Israel launches air strikes on Gaza

Implicitly.

And you'd be really big on trusting the possible implicated statements of an organisation that has vowed to destroy the nation of Israel time and time again on exactly the issue of whether they would destroy Israel?

I wouldn't.

Again, why was there a 1967 war? Or any of the other wars?

Is it within the very remotest sphere of possibility that the plan has (on numerous occassions) been to wipe out all trace of Israel? Go with your gut on this one.

About 30 years ago, those intent on the genocide of the Jews realised that they would never win an actual war to do so, and that terrorism combined with cuddling up to the naive/anti-semitic leaders and people of the west was the best way to go to meet their objective.

They have whipped much of the Western World into an anti-Israeli frenzy - a frenzy that means that the actions of Hamas and others go excused or uncommented upon again and again whilst the merest sneeze from Israel results in the political weight of the world coming down on them.

This has allowed them to never seriously come to the table with any intention on peace - both betraying their enemies and their own people - without generally getting called on it from anyone, and in fact being praised for the great efforts they went to make peace with those warmongering fiends from the Jewish state.

There are those who want to live in peace and freedom - like the average Palestinian and the average Israeli.

Then there are people like Hamas - whose word we are supposed to take (if they had even ever given it, which they haven't) that the whole genocide agenda was just a phase, like acne on a teenaged girl.

Would you bet your children's lives on it being a phase?

Hamas have at least offered a big change in the attitude from never recognizing Israel to the 'impossible'. You don't think this deserves any sort of a positive response from Israel who've been illegally occupying Palestinian land for 40 years?

The 1967 war was a shame, like I've said earlier, saying Israel shouldn't exist is bullshit, both wrong and impossible. But you have to put it into context. Did UN ask the opinion of Palestinians when they decided to create Israel in a land largely populated with Palestinians? How will you feel if UN decides to create a Kurdish state in the middle of US? Will you stand still and applaud? No, you will fight back to claim a land taken away from you without even asking your opinion on such matter.

Your views on the world being anti-Israeli are opinions and I fully understand them given you watch Fox, Sky, CNN ....24/7.
 
:lol:

We need Tony Blair's help if we're going to get anywhere near our creative peak circa 1998-2002. ;)

I was thinking "you invented ice hockey, which is a threat to the stability of frozen lakes everywhere". Sounds good to me. Even better if we can implicate Michigan and perhaps Wisconsin in this as well.

Oh, and some of you speak French. I think that's nuke territory there, actually. How much would it cost to de-radiate oil? I'll ask Uncle Dick.

Thank you for actually ignoring the sarky-ness and debating with us, btw. If you have seen the depths of depravity that the Caf often comes to on this subject you would see why some of us are a bit jaded in the discussion. Any reference I make to Jewish people as all sorts of things - namechangers, baby blood drinkers, etc, is all stuff that has been seen on the Caf in the last year or so. :nervous: Even aside from the racist stuff, there also seems to be a tendency to just completely ignore the wrongdoing of those attacking Israel, and just pounce on Israel the second they attempt to take any action whatsoever.

:lol:

Terrorism is Terrorism, you have to condemn it wherever you see it. I don't deny the fact that there has been lots of terrorism against Israel but you can't ignore those of Israel's either.
 
Did UN ask the opinion of Palestinians when they decided to create Israel in a land largely populated with Palestinians? .

At the time of the 1947 partition resolution, the Arabs did have a majority in western Palestine as a whole — 1.2 million Arabs versus 600,000 Jews.7 But the Jews were a majority in the area allotted to them by the resolution and in Jerusalem.
 
Thank you for actually ignoring the sarky-ness and debating with us, btw. If you have seen the depths of depravity that the Caf often comes to on this subject you would see why some of us are a bit jaded in the discussion. Any reference I make to Jewish people as all sorts of things - namechangers, baby blood drinkers, etc, is all stuff that has been seen on the Caf in the last year or so. :nervous: Even aside from the racist stuff, there also seems to be a tendency to just completely ignore the wrongdoing of those attacking Israel, and just pounce on Israel the second they attempt to take any action whatsoever.

I was wondering where all that came from. It makes a lot more sense now.
 
Thank you for actually ignoring the sarky-ness and debating with us, btw. If you have seen the depths of depravity that the Caf often comes to on this subject you would see why some of us are a bit jaded in the discussion. Any reference I make to Jewish people as all sorts of things - namechangers, baby blood drinkers, etc, is all stuff that has been seen on the Caf in the last year or so. :nervous: Even aside from the racist stuff, there also seems to be a tendency to just completely ignore the wrongdoing of those attacking Israel, and just pounce on Israel the second they attempt to take any action whatsoever.

:lol:

That's hysterical. Anti-Semitism has always been banned, bad jokes and crappy humour hasn't. Describing it as "depravity", "racist" etc is just silly.
 
:lol:

That's hysterical. Anti-Semitism has always been banned, bad jokes and crappy humour hasn't. Describing it as "depravity", "racist" etc is just silly.

Where would you place arguments of Jewish plots to control the world, Spin?
 
If that's how they act in Gaza

By Ze'ev Schiff

The armed Palestinian organizations in the Gaza Strip are demonstrating once again what has become a norm among the Palestinians - that the agreements to which their leaders commit have no value. It's enough just to listen to Palestinian citizens complaining about how the cease-fire agreements there have no meaning. Agreements are made and signed, and immediately violated.

In this latest round of violence, the warring parties have already decided on a cease-fire five times. Each time, within hours, they were back to killing each other and injuring bystanders in the process. If this is how they behave among themselves, why should they be any more scrupulous in abiding by agreements with outside elements such as Israel, Jordan, Lebanon or Egypt? This is an important lesson that Israel must learn from the recent events in Gaza.

The phenomenon did not originate in Gaza. During the civil war in Lebanon in the 1970s and '80s, the Palestinians agreed to and signed more than 90 cease-fires. Most were violated with terrible bloodshed. The desire to be rid of the Palestinians was the reason that many Shi'ites welcomed the IDF forces that entered Lebanon. The goal of stopping Palestinian unruliness was also one of the reasons behind Hafez Assad's invasion of Lebanon. In Jordan, the Palestinians continued to violate the agreements they reached with King Hussein until he sensed that the government was slipping from his hands. There, too, they caused a civil war in which they were beaten by the Jordanian army. The peak occurred not long ago, when the Palestinians crudely violated the Mecca agreement for the establishment of a Palestinian unity government even before the ink was dry.

It is obvious, therefore, that the Palestinians do not want to, or are not capable of, keeping agreements. They'll always find an excuse or a pretext, even if it ends up hurting them. Some say this happens because the Palestinians have no national entity. But Yasser Arafat had such an entity and controlled a majority of his organizations, and he continuously violated agreements.

Israel has no choice but to continue to seek agreements with the Palestinians, but it also must insist on maintaining broader margins of security. For example, by making every effort in the current situation to isolate the territories of the West Bank from the Gaza Strip and to prevent Hamas from gaining the upper hand in the West Bank. For this reason, most of the security-related sections (the acid tests) in the proposal by the American general Keith Dayton must be rejected.

Another lesson from what is going on in Gaza relates to Egypt. Something strange is happening there. Granted, the Egyptians have improved their efforts to take action against the terrorists in Sinai, but if you compare the Egyptian activity against arms smugglers with the Jordanians' efforts, the Egyptians receive a low mark. Also quite serious is the way the Egyptians are turning a blind eye to Hamas' smuggling of large amounts of money, mostly from Iran, into the Gaza Strip. All they require is that those transferring the money declare the amounts. These funds are not designated for the civilian population in the Gaza Strip but for the establishment of a Hamas army. The sense in Israel is that Egypt is playing a two-faced game in the war on terror.

Meanwhile, the war of attrition between Israel and Hamas is continuing, and it's reasonable to assume that it will expand to other Israeli communities that will come within rocket range. For now, Hamas is notching an achievement versus the citizens of Sderot who are abandoning their city, and against Israel as a whole. The blows Israel inflicts will not be that major, but it's important that they don't let up. A temporary incursion by the IDF deep into certain parts of the Gaza Strip is also a possibility.

Hamas and the other Palestinian organizations, which seek mainly to strike civilian targets in Israel, are now complaining about Palestinian civilians being harmed. Israel mustn't punish Palestinian civilians for the attacks on its communities, but it must return fire immediately to the sources of fire, even if civilians nearby are hurt. This is the most basic and natural right to defense. The fact that Russia was the first one to criticize Israel on this is utterly ridiculous. Israel should be careful not to do in the Gaza Strip what the Russians did with such horrible brutality in Chechnya. The Norwegians, Israel's erstwhile friends, are ignoring what is happening in Sderot. While the Qassams were being launched, they announced a transfer of donations to the Palestinian Authority; money that will surely find its way to Hamas. To the launchers of the Qassams, in other words. With friends like these, you don't need enemies.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/863018.html
 
It's not that we are going to make a difference, but it would certainly help if we sticked to the facts rather than spouted slogans and myths.

To be fair, I think that these discussions do make a difference.

If people are corrected in their mistakes with the facts, they are more likely to spread those facts and correct similar mistakes by others
 
It's not that we are going to make a difference, but it would certainly help if we sticked to the facts rather than spouted slogans and myths.

We should stick to the facts, and we can and should try to make a difference. What's the point of debating about the issue if it is to no avail and doesn't bring about an end to the bloodshed?
 
To be fair, I think that these discussions do make a difference.

If people are corrected in their mistakes with the facts, they are more likely to spread those facts and correct similar mistakes by others

exactly, negotiations and properly understanding each other's positions and viewpoints and finding a common ground are the only way there can be a peaceful solution to all this mess.
 
exactly, negotiations and properly understanding each other's positions and viewpoints and finding a common ground are the only way there can be a peaceful solution to all this mess.

Yeah, that´s the brand new idea... wow, I am amazed. Is it really that easy?...
 
I can not see anything helpful in arguing that Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. It's obviously a lie, or a testimony of utter ignorance, and is used as an argument for portraying Israel is a war mongering country.
For all its faults, Israel is currently fighting a people which was given a chance to express its politcal aspirations democratically and chose the path of a holy war against its neighbour with the ultimate goal being its destruction.
 
Yeah, that´s the brand new idea... wow, I am amazed. Is it really that easy?...

who the feck said it's easy? I'm saying negotiations and dialogue are the only PEACEFUL route to a solution. Killing each other won't help, it will only breed more hatred and prolong this mess. What's your idea of a Peaceful solution other than negotiations and dialogue? Let me hear it Einstein.
 
who the feck it's easy? I'm saying negotiations and dialogue are the only PEACEFUL route to a solution. Killing each other won't help, it will only breed more hatred and prolong this mess. What's your idea of a Peaceful solution other than negotiations and dialogue? Let me hear it Einstein.

E=mc2
 
I can not see anything helpful in arguing that Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. It's obviously a lie, or a testimony of utter ignorance, and is used as an argument for portraying Israel is a war mongering country.
For all its faults, Israel is currently fighting a people which was given a chance to express its politcal aspirations democratically and chose the path of a holy war against its neighbour with the ultimate goal being its destruction.

Hamas don't recognize Israel at the moment BECAUSE it's illegally occupying Palestinian territories, but they've hinted at the recognition if the occupation ends. You can go on saying Hamas don't recognize Israel, why should they when the barbaric occupation continues?
 
Hamas don't recognize Israel at the moment BECAUSE it's illegally occupying Palestinian territories, but they've hinted at the recognition if the occupation ends. You can go on saying Hamas don't recognize Israel, why should they when the barbaric occupation continues?

I do not think that using superlatives such as barbaric are helping a dialogue. Who's "barbaric" in this conflict is open for interpretation, and is a matter of point of view.
As for resolving the conflict, are you suggesting the peaceful way to go on from here is for Israel to give away the territories it captured in 1967 in return for a hint?
 
I do not think that using superlatives such as barbaric are helping a dialogue. Who's "barbaric" in this conflict is open for interpretation, and is a matter of point of view.
As for resolving the conflict, are you suggesting the peaceful way to go on from here is for Israel to give away the territories it captured in 1967 in return for a hint?

Who's barbaric and what's barbaric isn't just a matter of interpretation and point of view, Amnesty International have labelled Israel's military acts in the occupied territories as 'War Crimes', you could call that 'interpretation' and 'point of view' as well.

I'm not suggesting for Israel to give away the occupied territories in return for a hint, but rather show some commitment towards a two-state solution which the whole world backs. Hamas have taken a huge change in attitude from never recognizing Israel to implicitly agreeing to the recognition, what's Israel done in return? Blown up the Hamas offices and arresting the democratically elected members of the Palestinian government at whim.
 
The fact you dismiss antisemitism on this board as crap, does not mean that it does not exist.

The myth of the CE as a place for considered thought about the ME, plus a bunch of whackjob murdering Jews, is a lot easier and more comfortable to deal with than the reality of it.

Baby's blood drinking, name changing, money lending, big nosed, war mongering, international government controlling, WTC destroying, Iraq invading, terrorist, (possibly) shape shifting cnuts - all of you.
 
The myth of the CE as a place for considered thought about the ME, plus a bunch of whackjob murdering Jews, is a lot easier and more comfortable to deal with than the reality of it.

Baby's blood drinking, name changing, money lending, big nosed, war mongering, international government controlling, WTC destroying, Iraq invading, terrorist, (possibly) shape shifting cnuts - all of you.

:lol:

Even more hysterical.

The CE (or indeed the caf) is not a place for considered thought about anything, so if you think other people believe it's so, you're even more deluded than i thought.
 
The fact you dismiss antisemitism on this board as crap, does not mean that it does not exist.

So thinking the world is ruled by a Jewish cabal is anti-semitic, rather than symptomatic of mental illness and crass stupidity?

OK - have it your way.

And to clarify, I said that anti semitism has always been banned, not that it did not exist. I don't think that mentioning cabals is anti-semitism - it's complete rubbish and deserving of ridicule.
 
Antisemitic sentiments have been expressed on the board, and not always resulted in bans. The thing is the the when the individuals in question are warned, and continue posting one has to realise that future posts that are Israel-related most probably are influenced by the sentiments even if the poster does not refer to Jews as the Spielbergs.

Antisemitism on this board deserves ridicule and that's exactly what it gets. Personally, I have never reported any antisemitic comment to the mods. I just think that overall rdiculing antisemitism unless it involves physical attacks is dangerous. Words are more dangerous etc...
 
So thinking the world is ruled by a Jewish cabal is anti-semitic, rather than symptomatic of mental illness and crass stupidity?

OK - have it your way.

And to clarify, I said that anti semitism has always been banned, not that it did not exist. I don't think that mentioning cabals is anti-semitism - it's complete rubbish and deserving of ridicule.

Plech got angry at me last year for making fun of the Jewish Cabal people. Apparently I should be reasoning with them because they were the "reasonable" ones. Is it fashionable to mock them again?

Antisemitism hasn't always been banned either. It has frequently been allowed to carry on until it spins wildly out of control, or covered up and made excuses for.

If it makes you feel better by calling us hysterical or pretending there isn't any bias, then go for it.
 
:lol:

Even more hysterical.

The CE (or indeed the caf) is not a place for considered thought about anything, so if you think other people believe it's so, you're even more deluded than i thought.

Everything except the shape-shifting has been said on the Caf before.

And some of those people are still around.

How exactly is it "hysterical" to point out what has been said?

I realise it is a lot easier to simply call someone hysterical than admit they are right.
 
Everything except the shape-shifting has been said on the Caf before.

And some of those people are still around.

How exactly is it "hysterical" to point out what has been said?

I realise it is a lot easier to simply call someone hysterical than admit they are right.

It's hysterical to call it antisemitism. You're not just pointing it out, you're labelling it. And it's hysterical to think that this place is actually a serious discussion forum.

The problem with you and the cabal thing was that it was more deserving of ridicule, which dismisses it and makes it inconsequential, than banning and getting panties in a twist about, since that elevates it to something serious.

Histrionics may be entertaining sometimes, but not always.
 
Plech got angry at me last year for making fun of the Jewish Cabal people. Apparently I should be reasoning with them because they were the "reasonable" ones. Is it fashionable to mock them again?

Antisemitism hasn't always been banned either. It has frequently been allowed to carry on until it spins wildly out of control, or covered up and made excuses for.

If it makes you feel better by calling us hysterical or pretending there isn't any bias, then go for it.

Well, cite some instances, with posts and so on.
 
Its all histrionics apparently. Do your own research if you don't believe me that these name-changing, et al, people aren't out there.

Again, you want it to be inconsequential and irrelevant, and me to be hysterical for pointing it out and mocking it, when it is actually indicative of what appears to be a growing trend in your part of the world.

Easier to write it off and shoot the messenger than admit there is a problem.