They killed 9 children.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
Regardless of the accuracy or inaccuracy of your comment, there is no equivalence. Never was. And there’s no value in attempting to establish any.
In response to the firing of almost 200 rockets at Israeli civilian centres they retaliated militarily with air strikes against the launch positions. A full investigation should be carried out, and punishments given.
they do have blood on their hands like every modern state though. No better and no worse. Doesn’t make them right. Also doesn’t make it genocide or ethnic cleansing. It’s just an arrogant militarily advanced country defending itself as any other would. The US, France, UK, Australia, whoever, would all respond with air strikes and not give a feck about civilians. Netanyahu still needs to go. (Preferably to prison)
world is fecked. in the last week ....
2 days ago in Kabul, Islamic IEDs killed 85, mostly 11-15 year old girls. Zero rockets were fired to precipitate this action.
a week ago in burkina faso, Islamic militants burnt down villages and shot dead 30, including children. Zero rockets were fired to provoke it.
We all know what happened in Palma a month ago.
Has owlo sufficiently whitewashed this whole affair yet? He's made as good as an effort as he could with the whataboutisms. He's just doing exactly what the whole Western media is doing.
Hmm the faux liberals of the caf not being arsed when brown/Muslim lives are at risk because it would go against their very strongly held beliefs that Islam is the biggest danger in the world? Colour me shocked.
They killed 9 children.
They’re forcing families out of their home in Sheikh Jarrah.
They assaulted worshippers in their holiest month in their own mosque with rubber bullets, batons, and tear gas.
They smashed the windows and destroyed some of the buildings whilst their ‘civilians’ laughed and jeered and celebrated.
Please stop with this bullshit analysis of how there’s some sort of equivalence between the two sides. It’s anything but and this constant ‘but but in Afghanistan they did this! And over here they did this!’ Is just more nonsense.
Im whitewashing nothing, merely giving perspective.
I dont understand this. My personal feeling is Muslim culture/existence existentially at risk in China, and then there’s a whole host of places where hundreds are killed daily. Yet no outrage is directed there.Are Muslims in those places worth less, or of a lower sect less wort of outrage in the Muslim world. apologies if ignorant, I really don’t understand it.
Ive already said it should be investigated and people punished. I haven’t condoned it once. I’ve simply said it’s not ethnic cleansing and not comparable in any way to Nazi action in 1938. It’s the way every modern bully state behaves.
Oh don't you know, all that ethnic cleansing and all those war crimes perpetrated by Israel are entirely understandable because someone did something horrible in Burkina fecking Faso once.
Maybe ask the pillocks in that thread who were up in arms because some brown people used their democratic rights to freedom of assembly and protest in this country, who are strangely absent in this thread... Your false equivalence between the threads and the situation in Xinjiang, is about as transparent as your apparent concern for the Uighur community. So please, spare me with that bollocks.
Why ”aren’t you arsed” about brown Muslims in “burkina fecking faso”? those 500 or so don’t matter eh
is it because you’re a “faux liberal“ who believes “Islam is the biggest danger to this world?”
Not gonna lie. I’m as much a hypocrit as the next person or armchair activist. Happy to say it’s terrible but happy to gobble up Chinese goods in my consumerist frenzy. That said, I don’t like it, just as I don’t like many other things in this world. (North Korea, Putin, US cops, Israeli overreach) - I just struggle to see there’s such a frenzy in this specific case vs others. I’m equally hypocritical about them all.
edit: probably a bit harsh in first response, but you’re being a bit of a dick too. Nothing personal And I do understand there are reasons to be angry.
What a fecked up state. Nothing on CNN about it either.
I will never respect or consider anyone from Israel as having a nation. Illegal occupier of Palestine and scum.
I hope those corrupt gulf countries have some shame and denounce the recognition of Israel
I will never respect or consider anyone from Israel as having a nation. Illegal occupier of Palestine and scum.
I hope those corrupt gulf countries have some shame and denounce the recognition of Israel
Or part of the settler movement in which case this is the tip of the iceberg
because it's irrelevant in the context of the atrocities that Israel govt does to Palestinians
And then people wonder why there is extremism in the Muslim world. Yeah I'm sure this dude is going to sit for dialogue over a cup of tea to discuss the meaning of accepted views in a western society.
The defending of Palestinian terrorism on here is just sickening. So is the blatant anti-semitism that often fuels it. At a time where hatred against Jews and attacks on Jewish facilities are almost a daily occurrence in the western world.
I think thats a shameful strawman. Too often a tactic deployed to shield the state of Israel against against criticism.
I don't believe I'm seeing much defending of anti-semitism or terrorism. Although that may and does happen. But mainly calling out a state for blatant provocation, defying of international law, police brutality which led to children killed in addition to whitewashing of said crimes including whatabouttery.
If you’re detecting what you believe is an insufficient level of opprobrium directed at Palestinian terrorism on here it’s because it has not been a major element in the recent course of events that have led to this. This is primarily on the Israeli authorities and the dysfunctional politics which have empowered the Jewish far-right in Israel, complacently facilitated by the centre through apathy/indifference.
For consecutive nights now there have been major protests in places like Haifa and Nazareth, far from the epicenter in Jerusalem and almost as far from Gaza and Hamas as you can get. This type of conflagration of Arab grievances across the country has not occurred for a long time, and suggests things could get seriously out of control in the coming days. In that context, of course Hamas will attempt to exert some measure of authority over proceedings the only way they know how - but it seems they are piggy-backing on to a broader movement rather than actively driving events.
If you encounter antisemitic content on here you should either engage or hit the report button. I would agree with @owlo that Nazi analogies should be avoided. Easy to remain clear-sighted about what’s happening without going down that path.
Interesting takeaway from this thread and recent events. How is Palestinian terrorism being defended and where is the anti semitisim you've seen?
What's your opinion on recent events?
Standard Zionist response to any criticism of Israel wrongdoings.
I have to say, as much as I despair at Israeli actions as usual, not sure some of the comparisons to Nazism are particularly helpful.
I've always felt that both apartheid and ethnic cleansing are apt in this situation. Genocide and kristalnacht not so much. It isn't and never has been particularly helpful to jump to the actions of the Jews most horrific period in their entire history as a comparison point.
Genuinely devastated at what's going on there. I've been to the West Bank before and it breaks my heart to see their situation. Maybe a bit of a defeatist attitude but I think the Israelis have 'won' and I honestly think they'll end up taking all the land. Not imminently at all, will probably be decades but we're probably past the point of no return now imo. Question is what happens to the cockr... Sorry Palestinians who live there at the moment.
I've always felt that both apartheid and ethnic cleansing are apt in this situation. Genocide and kristalnacht not so much. It isn't and never has been particularly helpful to jump to the actions of the Jews most horrific period in their entire history as a comparison point.
Genuinely devastated at what's going on there. I've been to the West Bank before and it breaks my heart to see their situation. Maybe a bit of a defeatist attitude but I think the Israelis have 'won' and I honestly think they'll end up taking all the land. Not imminently at all, will probably be decades but we're probably past the point of no return now imo. Question is what happens to the cockr... Sorry Palestinians who live there at the moment.
It's on CNN's website. I don't have a TV package with CNN to check the telly. It's on the national news here as well.
Think you're right about that. I'm sure they'll never state it, but it definitely seems to be the plan. The two state solution died long ago, unfortunately.
How many Palestinians live in the remaining areas? Too many to simply be absorbed into Israel?
All this cause of some pro Israel lobby that has outsized influence.
Any other country and Israel would have been under sanctions for decades.
Any other country and Israel would have been under sanctions for decades.
Oh, do feck off with this post.
Enough that a significant Jewish majority in the state would be under threat.
They wouldn't have built a wall between the two if they could live together. Anyway I think there is around 5.5 mil people in Palestine.
Free Palestine.
Guess they'll just continue to worsen living conditions for them until they somehow disappear, then.
Well neither is going to feck off so I imagine things are going to continue the way they are for a long time.
No chance, the western countries would have the moral authority or gumption to impose tough sanctions on the group of people, upon whom a genocide was facilitated under their watch.
I'm not entirely sure what the Israeli right's long term vision is regarding the future of the Palestinian people. Do they hope to make their lives as hopelessly miserable as possible hoping they all eventually feck off to Jordan or a neighbouring Arab country? Or just desperately submit to a two state agreement with ridiculous stipulations, considerably depleted territory and rights? All I know is the one state solution is off the cards considering the Palestinian numbers and the insistence of a Jewish state, whereas any two state prospect will likely never be accepted since its always caveated with unrealistic stipulations that the Palestinians will rightfully never agree to.
Honestly, part of me doesn't blame the Israelis. It's always worth remembering that they carry out these unchecked acts of colonial aggression because the United States enables them to do so. Diplomatically, militarily, the Israelis know they can enjoy absolutely zero repercussions by carrying on whatever destructive course they're on, knowing the world's premier superpower will pull out all the stops to ensure it remains bulletproof.
The depressing thing in all this is neither the Israeli right nor Hamas have any appetite for peace. The status quo suits them and their respective agendas very nicely.
Honestly, part of me doesn't blame the Israelis. It's always worth remembering that they carry out these unchecked acts of colonial aggression because the United States enables them to do so. Diplomatically, militarily, the Israelis know they can enjoy absolutely zero repercussions by carrying on whatever destructive course they're on, knowing the world's premier superpower will pull out all the stops to ensure it remains bulletproof.
The depressing thing in all this is neither the Israeli right nor Hamas have any appetite for peace. The status quo suits them and their respective agendas very nicely.
I think you're placing too much stock on this. All these regretful sentiments of 'never again' are pretty vacuous virtue signalling from western powers. There's literally a genocide happening in China right now that's following an eerily similar blueprint as to what happened in Europe in the 30s/40s, yet you'd struggle to squeeze out a modicum of condemnation from the same western powers who's economic models are too tightly coupled to China. If there's a lack of appetite for reprimanding Israel then its more likely to do with the power of intensely embedded lobbying and the fear of provoking the United States, than it is a regret over the old Allied power's apathy during the early years of the holocaust IMO.
For the mainstream right it’s basically limited autonomy in Area A under the continuing Israeli security umbrella, with complete Israeli freedom of action elsewhere. Netanyahu himself outlined something of this vision back in the 70s, I don’t think he’s changed his mind much and the Trump plan was basically reflective of this, although the terminology has changed a bit to go with the times:
Differences among them arise over whether or not to annex what remains, and whether to concede that Palestinian autonomy may acquire the status of a “state” through future negotiations. Bennett for example would be less ambiguous in these matters, but functionally it’s the same idea. Also on the question of Palestinian citizens, the further right you go the more you hear calls for their status to be conditioned on loyalty oaths, etc.
Then when you reach the periphery you get to those advocating “population transfer” and/or stripping of citizenship. A small enough minority even on the right but empowered by the recent political deadlock.
This is not accounting for the ultra-orthodox parties.
(edit): to add to this, I don’t believe they have any vision for Gaza.
My god what a deluded load of ****.
Tell me you’re Pro-Zionist without telling me you’re Pro-Zionist.
Israeli right? As if there’s a true Israeli left. They can’t be zionists and left wing, it doesn’t work that way. The wars on Gaza that started in 2008 were led by the so called Israeli left govt under Ehud Olmert. 2012, 2014 were led by defense minister Ehud Barak who himself was Prime Minister during the atrocities of October 2000 events running a left wing government. It’s all a facade.
Last edited:
Investigated by who Einstein? Israeli investigators? The Supreme Court (again the Israeli supreme court) are forcing residents out of Sheikh Jarrah. They don't give a shit if their IDF are killing kids. Use your head, ffs.
Zionism isn't what it used to be. It was in fact a highly left wing movement once upon a time, before and maybe immediately post the second world war.
There is a substantial secular, left wing, Israeli population, too. The problem is that military service is mandatory and the IDF give an umbrella to far right settlers. In this sense, the state and the far right are very much complicit. Most secular Israelis don't like the right wing settlers but also don't seem to have any ideas about what to do with them. Withdrawing IDF protection would be a good start.
If you add up the number of Israeli-Arabs and the population from West Bank and Gaza, it's a 50-50 split or thereabouts. That's why settlement is in many ways a terrible policy for Israelis. If they create worse and worse conditions then the only option will be a one state solution and they could fast find themselves a minority in such a state.
Brave man. Nobody here will acknowledge the clear undercurrent of anti-semitism and you'll just get shit for it, but it's quite obviously there. I'm not sure that it's the anti-semitism that fuels palestinian support though (And let's be honest, this flare up did not start with 'palestinian terrorism,' rather legitimate protests against genuine grievances. I think it's more just a general undercurrent of how people feel about Jews. If you could say anything without repercussion the Avram Glazer thread would have been full of it. People legitimately don't give a feck, it's somehow acceptable in most of the world. (In the last 10 years, the only place Anti Semitism has significantly decreased is Russia, and this is mostly because of Putin)
This thread has been full of: (Often simply replacing the word Jew)
"The Israeli lobby has too much control over the US government"
"Jews are more loyal to Israel than their own country"
"Jews in Israel only care what happen to themselves"
"Jews talk about the holocaust too much. Lets use it against Israel instead with comparatives"
"Jews control the global media painting Israel in a positive light"
They haven't made a decision yet. And the Israeli courts have regularly sanctioned criminal activity against Palestinians. Shooting a Palestinian kid gets you life in prison, just like shooting an Israeli kid.
Little to none of this has been stated. You're making up false arguments to support your ridiculously naive claim that the violence against the Palestinians in the past few days has been anything other than asymmetrical.
What is your point in this thread?
It all has. Just not completely overtly as people don't want to get banned.
What claims have I made in the last few days that are incorrect?