I'd imagine it's a perverse sort of curiosity for a lot of people.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
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I'd imagine it's a perverse sort of curiosity for a lot of people.
Simply reading about what happened to this man is enough to make the stomach churn, but the video is something else. If more people watched these videos, more people would appreciate the absolute barbarity of the religious texts that inspire them. Maybe this particular video isn't a good example because the absolute horrendous nature of burning someone to death is pretty much sufficiently comprehensible in its simplest description, but more generally it is important to see what these people are doing for the following reason. The West is full of liberal zombies walking around quoting propaganda about 'historical context' when it comes to the life and violence of the so called prophet Muhammad.... if these people could see the depravity of a beheading, for example, with their own eyes, maybe they would wake up to the fact that Muhammad was a cold blooded monster for beheading thousands, rather than a man we merely have to view if his 'historical context'. And from that, maybe they would see that the cult-like devotion to him that infects much of the world is to blame for the events we are seeing in the Islamic state.
These videos are reenactments of passages the Quran. People may be able to overlook violent text passages, but they will find it much more difficult to overlook them in their graphic form.
So Jordan has started off its revenge executions by killing at least one of the prisoners it was hoping to swap for their now deceased pilot. This is not something that should go without condemnation, IMO. Civilised countries should not act in this manner.
As deplorable as this killing is and as much as I dislike religion lets get some perspective in here. Have you seen videos of American soldiers doing sick shit in Iraq or what happens when a predator or hellfire drone missle hits some kids?
My point is not America is evil etc. but that to solve this problem we need to go really deep and figure out their funding, leadership and goals and although religion plays a part, it's far from the only problem here.
My point is not America is evil etc. but that to solve this problem we need to go really deep and figure out their funding, leadership and goals and although religion plays a part, it's far from the only problem here.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/pilot-murder-jordan-anti-isis-campaign
According to a poll last September by the Centre for Strategic Studies at the University of Jordan, only 62% of Jordanians consider Isis to be a terrorist organization.
...
But the campaign generated mixed feelings at home from the start. A popular Twitter hashtag #thiswarisnotourwar makes the point succinctly. “Isis sympathisers feel injustice and anger at America and Israel and always felt that Islam was under attack by Crusaders,” Muin Khoury, a leading Jordanian pollster, told the Guardian recently. “And now they don’t agree with Jordan being involved in the coalition.”
...
Discontent became more voluble after Kasasbeh’s capture when his F16 came down near Raqqa on Christmas Eve, especially among his powerful tribe, one of several which form the loyal backbone of the Jordanian armed forces and security services. In his home town of Kerak, dozens of people protested, chanting anti-coalition slogans and calling on the king to pull out of the campaign against Isis.
Abdullah moved quickly to reassure the pilot’s family that everything was being done to secure his release. But even as he comforted Kasasbeh’s parents and wife in the royal palace in the capital, demonstrations took place outside without the police intervening – something that would be unthinkable in normal times.
According to a poll last September by the Centre for Strategic Studies at the University of Jordan, only 62% of Jordanians consider Isis to be a terrorist organization.
...
But the campaign generated mixed feelings at home from the start. A popular Twitter hashtag #thiswarisnotourwar makes the point succinctly. “Isis sympathisers feel injustice and anger at America and Israel and always felt that Islam was under attack by Crusaders,” Muin Khoury, a leading Jordanian pollster, told the Guardian recently. “And now they don’t agree with Jordan being involved in the coalition.”
...
Discontent became more voluble after Kasasbeh’s capture when his F16 came down near Raqqa on Christmas Eve, especially among his powerful tribe, one of several which form the loyal backbone of the Jordanian armed forces and security services. In his home town of Kerak, dozens of people protested, chanting anti-coalition slogans and calling on the king to pull out of the campaign against Isis.
Abdullah moved quickly to reassure the pilot’s family that everything was being done to secure his release. But even as he comforted Kasasbeh’s parents and wife in the royal palace in the capital, demonstrations took place outside without the police intervening – something that would be unthinkable in normal times.
First burning and then rubbled dump onto him, It seems they wanted to give him the same treatment or feeling that dropped bomb cause.
Absolute horrific. Wish I never saw the video. Fecking cnuts.
Absolute horrific. Wish I never saw the video. Fecking cnuts.
I think that doesn't come without its collateral damage.
Your favourite Jordanian hasn't posted in a while. Any idea what's the latest with him?
Civilised countries don't.
I really wish you would stop driving home the same point. Religion doesn't cause this violence, the very nature of man does. If you think the abolishing of religion will stop murder, massacre and barbarism you need to pick up a history book.
The religion in this situation is just a differentiator for these people. Like Ayranism for Nazis, Class for Khamer Rouge or Idealogue for Stalin.
If we abolished religion would less people die?
The past says no.
If we eliminated religion, yes, less people would die. Well, as long as we eliminated language differences, ethnic diversity, economic disparity, or anything that would mark one person as slightly different from another and replace religion as the prime, over simplified signifier of or justification for conflict.
Seriously? It's clearly not as simple as religion, but are you really saying religion has no role in causing this violence?
You'll never abolish religion but you can reform aspects of it.
I disagree but it's a moot point anyways. Religion plays a big part in ISIS's core motivations and the motivations of other extremist groups. Sayid Qutb anyone?
Exactly.
Don't know of many wars being fought over grammar but I'm sure Chomsky would be the commander on one side.
Ethnic diversity is slowly going extinct anyways as most forward thinking people today don't choose potential partners based on ethnicity resulting in more mixed kids. People are inherently tribal and differences stand out more than similarities bring people together. Do you think getting rid of iron age belief systems based on a sky daddy and eternal hellfire in the 21st century is a bad idea?Don't know of many wars being fought over grammar but I'm sure Chomsky would be the commander on one side.
Language, or a lack of a discernible written language, has been utilized to demonize certain populations. Its built upon the idea that they are heathens mind you, but its still part of the process by which humans can be turned into animals by oppressors, who in turn justify their elimination of those peoples through war
And yes, I do tend to think that we would be better off without religion or at least a different form of religious belief, but I'm not necessarily anti-religious. My point is merely that we should never underestimate humanity's ability to find reasons to hate one another. We're quite advanced in that regard
I don't think that we would all become kumbaya and trip out on acid while having orgies if religion ceased to exist . I agree that our capacity for destruction and violence is quite extraordinary. In the case of ISIS though to get the topic back on track, religion is a huge mothafracking problem.
Yeah, I think I kind of misinterpreted your original comment/question. Don't know how, it was quite simple looking back, but I thought you were implying something more extreme than you actually were. The sheer violence of the war is exacerbated by religious division, no doubt, which also drives political division, and makes ethnic differences that much more important and apparent.
Please don't reduce this to an Illuminati argument. It is simply political pragmatism.
The threat from Islamic extremism is virtually naught, so little in fact that the government continue to cut the counter terrorism budget, this time by 50%, to a massive £15m a year!
Work out the figures for yourself. The London tube bomb was in 2005. What has the threat level been in the UK over the last ten years?
Perhaps you enjoy the hysteria in some perverse way, I don't know. I don't buy into it, however.
'The West' hasn't become some opaque term either, it is Western Europe and America. It shouldn't encompass whatever other Middle Eastern states might be our politically pragmatic allies at a given time.
And we don't care about the vast vast majority of atrocities that happen across the world. Verbally condemning an atrocity to colleagues or on an online forum does not equate to caring. How did you sleep last night?
There are some Western people that do genuinely care, they go out there on the ground to try and make a difference, risking their lives. These are people are very few and far between, however.
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The idea that most killings in history of mankind have been caused by religion is factually false. Most wars have been conducted in the pursuit of land, supremacy, profits, power, or tribal supremacy. Religion do get caught up in those pursuits. However, there is a counter argument that religion has also moderated those forces. To billions of people belief of religious conviction often provides compelling reasons for refusing to kill or hurt another being or for seeking peace.
Probably the truth is religion or lack of are actually cultural variables, but killing is a human constant.
Probably the truth is religion or lack of are actually cultural variables, but killing is a human constant.
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Exactly what they wanted to do.
While I agree that religion being the sole cause of most killings or wars is simply false and also agree that killing does seems to be a human constant.(We are after all evolved primates and as Hitchens said it shows.)
However the counter argument you put forward is pretty weak to say the least(And impossible to prove), if religion is the only reason(Or at least plays a part) to why these billions of people aren't massacring everyone around them, then we are in big trouble as a species. Also let's not forget that these 'Holy Books' give enough throwaway reasons to kill anyone for anything(I think the stronger argument is that we are lucky most people don't follow these books to a tee).
Religion like any ideology(Although I would argue Religion along with Nationalism has more influence than any other ideology in the world) has a habit of making everyday normal people do wicked and evil things.
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...and also some amazingly great things.
Agreed, disappointing to see Jordan taking that approach. Will be interesting to see what leaders of other major countries involved have said about it.
I don't know how this post has gone unnoticed. It's absolutely insane.
Because most people have him on ignore, I would imagine.
It's probably been discussed in here before but anyone interested in the conflicts in the Middle East should watch Bitter Lake on the BBC iPlayer, It's by Adam Curtis and attempts to explain how USA, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia and the arab world got to the mess that it is now. It's only on iPlayer though so I only just watched it last night & It does a great job to convey the complexity and nuance of what happened & how the simplistic black and white, good and evil narrative that's often used by Western leaders and western media doesn't give a true picture of the complicated political and religious history of the middle east.. Pretty grim in parts but fascinating throughout.
Trailer here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurti...a-85807434a38e
Full Documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...is-bitter-lake
Trailer here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurti...a-85807434a38e
Full Documentary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...is-bitter-lake
Cheers, I really should get to know the topic better. Hope its better than Curtis' usual stuff.
I have no problems with anyone's beliefs or religion but it is always going to be an issue if people take it too seriously. If you are raised in countries where it's seen as ok to stone people to death or decapitate people with swords how on earth do you expect groups like this to have any respect for human life? It's 2015 ffs and it's about time the Middle East progressed from the Dark Ages. These are places that still believe in witchcraft so it's no surprise they are burning people alive. What an ignorant land they all live in.
What on earth are you talking about?
The us created and supplied Isis? The Middle East needs people like saddam and Assad?
We did supply ISIS, we sent them plenty of weapons and our special forces gave them training while they were fighting Assad. The middle east was also more stable and arguably more "safe" with Dictators like Sadam in power. Look at Libya, Iraq and now Syria.
I have no idea why you found my post horrifying.
For those who say its America's fault that ISIS has grown so strongly and caused so much violence, what about Boko Haram? How much American involvement is there in Nigeria regarding these groups? They are just as bad and powerful as ISIS.
Not really a credible argument. America could be involved in one but not the other.
The United States sent weapons to the free syrian army after Assad used chemical weapons on civilians. You know, the same Assad you want to be in power? The U.S. also sent weapons to Kurdish fighters. Some of those weapons ended up in the hands of ISIS but for you to say the U.S. "created and supplied ISIS" is asinine and disingenuous. Worse still is support for saddam, who also used chemical weapons on civilians.
I'm thinking about the people who say ISIS is an American invention and all that crap. They refuse to deny that it's anything else like Islam or the general issues in a country. It always has to be Washington that is at fault. Yet we see parallels of ISIS in Boko Haram. Just a thought tbh.
There is a thought that US's foreign intervention and policy has indirectly caused the rise in groups such as ISIS. @Eboue and others.
Intervention and support for the very dictators that sonny wants back.