never mentioned anti-semitism as the main reason for people objecting. Just as a reason behind them objecting less passionately when atrocities occur elsewhere. That and to highlight that if anti-semitism remains a real and global issue, it does help explain why Israel is so bloody paranoid and reactionary (without, obviously, justify or condoning their actions).
I've not really noticed that much of a one-sided polarity to how social media has depicted this.
My Facebook feed for instance is filled with posts defending Israel's position.
My Facebook feed for instance is filled with posts defending Israel's position.
This is the big elephant. Anybody who thinks this conflict isn't drenched in religion is either deluded or strategic.
That's interesting. Where are you based?
Anyone who dared say that on my facebook feed (in Ireland) would immediately be attacked from all sides. Might just be because none of my friends (or friends of friends) are Jewish (not that I can think of, anyway)
Shit, maybe I'm anti-semitic too?!?
At the moment, just outside London. Bearing in mind the friends I've amassed in social media are from all parts of the world - Namely the Middle East, North America and South East Asia.
Interestingly enough a lot the Israeli apologists were from the Middle East (though predominantly Kurdish) and less predictably - from North America. My Asian friends/colleagues/acquaintances are pretty much split on the matter. The Europeans I know are pretty much apathetic and opt for the "condemn both sides" angle.
I'm of course generalising. Though it shows (at least from a personal perspective) that its not all one sided in the Social Networking battleground.
Interesting.
Of course, in a conflict where you have a tehcnologically advanced wealthy nation infringing human rights, denying territory and food to a smaller, poorer neighbour it's not hard to understand why Irish people would immediately default to sympathise with the Palestines.
Aren't there hardly any jews in Ireland full stop?
Relatively few. Always been very well accepted, mind you. If you've read Ulysses you're probably aware of our most famous Jew!
Leopold Bloom and Alan Shatter.
I've tried.
As his acolyte said: 'Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better'.
Yeah, it's Paddy O'Gorman and his little dog all the way here alright.
So a few thousand Muslims turned up, so that somehow contradicts what I've said about the treatment of none muslims in the vast majority of Muslims countries? I mean really?I went to a protest last weekend in your city - protesting the treatment of Christians being prosecuted by ISIS. Thousands turned up - half of them Muslims, including an Islamic cleric:
Many Muslims have also declared outrage at the deaths of thousands of Syrians. I've got into many heated discussions with Muslims regarding that very conflict. So yes, the outrage is there.
There are many similarities in pakistan and israel. Both created with the help of britain on religious lines. Its not surprising the region between both these countries is in chaos. Source of todays terrorism can be traced to both these countries.
There are far more differences so I don't think it's helpful to compare the two.
Apparently I do need to get caught up on the news. Can you point me to the event or statement in which the following in its founding charter was repudiated?
If these and other similar statements in Hamas Charter have been repudiated and that Hamas truly wishes a peaceful, mutually prosperous coexistence with Israel, could you please document that claim with verifiable sources? Thanks!
Reports coming in that Israel is about to bomb another hospital...
They are targeting ambulances too according to Oxfam.
Anywhere I can follow this in real time?
Thanks.
There are two paths for any discussion about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: 1) the historical path and the 2) "where do we go from here" path.
It's absolutely appropriate to question whether Israel has a right to exist. For me, the answer is clearly that Israel does have a right to exist. But I respect the view of others who disagree. Everyone knows the history -- the UN declared a partition plan in 1947 and Israel declared its existence in 1948 and neighboring nations attacked it on all sides immediately thereafter. War is hell and atrocities were committed by all parties in the conflict, including Israel. The threat oif destruction continued for decades.
Peace with Egypt was reached, which demonstrated Israel's willingness and capacity to reach peace with a willing partner for peace.
But those who object to Israel's right to exist maintain their struggle. So as much as it is quite appropriate to condemn Israel for acts of violence as it defends itself, it cannot be denied that some within the Palestinian political universe still maintain the position that Israel has no right to exist and that it will all means necessary to effectuate that fundamental goal.
That's the historical path.
As for the "where do we go from here path" -- both sides have work to do. Israel with the settlements, of course; but Hamas has to accept Israel's right to exist and it has to repudiate all previous expressions of intent to destroy Israel. You can't expect Israel to negotiate a lasting peace with an organization that does not repudiate its mandate to destroy it.
U.N. condemns Israel, U.S. for not sharing Iron Dome with Hamas
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/un-condemns-israel-us-not-sharing-iron-dome-hamas/
Are they having a laugh? The UN really should be ashamed its Human Rights council is such a biased joke. This really puts to shame what should be an important purpose. Such an irrelevant body.
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/un-condemns-israel-us-not-sharing-iron-dome-hamas/
Are they having a laugh? The UN really should be ashamed its Human Rights council is such a biased joke. This really puts to shame what should be an important purpose. Such an irrelevant body.
This thing could completely boil over in the next 24-48 hours.
U.N. condemns Israel, U.S. for not sharing Iron Dome with Hamas
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/1/un-condemns-israel-us-not-sharing-iron-dome-hamas/
Are they having a laugh? The UN really should be ashamed its Human Rights council is such a biased joke. This really puts to shame what should be an important purpose. Such an irrelevant body.
The headline is misleading as the criticism was directed at the US, not Israel.
Is it?
“There is a strong possibility that international law has been violated, in a manner that could amount to war crimes,” she said, Breitbart reported.
The U.N. group listed among its reasons for making that claim that Israel outright refused to share its Iron Dome with the “governing authority” of Gaza — which is Hamas, Breitbart reported. Ms. Pillay also condemned the United States for helping to fund the Iron Dome for Israel, but not granting any such accommodations to those in Gaza.
I think the US should have given Japan an atomic bomb as well.
If there is an actual quote from Pillay then fair enough. I have my doubts though as Breitbart isn't exactly unbiased and the only quote I can find about Iron Dome is about the US, not Israel.