Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Kaos said:
Factions like ISIS aren't a viable parallel considering they were equally, if not more brutal to the people in the nations they lay sieged on, and were despised with even more fervour by the people of Iraq and Syria, who by the way played an equal if not bigger role in annihilating them.

The reason Hamas continues to exist is because of Israel's heavy handed response, spawning generation after generation of grief-stricken Palestinians with nothing to lose, being easy prey for their recruitment drive.
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Hamas was created to destroy Israel and subsequently turned into an Iranian proxy since the Iranians have the same goal. Therefore, no Israeli action short of closing up shop and having all Jews leave the area would've assuaged them. Likewise as we're now finding out, no Israeli policy short of getting rid of Hamas will be acceptable, as they now see the existence of Hamas as an existential threat to the future of Israel.
 
Only 1 or 2 pages back someone asked how long it would be before the claims of an Israeli false flag came out.
 
We're living in very fascistic times. Gaslighting, whipping up hatred, oppressing the most vulnerable while portraying them in inhuman terms...

It's really important to remember that human progress is based on cooperation not division. Our leaders are liars.
 
Hamas arose because Palestine was being destroyed. It's like saying the IRA were created to destroy Britain. The order of the frame is somewhat wrong even though each commited acts of terror against occupying forces. They arise out of occupations, brutal, and assymetric and then visit often brutal violence, assymetrically, upon the occupier. To say they are created to destroy the nation which is the cause of their existence is to pretend that they'd be doing it even if normative conditions came about which, if we're drawing history lessons from such conflicts, we know is not true. See the Good Friday Agreement for proof.

Where's the IRA, the same one which murdered more British people you can count, today? In Government, north and soon to be south and non-violent. The unionist "side"? The same. In government in the north.
 
This is interesting - an Israeli settler woman has given her testimony of what happened when Hamas stormed the settler building:

 
Giggsyking said:
Wow, I couldnt find the original post.. Did he delete it? people are showing their true colors.
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I deleted it. They were not my words. It was from a reader on here who himself is from Israel.

Are you really surprised that he hates Hamas after what they literally just did to his country?
 
Front page story for both tomorrow's Metro and Independent (and almost certainly others in this country and around the world).

This journalism lark is a piece of piss. Just print anything and worry about confirming it or not whenever you feel like it.
 
do.ob said:
Where's the disinfo, did the media report her dead? Funny you're so concerned with disinfo when you share videos off Instagram accounts from powerlifters?
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Dead, raped, etc - someone in the thread said she was shot in the back of the head. I dunno - people say all sorts and believe all sorts. Good to know she's alive and in hospital. Although Israel may end up bombing the shit out of that hospital and then we'll have to hear the weirdos say it was a Hamas base or something.
 
Raoul said:
Hamas was created to destroy Israel and subsequently turned into an Iranian proxy since the Iranians have the same goal. Therefore, no Israeli action short of closing up shop and having all Jews leave the area would've assuaged them. Likewise as we're now finding out, no Israeli policy short of getting rid of Hamas will be acceptable, as they now see the existence of Hamas as an existential threat to the future of Israel.
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I'm not questioning their goals or offering them a modicum of solidarity, but challenging this supposed sentiment of them being the issue here. Hamas are a mere drop in the ocean in the history of this conflict. They're an extreme manifestation of a desperate people's struggle, but not a foundational one. The reason they exist is because of the hardships and injustictices forced on the Palestinians, and if there's no path to a just resolution and alleviation of hardship then they'll continue to exist, perhaps not under the same name but certainly under the same belligerent form.
 
This thread needs some rule about twitter links. Turkey news agency, Doam are not exactly what you call “verified information sources”. Doam regularly tweets misinformation videos so Anadolu might even be legit but Doam certainly isnt. It seems extremely unlikely that Israel army sources will speak to Turkey news agency and confirm anything.

Even the information about that German women is bit misleading. Only video which was shown was put up by Hamas militants, and it showed head injuries and motionless body, and we drew the conclusion that she is dead. People were literally spitting on her body in that video. And if she is alive in Gaza then she was being taken as hostage.

All i see is unverified accounts trending on any hashtags related to this unfortunate situation. Twitter isn’t doing much to stop that, but mods here can stop that.
 
The Corinthian said:
Is this in response to what I've posted? Pics of what exactly?
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No nothing specifically posted (by you or other). The beheaded babies, peoples word will never be considered enough proof, they’ll either have to be public pictures or it will be doubted.

Hence the popular cultural phrase, pics or it didn’t happen
 
do.ob said:
Where's the disinfo, did the media report her dead? Funny you're concerned with disinfo yet you share videos off Instagram accounts from powerlifters?
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Also, feel free to discredit my sources if it makes you feel better - I can at least get them corroborated. It seems you can't quite accept that you're wrong about the information you consume.
 
The Corinthian said:
Dead, raped, etc - someone in the thread said she was shot in the back of the head. I dunno - people say all sorts and believe all sorts. Good to know she's alive and in hospital. Although Israel may end up bombing the shit out of that hospital and then we'll have to hear the weirdos say it was a Hamas base or something.
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She's in a Hamas controlled hospital. The only reason she is alive is because they benefit from having her alive. She is literally a hostage.
 
pratyush_utd said:
This thread needs some rule about twitter links. Turkey news agency, Doam are not exactly what you call “verified information sources”. Doam regularly tweets misinformation videos so Anadolu might even be legit but Doam certainly isnt. It seems extremely unlikely that Israel army sources will speak to Turkey news agency and confirm anything.

Even the information about that German women is bit misleading. Only video which was shown was put up by Hamas militants, and it showed head injuries and motionless body, and we drew the conclusion that she is dead. People were literally spitting on her body in that video. And if she is alive in Gaza then she was being taken as hostage.

All i see is unverified accounts trending on any hashtags related to this unfortunate situation. Twitter isn’t doing much to stop that, but mods here can stop that.
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Trouble is you have 'respected' mainstream outlets having already been caught with their pants down with running unverified stories that have proven to be contentious or flat out untrue.
 
Beheading babies or bombing babies, which is worse? What a shit world we live in.
 
Amar__ said:
Remember when Serbian generals Mladic and Milosevic convinced young Bosnians in Srebrenica to give up their weapons and that they are good friends to them. All while being protected by neutral side that were Netherlands soldiers that presented UN.

Yeah, that was a great moment in history for our country.
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Making another Balkan analogy: the pacifist movement of Kosovan president Rugova from 1989 to 1997 achieved feck all. In fact, the biggest achievement was a deal that allowed Albanian students to go at university (not funded by the state), but not on high schools (primary schools were allowed though). That was the biggest achievement in 8 years of a total obedience during an apartheid regime.

When one side is completely determined to exterminate the other, the other being peaceful does not achieve any peace.

Unluckily for Palestinians, Israel is far stronger than Yugoslavia and far more importantly, US’s best friend. So the Palestinians are fecked no matter what.

In fact, the survivors of Gaza will have a better life as refugees in other countries (which will ultimately happen) then the hell they have been since born. As sad as it might be, I think the ultimate solution is a Palestine/Israel without Palestinians. Anything better than living in a prison that gets constantly bombed.
 
Raoul said:
Hamas was created to destroy Israel and subsequently turned into an Iranian proxy since the Iranians have the same goal. Therefore, no Israeli action short of closing up shop and having all Jews leave the area would've assuaged them. Likewise as we're now finding out, no Israeli policy short of getting rid of Hamas will be acceptable, as they now see the existence of Hamas as an existential threat to the future of Israel.
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I've never believed this. Hamas was funded and supported by Israel to grow. I believe to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood who with the community projects had lots of support in various countries in the ME. I'm still of the belief that Hamas carry out these attacks and Israel goes into Gaza. Israel then get verbal support but behind the scenes deals are struck. Then peace for a bit. Rinse and repeat.

Yeah it sound a a bit conspiracy theory but the facts are there for most of what I've said.

Similarly Iran and Israel need each other. Iran is shia and doesn't survive too long amongst the Sunnis. Israel's help to Iran during the Iraq Iran conflict saves Iran. Iraq's air power would have simply walked over Iran without Israel providing ammunitions and soldiers.
 
do.ob said:
Where's the disinfo, did the media report her dead? Funny you're concerned with disinfo yet you share videos off Instagram accounts from powerlifters?
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Dunno what the media reported but she's dead, you only got to check the video. The close up one of her half naked and unmoving with a shattered right leg and large bullet hole in the back of her head while she's driven along by people celebratory shouting "god is great" at the top of their lungs and a crowd of people taking turns to spit on her corpse.
 
zaafi said:
She's in a Hamas controlled hospital. The only reason she is alive is because they benefit from having her alive. She is literally a hostage.
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How do you know it's a Hamas controlled hospital?
 
pratyush_utd said:
This thread needs some rule about twitter links. Turkey news agency, Doam are not exactly what you call “verified information sources”. Doam regularly tweets misinformation videos so Anadolu might even be legit but Doam certainly isnt. It seems extremely unlikely that Israel army sources will speak to Turkey news agency and confirm anything.

Even the information about that German women is bit misleading. Only video which was shown was put up by Hamas militants, and it showed head injuries and motionless body, and we drew the conclusion that she is dead. People were literally spitting on her body in that video. And if she is alive in Gaza then she was being taken as hostage.

All i see is unverified accounts trending on any hashtags related to this unfortunate situation. Twitter isn’t doing much to stop that, but mods here can stop that.
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Which misinformation videos has doam tweeted?
 
Roane said:
I've never believed this. Hamas was funded and supported by Israel to grow. I believe to destroy the Muslim Brotherhood who with the community projects had lots of support in various countries in the ME. I'm still of the belief that Hamas carry out these attacks and Israel goes into Gaza. Israel then get verbal support but behind the scenes deals are struck. Then peace for a bit. Rinse and repeat.

Yeah it sound a a bit conspiracy theory but the facts are there for most of what I've said.

Similarly Iran and Israel need each other. Iran is shia and doesn't survive too long amongst the Sunnis. Israel's help to Iran during the Iraq Iran conflict saves Iran. Iraq's air power would have simply walked over Iran without Israel providing ammunitions and soldiers.
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Eh? Abit off topic but I don't recall Israeli troops helping the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war. Only time the Iraqis and Israelis have been in direct confrontation in recent decades is when the Israelis blew up Saddam's nuclear facilities and when Saddam unprovokedly bombed Israel during the Gulf War to tempt the opposing Arab nations to switch sides.
 
The Corinthian said:
Dead, raped, etc - someone in the thread said she was shot in the back of the head. I dunno - people say all sorts and believe all sorts. Good to know she's alive and in hospital. Although Israel may end up bombing the shit out of that hospital and then we'll have to hear the weirdos say it was a Hamas base or something.
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Are people on redcafe writing the news now?
Her mother says she has serious head injuries, going by the video her limbs didn't look to be at very natural angles, while she was apparently driven around so people could shout Allahu Akbar and spit on her body and now she's being used as a bargaining chip by "good guys" Hamas.
 
zaafi said:
The hospital is in Gaza. The source is Bild, German newspaper.
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Do you think Hamas owns and runs every building in Gaza? There's MSF hospitals there. There's UN run hospitals there. You're showing your ignorance here.
 
Kaos said:
Eh? Abit off topic but I don't recall Israeli troops helping the Iranians during the Iran-Iraq war. Only time the Iraqis and Israelis have been in direct confrontation in recent decades is when the Israelis blew up Saddam's nuclear facilities and when Saddam unprovokedly bombed Israel during the Gulf War to tempt the opposing Arab nations to switch sides.
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Israel supported Iran during the Iran-Iraq war.
 
Kaos said:
You realise there's a whole swathe of impartial organisations and charities who run hospitals in Gaza?
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She was on the truck with 8 Hamas soldiers, naked and looked dead. Why would they let a hostage to a hospital elsewhere when she can be an important part of a hostage trade?
 
The Corinthian said:
Also, feel free to discredit my sources if it makes you feel better - I can at least get them corroborated. It seems you can't quite accept that you're wrong about the information you consume.
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What do you know about the information I consume. I'm not the one spaming 5 Tweets from random people on every page.
 
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