What if some of them were? They were 'armed' with rocks.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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What if some of them were? They were 'armed' with rocks.
Water cannons, rubber bullets, tear gas are 3 options
That’s coming from someone who grew up in NI and saw a share of riots
They tend to be a bit more useful than whistles and batons.
None
Water canons and rubber bullets are a good option.
And here's where we differ. The Israeli's are utterly unconvinced that the Palestinian cause is about peace more than destroying Israel. And I agree.
What perpetuates the conflict (more than straw man settlements) - and I include your side in this - is the convenient amnesia as to why we got here. The Palestinian refugee crisis must be blamed on the Arabs, both in 48 and 67. Simply put, if they never attacked with genocidal intent, there wouldn't be this mess AND there would have been a Palestine.
Why can't you accept this Cheesy?
Israel just plays into their hands every time. A load of dead kids will now be the front page news for days
Trump has a lot to answer for
Trump has a lot to answer for
Israel
I understand why you're unconvinced, because Hamas and a number of Arabic countries are well-known for their hostility towards Israel, and I understand that Israel would be wary of its own continuing existence if they feel they have to secede too much.
But they should also recognise that this is a problem that isn't really ever going to go away for them unless they genuinely intend on bombing Palestine into oblivion. And the more civilians they kill and the more illegal settlements they build, the more Palestinians are going to be more focused on revenge or fighting back as opposed to peace. Irrespective of your stance - what do you think Israel is actually hoping to achieve here? Irrespective of past conflicts and refugee crises and Hamas, it's a dreadful approach from Israel.
I don't really want to get dragged into what these threads always become. But. My immediate reaction is that surely there's a response to these protests that is less deadly. Would tear gas and rubber bullets not work?
Such a response can harm Israel in the long run anyway. More support for Hamas or extremism will arise due to the way Israel respond to these situations. I think it's a great recruiting situation for Hamas actually. Different situations but it makes me think of the IRA and situations like Bloody Sunday.
Such a response can harm Israel in the long run anyway. More support for Hamas or extremism will arise due to the way Israel respond to these situations. I think it's a great recruiting situation for Hamas actually. Different situations but it makes me think of the IRA and situations like Bloody Sunday.
Murderous arseholes are at it again.
The lack of a conscience in their people is quite disturbing too.
The lack of a conscience in their people is quite disturbing too.
The BBC reporting these as 'clashes' is a disgrace. More like a massacre
I guess the calculation is that a lower casualty rate now will deter and prevent the bloodbath should tens of thousands breach the border. Clearly tear gas, rubber rounds and pamphlets haven't helped.
A proper ruber bullet used for crowd control feels like getting punched by a gorilla you don't want to be on the receiving end of that.
Many people don't know they haven't been shot by a real bullet but ratber a rubber one because it knocks the wind out of them.
Many people don't know they haven't been shot by a real bullet but ratber a rubber one because it knocks the wind out of them.
The question is - why would Israel care about restraint? They have the White House Orangutan by the balls, so it doesn’t matter whether they kill 50, 500, 5000, what’s the most severe response they can expect? A UNSC resolution condemning their actions? It’ll just get veto’d by the US.
Let’s be honest, with a Trump White House they’re at liberty to take the gloves off. Unapologetically build more illegal settlements, swap the rubber bullets for high caliber ammunition, heck raze Gaza to the ground with a fire bombing barrage. Who’s going to do anything?
The Palestinians are on their own unfortunately, much to the glee of Hamas recruiters.
Let’s be honest, with a Trump White House they’re at liberty to take the gloves off. Unapologetically build more illegal settlements, swap the rubber bullets for high caliber ammunition, heck raze Gaza to the ground with a fire bombing barrage. Who’s going to do anything?
The Palestinians are on their own unfortunately, much to the glee of Hamas recruiters.
How does every other country habdle protests?
You don't want to come off sounding like that, do you?
Well said.
Israel can’t help but proving that they’ve become a fascist state.
Very differently, but then again most of them aren't up against protests involving a group like Hamas. If this was just disgruntled students protesting tuition fees I'm sure the response would be quite different.
Many killed in previous riots. This from March 31st's border clash...
Are you saying that Hamas effectively have martyrs at these events to inflame the situation and use it as a recruiting tool?
The comparisons to apartheid South Africa aren't far off the mark. And, true to history repeating itself, the United States is on the wrong side here.
Israel's right to exist is exactly that, a right, that is non-negotiable. I don't see why that is incompatible with treating the Palestinians like human beings and doing all it takes to make the 2 state solution possible. They've been given carte blanche by a country who's citizens believe Jesus' return on Mount Carmel is imminent. fecking nauseating.
Israel's right to exist is exactly that, a right, that is non-negotiable. I don't see why that is incompatible with treating the Palestinians like human beings and doing all it takes to make the 2 state solution possible. They've been given carte blanche by a country who's citizens believe Jesus' return on Mount Carmel is imminent. fecking nauseating.
Not just this white house, any white house, Israel have always been doing stuff like this without consequence.
If Hamas was involved in a serious way don't you think there would be some rockets flying into Israel? You cite their name as an excuse to murder
Definetly yes. We see protests of this type all around the world, remember how France was a few years ago with all those burning cars anywhere?
A modern country has the means to curb this without unnecessary massacres.
This is a massacre aided by the west that has lasted over 60 years.
I doubt any there are many operations where there is absolutely zero involvement from Hamas.
What about this protest warranted such a response? Were the protestors armed with rockets or nuclear bombs?
Using hamas bames seems to be a get out of free card for Israel behavior.
Agreed, but more so this one.
Obama did continue the trend of Israeli exceptionalism but in his defense he wouldn’t have contemplated doing something as stupidly provocative as moving the embassy to Jerusalem, even Bush didnt entertain the idea.
Trump is something else though, and the Israelis know it.
Nobody protests like the Palestinians
Why does it matter? Would the students be throwing the same rocks? Why wouldn't Israel treat all of its citizens the same way?
The world needs to take a stand agains this, including (or rather, specially) our beloved European Union. At some point I will certainly be equally embarrassed by.our leaders that don't try to stop it, as I Am by the "other's" leaders that enable it.
What sort of stand would you propose?
Justification of shooting to kill against people that throw rocks?
Nice...
Nice...
Barbara Lee and Emily Thornberry (in particular her) made strong statements too.
And nobody kills them like the Israelis.
The answer to US foreign policy has been far too weak. It's a sort of "we don't agree with it" when we should be actively opposing it. I'm not proposing wars on Israel or anything like that, but I think we spend too much time crying about Trump instead of showing him off. I don't understand enough against politics or military to be more specific in regards to your answer, but I do have strong feeling about our roles.
As an example, Portugal hosted the meeting that lead to the invasion of Iraq. We were all against it, but did we showed it in the following elections? No we didn't. We have to demand more from our governments instead of blaming Americans for everything. Europe is strong enough to help balance international diplomacy, it just doesn't use that power. And that responsibility has to fall upon its citizens as well, not just the red-hat-MAGA American exceptionalists.
There's a slight difference between regular protests we see across the world and what's happening in Gaza - with which Israel is in a state of war - in that the entire impulse behind these protests is to remove the barrier preventing Gazans from entering Israel. So the issue goes beyond questions like "do Palestinians have a right to protest?" or "what is the appropriate response to rioting protestors?" to much bigger ones like "do Palestinians have the right to enter Israel as they please?" and "does Israel have a right to prevent Palestinians entering its territory?" And these are questions which go back to the fundamental dynamics driving the entire conflict, which is why most people will answer them in line with their broader view of the conflict.
Hamas want us to believe this is a festival-style protest with Israeli snipers randomly picking off Palestinian women and children at will. Israel wants us to believe that thousands of blood-thirsty terrorists are storming the fence so they can reach nearby Israeli towns to murder Israeli civilians. There are no doubt individual cases which can be cited to support each narrative. But beyond the immediate propaganda war these protests raise fundamental unresolved issues pertaining to the conflict which many seem unaware of.
Netanjahu is a madman. Sitting in the powder keg and constantly playing with fire. The reckless killing needs to stop, but with Trump rubbing his hands at the idea of 'good guys' shooting 'bad guys' this is going to continue indefinitely.