Me too. Cos if the answer is feck all, then it opens the question what exactly is the point of the UN ?
much bigger things now in play I think.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Me too. Cos if the answer is feck all, then it opens the question what exactly is the point of the UN ?
much bigger things now in play I think.
All it really does is provide cover for individual states to impose sanctions. I think in this instance the impact on media reporting may be a bigger impact as there's a level of the criticism being legitimised. It's not just tiktok and college students as some have tried to portray in other threads, because dead babies lolz.
The UN is a perennial joke. It's useful for specific stuff like aid beyond that some people confuse it some sort world wide goverments of sorts.
Pure propaganda.
This won't change a thing and the US will keep funding them and giving weapons etc...
People often make similar statements about international law of armed conflicts, saying it doesn't really work - and whilst I'd agree that the impact of international law in general and the UN in particular is often overblown, we must also recognise what the alternative would be i.e. countries being able to do whatever they want. Think about a conflict as brutal as the Hundred Years' War with modern technology. You can kill whoever you want, you can loot whatever city you invade, you can rape whoever you want etc.
I am not saying the UN and international law are perfect - far from it. But I think it's also worth remembering that the alternative is far less appealing in my eyes.
The difference this time is that the US didn't veto. It's actually quite significant in the directive (ceasefire) but it remains to be seen what happens thereafter (decolonization of the WB and reconstruction of Gaza).
It's more than symbolism. Whilst Israel has always, in its recent history, acted against the UN's various resolutions, it has never been in this situation before where the US is stepping aside (due to global demand) at the SC. And due to that same global demand, Israel has never been more isolated. It has no choice but to back off, or, if not that, then accept North Korea status incrementally.
It's more than symbolism. Whilst Israel has always, in its recent history, acted against the UN's various resolutions, it has never been in this situation before where the US is stepping aside (due to global demand) at the SC. And due to that same global demand, Israel has never been more isolated. It has no choice but to back off, or, if not that, then accept North Korea status incrementally.
The UN also wouldn't be able to stop the scenario of countries doing whatever they want, mainly because of the security council. Ultimately, the global order is still fundamentally an anarchic dominance hierarchy where superpowers can generally do what they want and those below them are increasingly constrained when those above them oppose their actions.
The UN, much like all other international or supranational organizations are therefore merely setup to drive the interests of the superpowers (or in the case of the EU, the largest member states), while giving smaller nations a false impression that they are a part of a democratic process.
The scenario you're describing is more in sync with a world government. In that situation, countries would literally not be able to do whatever they want because power wouldn't be at the nation state level; but rather at the surpanational level. We are decades away from that ever becoming a viable reality. Until such time, the international system will remain anarchic with superpowers (and those who ally themselves with them) regining supreme.
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It comes down to image. After a while, that can lead to boycott campaigns (not the previous ones, but internationally led campaigns). Israel's image has taken an absolute beating, as is exactly appropriate (inverse to its actions).
Stand with Israel's right to defend itself and Ukraine's right to do the same where Israel's right to defend itself is "Russian aggression" in a different landscape. That was always going to be a huge problem. You cannot manage it with propaganda. It's an outright contradiction.
Stand with Israel's right to defend itself and Ukraine's right to do the same where Israel's right to defend itself is "Russian aggression" in a different landscape. That was always going to be a huge problem. You cannot manage it with propaganda. It's an outright contradiction.
I don't disagree, but that isn't the only alternative. In fact that's probably the most extreme alternative. Instead, a long overdue and desirable path is the reformation of the UN Security Council, it's been dysfunctional for decades and the instances in which it was effective were exceptions. As long as it survives in its current form its primary purpose will be to serve as a useful tool for the advancement of 5 countries' foreign policies.
It seems the Israelis aren’t taking the news well
Anti-semitic! anti-semitic!!
Does this word has even a truthful meaning anymore?
Does this word has even a truthful meaning anymore?
It does but it loses a lot if not all of its meaning when used by Israeli officials or for purposes of propaganda.
Why are the US calling it non-binding? Aren’t SC resolutions by definition legally binding?
They mean the ceasefire bit non binding, they want to get away on word technicality as it does not specify period (it does not say permeant ceasefire).
MJ popcorn emoji
Rarely you see applauds in the security council.
Modern day Nazi's fuming...but I doubt this will change anything.
It does not change much, the only thing it does, it delegitimises their war.
Really pathetic from the US. And pathetic gaslighting trying to make it seem like it’s the fault of China and Russia.
Is there an Palestine/Israel explanation for dummies anywhere on the internet? An impartial one.
From another camera, see when they slap the child, they turn to the seller and tell him to be silent.
Makes you wonder how much Israel / Israelis made up in the immediate aftermath of Oct 7th.
It makes me wonder little to be honest. Lot of BS beside the reality of more than 1000 deaths, that is horrible enough
Exactly. But it feels a lot more was fabricated and embellished whilst the rest of the world was still reeling from the news to give Israel carte blanche to do whatever it wanted to Palestinians. To be honest, it’s part of Israel’s MO. Lie, obfuscate, deflect and the truth eventually comes out down the line. The death of Shireen springs to mind.
United States has handled this horrificly. Biden is a disgrace. Imagine this being his legacy. Disgusting.
I wrote on October 9h that I wished Netanyahu was dead...
still can't fathom how the lives of so many people are in his hands.
his voters should all be lobotomized as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that scores of people will die for absolutely nothing,
the fact that Israel will turn into another Russia...
it was there to be seen by all.
I really don't understand (I do, but can't accept it) how people in Israel thought that the state could get away with it forever.
Not talking about the religious ones, they are beyond the point of having a discussion,
but the part of the public that is meant to "be like me", not necessarily with the same political stances but with the same logic, same eyes, some sense of humanity...
alas... nope.
still can't fathom how the lives of so many people are in his hands.
his voters should all be lobotomized as far as I'm concerned.
The fact that scores of people will die for absolutely nothing,
the fact that Israel will turn into another Russia...
it was there to be seen by all.
I really don't understand (I do, but can't accept it) how people in Israel thought that the state could get away with it forever.
Not talking about the religious ones, they are beyond the point of having a discussion,
but the part of the public that is meant to "be like me", not necessarily with the same political stances but with the same logic, same eyes, some sense of humanity...
alas... nope.
Netanyahu? and ample majority of Israel population supports it. He is just carrying the will of his people
Yes, but I'm not sure one can unedrstand the effect he has on his people when one doesn't live here.
Nevermind, not sure it's worth discussing that much.
I just wish I was born in Costa Rica, or that I would someday find immigration more feasable.
They're taking it well. Maybe they expected the US to join them in the invasion of Rafah ?
I doubt it would be much different without netanyahu. Israel society would evolve to that point little bit little more with or without him IMO. As you said not much point to discuss. just hypoteticals
May we see a free Palestine in our lifetime. I hope all the politicians who have supported the apartheid state be reminded of their shame forever (not that it will make much difference to them)
On the contrary, there's too few people on this thread who can explain the internal mechanisms of the Israeli society as well as why this psychopathic Teflon Don managed to politically survive this long and get such a hold on a notable part of the population. And we badly need them.
My own theory is that the Israel got drunk from its own success and kind of sleepwalked into it. It somehow convinced itself that security at the expense of the Palestinians was the way to go. Why shouldn't they? The power balance is so utterly in favor of the Israelis. They were economically, technologically and militarily more advanced, had the unconditional backing of those who matter on the international scene, which in a perverse way comforted them that they couldn't do anything wrong. And even if they did, there wouldn't be any consequence.
Another important factor, maybe the most crucial, is that the militarization of the society and decades long of occupation and expansion, slowly poisoned the mind of an ever growing part of the Israelis and largely contributed to its radicalization. It convinced them that somehow what they've been doing and still do the Palestinians is actually justified and all in all, normal.
Netanyahu is only the tip of the iceberg, and a Ben Gvir or a Smotrich don't pop out of nowhere. I also don't see the tendency reversing in the coming years.
I also don't think that the Israelis are the first society that fell into in this trap and got lulled into a false sense of security. The colonial societies, the slavery based American society, the French at the eve of the 1789 revolution, the South African under the Apartheid, to mention a few, did the exact same mistake. And it always ends the same way.
There's also the Native American or Aboriginal Australian route, which is still on the cards.
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