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Okay guys, looking at the peace plan, I have a question. How long do you think it is before Palestine is just a memory and Al aqsa is taken back as a temple rather than a mosque? Do you think this is something that's completely possible in the near future or is it absurd?
 
2cents said:
It might be politically impossible for him right now, but it would be nice to see Sanders be the first to now acknowledge what everyone has known for quite some time - that ‘two states’ will not be happening - and openly consider the implications of this for everybody involved.
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In town halls he has said he is committed to Israel as a Jewish state, I don't think he'll move on that (he spent a year at a kibbutz a million years ago).
 
To me, this deal is so blatantly one sided that it's designed to be rejected by the Palestinians and (I'd imagine) then used to pin the blame on them for being uncooperative.

- Jewish Settlements in West Bank become legitimised. Land compensated by useless, arid land near the border with Egypt.
- Whole of Jerusalem, undivided, under Israel's control
- Palestine a demilitarised puppet state that can't protect its borders from further land grabs and can't control it's own trade (I assume, like now, trade will be under strict Israeli inspections to prevent flow of weapons into Palestine).

In essence it offers nothing to Palestinians apart from recognition of a state that has none of the powers of an actual state and just legitimises the status quo.
 
Nice picture
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The Palestinians are always getting betrayed by the Arabs. First by Emir Hussein who was willing to support the Balfour declaration of he was made king of Arabia. But the British and French rejected it and he was stabbed in the back.
Now the Saudis are betraying the Palestinians because they want to be in charge of All Aqsa mosque. So long as the house of saud is alive as and running Saudi Arabia there will be no peace in Islam. They are a curse
 
Palestinians cut all ties with US and Israel over ‘arrogance’ of Jared Kushner’s ‘peace’ deal

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas announced Saturday that the Palestinian Authority would cut all ties with the U.S. and Israel after rejecting the “peace” plan spearheaded by Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner.

President Donald Trump outlined the heavily pro-Israel proposal while standing alongside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House last week with no Palestinian representatives present. The plan would create a demilitarized Palestinian state while establishing Jerusalem as Israel’s undivided capital and allowing illegally built Israeli settlements in the West Bank to remain in place.

Abbas, who immediately rejected the proposal, went further while addressing an emergency meeting of the Arab League called in response to the plan.

“We’ve informed the Israeli side . . . that there will be no relations at all with them and the United States, including security ties,” Abbas said Saturday, according to Reuters.

The Palestinians have long cooperated with Israeli forces in policing occupied areas of the West Bank and shared intelligence with the CIA.

Abbas said he refused multiple attempts by Trump to discuss the proposal.

“Trump asked that I speak to him by phone, but I said, ‘No.’ And that he wants to send me a letter . . . but I refused it,” he said, explaining that he did not want Trump to be able to say he consulted the Palestinians in announcing the plan.

The Palestinians ended talks with the Trump administration in 2017 after Trump moved the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem and were not involved in crafting Kushner’s plan.

Abbas reiterated his “complete” rejection of the Kushner peace plan Saturday.

“I will not have it recorded in my history that I sold Jerusalem,” he said.

Dozens of Middle Eastern nations joined Abbas in condemning the plan.

The Trump administration had hoped that Arab counties close to the U.S. would back the deal. However, the Arab League unanimously voted to reject Trump’s proposal Saturday, because it “does not satisfy the minimum of the rights and aspirations of the Palestinian people.”

The organization said that the Trump plan contradicted the principles of the peace process and United Nations resolutions, according to Axios, arguing that any peace deal must include a Palestinian state under the borders approved in 1967 with East Jerusalem as its capital. The statement also warned Israel against annexing the West Bank.

The 57-nation Organization of Islamic Cooperation similarly rejected the plan as “biased” Monday, according to The Associated Press.

The Organization of Islamic Cooperation said in a statement that Trump’s plan “lacks the minimum requirements of justice and destroys the foundations of peace.”

The statement came after Palestinian Foreign Minister Riad al-Malki urged members not to engage in Trump’s plan in any way.

“Anything less than that will give the illegitimate Israeli occupation more time to use the imaginary peace process as an excuse to create their colonies,” he said.

Kushner, who has touted the benefits of his plan by trashing Palestinian leaders in television interviews, appeared to threaten Palestinians with permanent Israeli rule in an interview Sunday with CNN.

“For the Palestinians, if they want their people to live better lives, we now have a framework to do it,” Kushner said. “If they don’t think that they can uphold these standards, then I don’t think we can get Israel to take the risk to recognize them as a state — to allow them to take control of themselves — because the only thing more dangerous than what we have now is a failed state.”

Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat told CNN that there was nothing to negotiate, since Kushner took it upon himself to unilaterally dictate the terms of a peace proposal.

“What is left to negotiate? When I said these issues must be negotiated between us and Israel directly, Kushner responded by calling me a failed negotiator, unable to negotiate,” he said. “He negotiated on my behalf, because he knows better than I do what is best for me. This is the art of dictation, arrogance and blackmail.”
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Drifter said:
Palestinians cut all ties with US and Israel over ‘arrogance’ of Jared Kushner’s ‘peace’ deal
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Kushner. how the feck the most sensitive political conflict peace deal is handed to him? how is he qualified to carry such a major major job? Are the US government stupid?
 
Well i'm guessing Estate Developers do not make great middle east negotiators .
 
“Annexation is something that I think Ambassador Friedman is pushing, together with Netanyahu, in order to help Netanyahu get reelected,” said Martin Indyk, former U.S. ambassador to Israel and former assistant secretary of State for near-eastern affairs. “But if Jared Kushner wants to keep the Arabs on board, he has to slow down the annexation. [So] there’s an interesting tension there.”

Kushner, a 39-year-old real estate developer, has also been caustically dismissive of the diplomatic history and peace plans that came before him. He’s described previous efforts as “fairy tales” and “tired old ideas” that failed.

“I’ve been studying this now for three years,” Kushner told Sky News Arabia. “I’ve read 25 books on it. I’ve spoken to every leader in the region. I’ve spoken to everyone who’s been involved in this.”

Kushner included in the plan what is described as a $50-billion investment scheme for Palestinians, although it is not specified where the money would come from. People who are familiar with Kushner’s thinking say he approached the plan the way a business entrepreneur would: cash for concessions and compliance. But that approach ignores Palestinian history, nationalism and dignity, Gordon said.
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A couple of recent examples of Israeli taxi firms refusing to pick up Arab customers/ offering a service to only be picked up by Jewish drivers for those who flinch at any kind of apartheid comparison.

Netanyahu looks like he's in the lead again.
 
Relevated said:
Okay guys, looking at the peace plan, I have a question. How long do you think it is before Palestine is just a memory and Al aqsa is taken back as a temple rather than a mosque? Do you think this is something that's completely possible in the near future or is it absurd?
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Not near future but I think it will happen unfortunately. Time only favours expansionists within Israel.
 
africanspur said:
A couple of recent examples of Israeli taxi firms refusing to pick up Arab customers/ offering a service to only be picked up by Jewish drivers for those who flinch at any kind of apartheid comparison.

Netanyahu looks like he's in the lead again.
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As soon as the Nationality Bill was passed this was openly the direction of travel, if it had been covertly before.
 
africanspur said:
A couple of recent examples of Israeli taxi firms refusing to pick up Arab customers/ offering a service to only be picked up by Jewish drivers for those who flinch at any kind of apartheid comparison.
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Looked up reports on these incidents and found that these practises are illegal under Israeli law. One taxi firm got convicted for breaching anti-discrimination laws, another one just got sued. The reports say it's impossible for these companies to openly practise this stuff, so it has to be attempted under the guise of other (legal) reasons.

So examples of racism, which I'm sure there's a shit ton of. But apartheid means these practises being institutionalized and legalized, and, at least when it comes to these particular incidents, the opposite seems to be the case.
 
Looks like the end for Netanyahu



It’s actually quite incredible. Gantz could not have this chance without support of both the largely Arab and left-wing Joint List and right-wing firebrand Lieberman.
 
Sir Matt said:
:eek: Bye bye, Bibi!
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Not quite yet. Gantz now has the first chance to form a government, but it’ll be tough to do so from such a diverse crowd. His best bet may be to convince the Likud to turn on Netanyahu, but there’s been little signs of that happening yet. As things stand his best shot is a minority government supported from the outside by the Joint List, which would be a similar set-up to the Rabin Labour-led coalition of the 90s. But a fourth election is not out of the question.

Whatever happens though, the real positive product of this entire election saga has been the hands-on activism and political engagement of Israeli Arabs and their representatives in the process. Their rise as a serious political faction has the potential to bring into sharp relief for Israelis the reality of the direction the country has been headed for a while now. It’s unprecedented, and they’re fortunate to have a figure like Ayman Odeh as their face. He strikes me as the most impressive Arab politician of his generation.
 
This is unprecedented.

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In a 2015 interview with Fashion magazine, Gadot explained that her time in the military wasn't as tough as it sounds. "The army wasn't that difficult for me. The military gave me good training for Hollywood," she shrugged. In fact, according to the Israel native, training for Wonder Woman was actually way more intense than fighting in an actual battle. As the former Miss Israel admitted on Live with Kelly and Ryan, via People, "I never planned on being an actress. It kind of happened to me and I fell in love with the profession."

The following year, she explained to Glamour magazine, "In Israel serving is part of being an Israeli. You've got to give back to the state. You give two or three years, and it's not about you. You give your freedom away. You learn discipline and respect."

Read More: https://www.thelist.com/164323/here...ly-did-in-the-israeli-army/?utm_campaign=clip
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Benny Gantz capitulated, broke up his own party to form unity government with Likud. Massive victory for Netanyahu. Gantz is supposed to become PM in 18 months but no way Netanyahu will let things get that far:



Looks like the now tiny Labour Party May also join, which will at least ensure that Netanyahu will feel much less pressure to cave in to right-wing demands.
 
just saw the news with netanyahu. bolsonaro and trump are all flash, burning brightly but perhaps for not too long, bibi is an eternal master. he's in a country with a proportional system and still can never be beaten.
 


At one time a ridiculously successful party, similar in its initial success to our Congress party. They even had their fall in the same year (1977).
 
berbatrick said:


At one time a ridiculously successful party, similar in its initial success to our Congress party. They even had their fall in the same year (1977).
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Probably for the best if a new left is to emerge which is willing to embrace the Arab parties. Labour had a resurgence during the 90s but the second intifada absolutely killed them.
 
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