Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to celebrate rare back-to-back victories for Manchester United! They analyse the late win in the Europa League vs. Rangers and then try and find things to analyse in a pretty dour game vs. Fulham. They also chat about the latest Marcus Rashford news, and look at the latest transfer news.
I don't see a scenario, where Palestinians would be displaced from Gaza as possible, realistic and desirable. Where would they go? And for Israel it is critical to maintain at least status quo relationship with Egypt. I am not sure what will be the day after arrangements in Gaza after war ends. But I am almost sure it will include Palestinians. I consider an idea that there is a well-thought-out Israeli plan to return to Gaza as complete nonsense. For sure there are some fringe lunatics who might have such dreams on Israeli side but that will never materialize.
John Kirby "They protect civillains more than us".
Quite clearly the US army is rife with militant anti semitism. We found em boys.
Follow up about the selling of Palestinian land in Toronto.
That visegrad24 account is run by some right wing loony.
Yeah, but for a time people were uncritically posting their tweets as if they were a legitimate news source.
UN said:
Israel doing their best to regurgitate more of their rape propaganda through a UN representative this time.
Sure we’ll be reading lots more articles pumping this story out in the next day or two. Stenographers at the ready.
Not sure what this means.
What is this supposed to mean?
I don't know why is regurgitating, if there is rape, is rape, no matter who does it. And if it is the UN representative, at least is a bit more reliable.
I don't find out of this word that in October 7th there was raping. feck, they were killing and kidnapping innocent people, I don't think they draw any line.
But nothing, not even rape, warrants what is happening now
Is absolutely the key point.
Absolutely right. There was obviously rape and torture alongside the brutal murders and kidnappings. I can't remember anybody disputing that in here. What was disputed and thankfully debunked was the beheading of babies and small children. Biden said he saw pictures of some of the scenes and victims which the White House eventually walked back and apologised for.
Sadly by then it was too late and the damage had been done because to some it just confirmed the rumours and conspiracy theories they already believed and wanted to believe. Even now you still see people who believe it to be the gospel truth throwing it back during arguments and then refusing to accept it was debunked numerous times by reputable media outlets.
As you rightly say though, nothing warrants much of what has happened since or is still continuing now.
It still gets posted semi-regularly in the Russia thread.
Unfortunately there are lots of people who do believe that the more gruesome horror stories matter. That's why they are relitigated all the time.
The timing is notable as well. It comes after Israel is finally under a bit of pressure due to the food aid massacres. Can’t be coincidence.
It means that Israeli institutions have been pushing a narrative ever since October 7th that Hamas perpetrated wide spread sexual violence, rapes, gang rapes etc. They do this to help justify their genocidal actions since. The evidence for this wide spread sexual violence is flimsy at best when put under proper scrutiny.
Now Israel invites a UN mission team over with no investigative mandate and no experience of investigating such crimes knowing that they will parrot whatever lines they are given. If you read this UN report, they state that they just have to go on the information they were given by these Israeli institutions. Institutions like ZAKA who have already been widely discredited for disinformation. They also explain that Israel still refuses to let UN investigative teams examine the veracity of their claims.
You will see the propaganda machine in full effect now where how this UN mission is reported on by the media, will be somewhat different to the reality of the UN mission report itself and what it actually says.
This was a completely insane, genuinely Trumpian thing that we are just supposed to forget about.
Yep.
Sexual assaults likely have happened but as long as it's only investigated by organizations like ZAKA, people have the right to doubt it. Also, interestingly, the report mentions sexual violence against men and women in the West Bank not even Gaza which most likely won't be mentioned in the media. If people think this is anything but genocidal propaganda that recycles the same thing to paint certain narratives, they aren't paying attention.
It's not.
There's a noticeable pattern of welcome distractions whenever Israel is in a (relative) pinch. After the ICJ case, you get the UNRWA accusations. After the Flour Massacre and the NYT being torn apart for letting a former Israeli intelligence member spread lies under their umbrella, you get this. Wait for the next one.
That's propaganda in its full glory and the reason why I don't give the slightest credit about anything coming out from the mainstream media.
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Exactly. What are the chances they will revive the baby beheading stories next time they are in trouble? Israel has had lying as a core pillar in their communication strategy since well before October 7th.
Obviously, there are actors on the other side also trying to win the war of public opinion. But it's notable that all mainstream media outlets in the West are generally on Team Israel.
The corpse knowingly lied, which shouldn't come as a surprise by now.
That's the thing though, lies spread faster than the truth and last longer, especially when relayed by "reputable" sources. Once out, there's no coming back, especially in our day and age. Rape is one of the most repulsive crimes a human being can commit. It (rightly) winds people up and goes so well with the "Arabs=Medieval Rapists" for those who currently see them as a plague, and there are many.
Not saying it didn't happen on 10/7, I'm personally convinced that there were legit many rape cases, which definitely are a war crime and atrocity. However it's so much easier to frame 10/7 as a bunch of rabid human animals breaking out of their cage to rape and kill because duh, that's what they do if you give them an inch of freedom. Hence the need to keep them in check, and put them down hard if necessary.
And suddenly, killing them, their females and offspring becomes a necessity accepted by the many.
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This is the problem with this thread and social media in general. Israel is treated to a completely different standard.
- Israeli woman says she has been raped. You're a liar! Prove it!
- IDF finds Hamas tunnels. You're a liar! Prove it!
- "Flour Massacre" caused by stampede. You're a liar! Prove it!
- Hamas rocket hit the Al Ahli hospital. You're a liar! Prove it!
- UN says Israeli woman likely raped on 10/7. Lies! ISRAELI PROPAGANDA!
Hamas Ministry of Health...
- 30,000 dead. No need for verification this is obvious entirely accurate.
- "Pallywood" movie scenes. No need for verification this is obvious entirely accurate.
I am not trying to defend Israel here. I am just saying that there is a blatant double standard where everything from the Palestinian/Hamas side is treated as "the gospel", while anything from Israel is immediately thrown out as lies and Israeli propaganda.
Is there not just the smallest possibility that Hamas would "bake" their numbers to ensure maximum condemnation of Israel and to further their own cause and interests? Is it not a bit curious that they are so sure 30,000 people have been killed, but not so sure about how many Israeli hostages are alive?
This is 100% accurate description.
Imagine if I had posted something like this....immediate thread ban! But it's all fine here.
If you found out a female friend or colleague was raped. Would you ask her for proof? No, probably not.
But if it's an Israeli woman. Yes of course, she cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
But if it's an Israeli woman. Yes of course, she cannot be trusted to tell the truth.
If you found out 40 babies were beheaded. Would you ask for proof? Yes, you probably would.
But if it's an Israeli claim. You have to run with it in all the pro-Zionist media, and get POTUS to parrot the claim before looking into proof.
The number of war crimes admitted by those scumbags is staggering.
There is a lot going on here, but I will give it a go anyway.
1) I literally just wrote that there are bad actors on both sides that are trying to win the war of public opinion. Of course there is also exaggeration and lies on the pro-Palestinia side. But it is notable that you once again decide to compare Israel to Hamas, which you would think wouldn't be flattering for Israel.
2) You won't find a post of mine in this thread that says that I don't think rapes were committed on October 7th. Actually I think it's highly likely. I'm casting doubt on why it is coming up again now - I think it has something to do with Israel being under a bit of international pressure for once.
3) On the 30,000 dead this is always qualified with the "Hamas led Ministry of Health" in Western media, which is meant to cast some doubt on the numbers. However, given the pictures of destruction we have seen, the number of bombs Israel says they have dropped, the population density, and the ability to treat the wounded, I don't see why it wouldn't be accurate. In fact, the number if probably higher with the number of people trapped under the rubble. And even if it was only half, it would still be absolutely abhorrent behavior from "the most moral army in the world".
4) If Israel was interested in a fair view of this conflict, they would allow neutral journalists into Gaza, and they wouldn't make an extra effort to kill the local journalists reporting on it (around 90 killed so far). But they are not interested in that.
5) Israel has already been caught in so many comically bad lies, that it is only natural to be a bit skeptical about whatever they come out with.
6) On the flour massacre, why should I believe Israel here, when they have chosen to only release redacted satelitte images? What reason would there be for them to not release the full images, if it absolves them of crimes?
7) We have so many video clips of IDF soldiers in Gaza acting completely deranged, as well as statements from their elected officials in the highest offices about "human animals" etc., that you don't need any imagination at all to come to the conclusion that atrocities are being committed by Israel. They are downright revelling in it.
8) If you honestly think Israel is being held to a different standard, I don't know what to tell you. That only happens online. In the real world, Israel is literally getting away with murder, while the rest of the world wring their hands and offer at most mild pushback.
At this point, I am absolutely baffled about how anyone can look at the Gaza situation and continue to defend Israel. The ones that do, I imagine to be either Israeli themselves or really, really Islamophobic. And frankly, I think your use of the term "Pallywood", when thousands are dying to be quite disgusting.