Yep, after spending much of the past decade in warzones, i agree.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
An investigation by Al-Abadi into the army has found that there are 50,000 "ghost soldiers" registered and receive salaries every month, but they do not exist in reality. 50,000 fecking "soldiers". That's a lot of wasted money, yet money is still not the main concern here.
Ironically, most of the new volunteers fighting ISIS right now haven't received any money since joining the army (in June). Until today.
Ironically, most of the new volunteers fighting ISIS right now haven't received any money since joining the army (in June). Until today.
Earlier there were reports of thousands of soldiers completely vanishing and the army not knowing whats up. I guess that explains it.
Who's "rocking" Raqqah these days? The Syrian Air Force? The US Air Force? The Brits? French?
Probably the Americans.
One of the Indians who went to fight for them returned home a few days back. They have held him for interrogation under some sections of Indian penal code for now, but don't know how long can they hold him. There is a real danger in these radicalized people returning home and waging some kind of war, either by radicalizing and recruiting more youth or by indulging in direct terrorist activities.
How is the west dealing with ISIS fighters returning to their home countries?
How is the west dealing with ISIS fighters returning to their home countries?
I think the UK have banned them from returning.
That is best option. Don't think it will be possible in our country with all the political and religious considerations.
The SOHR are just a joke of an organisation. Its run by one Syrian dissident clown in his Coventry apartment who for some reason is treated as the sole gospel from most media outlets.
Whenever the Syrian airforce bombs ISIS targets (as it has heavily in the last couple of days) its described as an indiscriminate barrel bombing, whenever the US does it its always precision strikes.
Whenever the Syrian airforce bombs ISIS targets (as it has heavily in the last couple of days) its described as an indiscriminate barrel bombing, whenever the US does it its always precision strikes.
I reckon the trick is getting awarded the Nobel peace prize first, before getting on with pounding or "rocking" civilian populations.
Probably because Syrian forces have used barrel bombs and the US uses precision airstrikes.
Yeah but that's not my point, I'm referring to the fact 'SOHR' uses selective and quite frankly fabricated statements. It calls every SAA strike an indiscriminate civilian attack where it chooses to purposefully ignore the crimes committed by their mates from Al-Nusra. Its worrying that the media and state officials are using it as a source of reports from the conflict.
Another ISIS attack on the border crossing of Kobane, from the Turkish side, has been repelled by the YPG.
Is that official? I thought they were arresting them?
There is also talk of revoking UK citizenship, but its a bit of a minefield.
@Insanity : in germany they get arrested and prosecuted. Its illegal to join organisations like this. The legistaltion is most european countries is somewhat similar, because it follows eu guidelines.
Probably because the usa declares that everyone they hit was/is a combatant. Even the 7 year old Aischa can surely hold an AK47.
Probably because the usa declares that everyone they hit was/is a combatant. Even the 7 year old Aischa can surely hold an AK47.
Where does it say that ?
well....if you only hit combatans its easy to label your attacks as "precision airstrikes", while those evil dictators always indiscriminately bomb everyone and kill civilians.
Precision airstrikes refers to the technology behind the targeting. Laser guided bombs etc.
thanks for clearing this up. Who would have known.
Your statements are usually murky to me. Nothing special about that. This one was just particularly ignorant.
I asked for you to cite where you got the bit about everyone is a combatant from. Can you provide that ?
you should understand the logic behind it. Obviously they dont litterarily label every single person as terrorist/militant/combatant. Just everyone they can without looking like complete idiots, which is everyone as long as there is no evidence against such a statement.
The word "precision strike" is also a good example how language is used to control the perception of people. In the 90s (first gulf war?) some genius invented new terms for war, that compare military operations with surgical procedure. Its a brilliant move to let peope believe that you only kill the bad guys. War loses almost all of its horror. Obviously thats mostely bollocks, but even Göbbels would have been proud of such a PR stunt. Its one of the reasons why americans dont feel any remorse while killing incredible amounts of people; they really think that the overwhelming majority of dead people are terrorists/combatants/militants or just "up to no good". There is much more to that but I am too lazy to waste my time with writting essays, that you will just laugh off anyway. Following ideology without really realizing it is fairly dangerous.
The problem with bombs isnt that they are missing their target all the time, but them having a significant kill-radius. If you bombard a town like Raqqa you´ll inevitably kill people, who are not targets even if you hit 100% of your targets. An even bigger problem is, that you eventually dont know where/who to bomb in the first place in such an area - at least not with "precision". Having "fancy" laser guidance is helping very little.
Syrian Christians: 'Help us to stay - stop arming terrorists'
Christianity is being extinguished in the land of its birth and the West is to blame, say Syria's faithful
Outgoing artillery shook St Elias church as the priest reached the end of the Lord's Prayer.
The small congregation kept their eyes on the pulpit, kneeling when required and trying to ignore the regular thuds that rattled the stained glass windows above them.
Home to one of the oldest Christian communities in the world, the hard to reach Syrian agricultural town of Izraa has stood the comings and goings of many empires over the centuries.
But as the country's civil war creeps closer, it is threatening to force the town's Christians into permanent exile: never to return, they fear.
"I have been coming to this church since I was born," said Afaf Azam, 52. "But now the situation is very bad. Everyone is afraid. Jihadists control villages around us."
A Canaanite city that was mentioned in the Bible, Izraa has lived through Persian and Arab rule, with St Elias's Church being built in 542AD - 28 years before the birth of the Prophet Mohammed in Mecca.
During the past four years of Syria's war, its Christian population has largely stayed put, despite the war destroying much of the surrounding province of Deraa.
In the last two weeks however, men from the al-Qaeda linked Jabhat al-Nusra and other rebel groups have captured the nearby towns of Nawa and al-Sheikh Maskin, bringing the frontline to less than two miles away. They are now trying to assault Izraa.
Some of the rebels were vetted by the CIA as "moderate Muslims" and subsequently trained and armed in Jordan, as part of a US-led program to bolster a non-sectarian opposition to President Bashar-Assad.
But past experience has rendered such distinctions irrelevant to Izraa's Christians. After all, in Syria - and on this frontline - the "moderates" continue to work in alliance with Nusra. And the conquest of other Christian villages by the opposition has shown that more moderate factions frequently do little to stop the jihadists imposing their will.
"It's simple," said Father Elias Hanout, 38, who led the prayers at Sunday's service. "If the West wants Syria to remain a country for Christian people, then help us to stay here; stop arming terrorists."
The pews were sparsely occupied for last Sunday's service in St Elias, with the choir missing its tenors and altos. Mrs Azam, who led the hymns, was reluctant to acknowledge the exodus at first, saying the singers were absent "because of work". But as the tempo of the falling shells increased outside, she admitted: "People from here are leaving. Many are applying to emigrate."
Exactly how many Christians have left Syria is difficult to say, but according to the Christian charity Open Doors, some 700,000 have left the country, which equates to some 40 per cent of Syria's pre-war Christian population.
Christian leaders in the country warn of an exodus on the scale of Iraq, where the 1.5 million-strong community that lived there prior to the first Gulf War is now down to as little as a tenth of its former size.
The threat to towns like Izraa will be uppermost in the mind of the Pope during his visit to Turkey this week, amid warnings from Christian leaders worldwide that their religion might soon lose its foothold in the very region where it was born.
Looking around his 1,500 year old church, Mr Hanout warned: "In this land the Word started. And if you delete the Word here, then Christianity across the world will have no future."
Evidence of the Church's heritage is everywhere in Izraa's narrow streets. Across from St Elias, lies the chapel of St George, an octagonal stone building that is said to be one of the most ancient churches in the world. Dating to 515 AD, it was originally converted from a pagan temple, and an inscription on its stone lintel reads: "Hymns of cherubs replaced sacrifices offered to idols and God settles here in peace, where people used to anger him."
Today, Izraa remains a mixed down of both Christians and Muslims. And in early 2011, when the uprising in Syria was defined by popular protests rather than war, a small number of Christians had welcomed the calls for regime change.
That changed when the Islamists began to dominate the rebel ranks.
"Nobody wants these men to advance," said one resident said, who asked not to be named. "They are frightened of their town being overrun by Islamists,"
Instead Izraa's Christians have sought solace in the government's defences, and increasingly blame the West for their suffering.
Mrs Azam added: "When evil comes you have to defend your country. We love our government, just as we love our country."
The picture in Izraa is one repeated across other Christian pockets of Syria. Christian homes in Deir Ezzour, Raqqa, and in Hassakeh, home to the Syriac Christians, the oldest denomination on earth, are all devoid of their inhabitants. From Homs too, a major Christian stronghold, many have left.
Some Christian residents initially remained in the Christian town of Ghassaniyeh in northern Latakia province when it first fell to the rebels in mid-2012. A few weeks later however, Islamic extremists took control of the terrain. Christian men were kidnapped, captured or forced to flee. They desecrated the church, ransacked homes and murdered the priest.
Even in Bab Touma, the Christian quarter in the old city of Damascus, residents told the Telegraph they were looking to leave.
Eva Astefan, 43, said she applied to the United Nations for asylum, after her 14-year-old daughter, Adel was shot and killed by a rebel sniper in 2012.
The family had been driving down the highway back to Damascus after attending the "Feast of the Holy Cross" in nearby Maaloula, when a hail of bullets pierced their vehicle, one entering her daughter's skull who was sitting in the back.
Mrs Astefan's nephew, Joseph Haroun, 29, said: "Its our country and we love it, but we feel we have little choice.
"The terrorists - referring to the opposition rebels - kidnap and kill our men and dangle the holy cross over their bodies."
It is not just Christian's who are suffering. The war in Syria is political as well as sectarian, and, as it draws closer to Izraa, the town's schools and municipal offices have become impromptu shelters for thousands of refugees from all sects.
Only a small number of the fighters near Izraa are from Nusra, with many of those fighting coming from local Sunni families.
Abo Mohammed, a frail Sunni man in his early sixties - who spoke using a pseudonym - told how of men who were his neighbours, fellow Sunnis, killed his "whole family" in revenge because his son is serving in the Syrian military.
"They entered our house in al-Sheikh Maskin and attacked my son, my brother, my brother's children and my nephew. They broke their arms and legs and then threw them from the roof. I am the only one who escaped," he said, tears welling in his eyes.
It is precisely because al-Qaeda is weak in the south of Syria, that the West and its allies have concentrated on sending weapons to rebels in this area.
Residents from other sects have been able to return to their homes, even when they are in rebel control, but Christians fear that if they leave and their town is then captured by the opposition - even one led by western trained groups - they will never be able to return.
So, they put their hopes in the Syrian military that is now protecting the town. At the main entrance to the town are sandbagged army checkpoints, plastered with posters of President Bashar al-Assad. Military vehicles, laden with weapons, drive full-pelt across the intersection down the road that marks the beginning of the frontline.
In Izraa, shop fronts have been painted in the Syrian flag to rouse nationalist fervour, the graffiti of past anti-government protests has been scrubbed out or painted over.
Instead, the sense is of having been abandoned by other "Christian nations" such as America and Britain, no matter what the promises of their leaders are.
As another priest in Izraa, who asked not to be named, put it: "Please tell Mr Cameron, we don't want any help or donations - but please, equally, stop arming terrorists."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-Help-us-to-stay-stop-arming-terrorists.html
Christianity is being extinguished in the land of its birth and the West is to blame, say Syria's faithful
Outgoing artillery shook St Elias church as the priest reached the end of the Lord's Prayer.
The small congregation kept their eyes on the pulpit, kneeling when required and trying to ignore the regular thuds that rattled the stained glass windows above them.
Home to one of the oldest Christian communities in the world, the hard to reach Syrian agricultural town of Izraa has stood the comings and goings of many empires over the centuries.
But as the country's civil war creeps closer, it is threatening to force the town's Christians into permanent exile: never to return, they fear.
"I have been coming to this church since I was born," said Afaf Azam, 52. "But now the situation is very bad. Everyone is afraid. Jihadists control villages around us."
A Canaanite city that was mentioned in the Bible, Izraa has lived through Persian and Arab rule, with St Elias's Church being built in 542AD - 28 years before the birth of the Prophet Mohammed in Mecca.
During the past four years of Syria's war, its Christian population has largely stayed put, despite the war destroying much of the surrounding province of Deraa.
In the last two weeks however, men from the al-Qaeda linked Jabhat al-Nusra and other rebel groups have captured the nearby towns of Nawa and al-Sheikh Maskin, bringing the frontline to less than two miles away. They are now trying to assault Izraa.
Some of the rebels were vetted by the CIA as "moderate Muslims" and subsequently trained and armed in Jordan, as part of a US-led program to bolster a non-sectarian opposition to President Bashar-Assad.
But past experience has rendered such distinctions irrelevant to Izraa's Christians. After all, in Syria - and on this frontline - the "moderates" continue to work in alliance with Nusra. And the conquest of other Christian villages by the opposition has shown that more moderate factions frequently do little to stop the jihadists imposing their will.
"It's simple," said Father Elias Hanout, 38, who led the prayers at Sunday's service. "If the West wants Syria to remain a country for Christian people, then help us to stay here; stop arming terrorists."
The pews were sparsely occupied for last Sunday's service in St Elias, with the choir missing its tenors and altos. Mrs Azam, who led the hymns, was reluctant to acknowledge the exodus at first, saying the singers were absent "because of work". But as the tempo of the falling shells increased outside, she admitted: "People from here are leaving. Many are applying to emigrate."
Exactly how many Christians have left Syria is difficult to say, but according to the Christian charity Open Doors, some 700,000 have left the country, which equates to some 40 per cent of Syria's pre-war Christian population.
Christian leaders in the country warn of an exodus on the scale of Iraq, where the 1.5 million-strong community that lived there prior to the first Gulf War is now down to as little as a tenth of its former size.
The threat to towns like Izraa will be uppermost in the mind of the Pope during his visit to Turkey this week, amid warnings from Christian leaders worldwide that their religion might soon lose its foothold in the very region where it was born.
Looking around his 1,500 year old church, Mr Hanout warned: "In this land the Word started. And if you delete the Word here, then Christianity across the world will have no future."
Evidence of the Church's heritage is everywhere in Izraa's narrow streets. Across from St Elias, lies the chapel of St George, an octagonal stone building that is said to be one of the most ancient churches in the world. Dating to 515 AD, it was originally converted from a pagan temple, and an inscription on its stone lintel reads: "Hymns of cherubs replaced sacrifices offered to idols and God settles here in peace, where people used to anger him."
Today, Izraa remains a mixed down of both Christians and Muslims. And in early 2011, when the uprising in Syria was defined by popular protests rather than war, a small number of Christians had welcomed the calls for regime change.
That changed when the Islamists began to dominate the rebel ranks.
"Nobody wants these men to advance," said one resident said, who asked not to be named. "They are frightened of their town being overrun by Islamists,"
Instead Izraa's Christians have sought solace in the government's defences, and increasingly blame the West for their suffering.
Mrs Azam added: "When evil comes you have to defend your country. We love our government, just as we love our country."
The picture in Izraa is one repeated across other Christian pockets of Syria. Christian homes in Deir Ezzour, Raqqa, and in Hassakeh, home to the Syriac Christians, the oldest denomination on earth, are all devoid of their inhabitants. From Homs too, a major Christian stronghold, many have left.
Some Christian residents initially remained in the Christian town of Ghassaniyeh in northern Latakia province when it first fell to the rebels in mid-2012. A few weeks later however, Islamic extremists took control of the terrain. Christian men were kidnapped, captured or forced to flee. They desecrated the church, ransacked homes and murdered the priest.
Even in Bab Touma, the Christian quarter in the old city of Damascus, residents told the Telegraph they were looking to leave.
Eva Astefan, 43, said she applied to the United Nations for asylum, after her 14-year-old daughter, Adel was shot and killed by a rebel sniper in 2012.
The family had been driving down the highway back to Damascus after attending the "Feast of the Holy Cross" in nearby Maaloula, when a hail of bullets pierced their vehicle, one entering her daughter's skull who was sitting in the back.
Mrs Astefan's nephew, Joseph Haroun, 29, said: "Its our country and we love it, but we feel we have little choice.
"The terrorists - referring to the opposition rebels - kidnap and kill our men and dangle the holy cross over their bodies."
It is not just Christian's who are suffering. The war in Syria is political as well as sectarian, and, as it draws closer to Izraa, the town's schools and municipal offices have become impromptu shelters for thousands of refugees from all sects.
Only a small number of the fighters near Izraa are from Nusra, with many of those fighting coming from local Sunni families.
Abo Mohammed, a frail Sunni man in his early sixties - who spoke using a pseudonym - told how of men who were his neighbours, fellow Sunnis, killed his "whole family" in revenge because his son is serving in the Syrian military.
"They entered our house in al-Sheikh Maskin and attacked my son, my brother, my brother's children and my nephew. They broke their arms and legs and then threw them from the roof. I am the only one who escaped," he said, tears welling in his eyes.
It is precisely because al-Qaeda is weak in the south of Syria, that the West and its allies have concentrated on sending weapons to rebels in this area.
Residents from other sects have been able to return to their homes, even when they are in rebel control, but Christians fear that if they leave and their town is then captured by the opposition - even one led by western trained groups - they will never be able to return.
So, they put their hopes in the Syrian military that is now protecting the town. At the main entrance to the town are sandbagged army checkpoints, plastered with posters of President Bashar al-Assad. Military vehicles, laden with weapons, drive full-pelt across the intersection down the road that marks the beginning of the frontline.
In Izraa, shop fronts have been painted in the Syrian flag to rouse nationalist fervour, the graffiti of past anti-government protests has been scrubbed out or painted over.
Instead, the sense is of having been abandoned by other "Christian nations" such as America and Britain, no matter what the promises of their leaders are.
As another priest in Izraa, who asked not to be named, put it: "Please tell Mr Cameron, we don't want any help or donations - but please, equally, stop arming terrorists."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-Help-us-to-stay-stop-arming-terrorists.html
Quick news from the last few days:
- One of Al-Baghdadi's wife and a son of his were arrested by the Lebanese security forces near the Lebanese-Syrian border. Apparently he has three wives, two Iraqi and one Syrian (which is the one thought to be caught).. Worth mentioning here is that the Lebanese security forces announced weeks ago that they arrested somebody important but they didn't say who it was. Probably that's who it was.
- ISIS blocked all mobile phone networks in Mosul because "it's being used by the enemies and the collaborators with the enemies to get/leak important information" about the organisation and its fighters. Mosul is the only province where they can do this because it's the only province where they have near total control over it.
- The Iraqi security forces arrested a high level officer in the army in Baghdad for collaborating with ISIS and giving them important information about the movements of the army.
- A deal has been reached between Baghdad and Kurdistan about the export of oil from Kirkuk and Kurdistan. According to the deal all oil (a minimum of 550,000 barrels per day total) will be exported through the central government, and in exchange Kurdistan will receive 17% of the national budget and an extra $1 billion to fund the Peshmerga. A welcome step forward.
- One of Al-Baghdadi's wife and a son of his were arrested by the Lebanese security forces near the Lebanese-Syrian border. Apparently he has three wives, two Iraqi and one Syrian (which is the one thought to be caught).. Worth mentioning here is that the Lebanese security forces announced weeks ago that they arrested somebody important but they didn't say who it was. Probably that's who it was.
- ISIS blocked all mobile phone networks in Mosul because "it's being used by the enemies and the collaborators with the enemies to get/leak important information" about the organisation and its fighters. Mosul is the only province where they can do this because it's the only province where they have near total control over it.
- The Iraqi security forces arrested a high level officer in the army in Baghdad for collaborating with ISIS and giving them important information about the movements of the army.
- A deal has been reached between Baghdad and Kurdistan about the export of oil from Kirkuk and Kurdistan. According to the deal all oil (a minimum of 550,000 barrels per day total) will be exported through the central government, and in exchange Kurdistan will receive 17% of the national budget and an extra $1 billion to fund the Peshmerga. A welcome step forward.
This form of collective punishment is sickening.
Well, they were using fake IDs to enter Lebanon, so they have every legal right to arrest them. Let alone the fact that they might have valuable information that could save the lives of thousands of people, or at least could help freeing some of the 3000 Yazidi women that were enslaved by Baghdadi.
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Fair enough. Why would they need fake IDs though? They have done nothing wrong, after all.
Interesting that you make such a quick judgement sitting on your sofa from thousands of kilometers away. And rest assured my friend, they're not going to be enslaved if that's what's you're worried about. Nor executed by the way.
Most probably they will end up being exchanged for some women/prisoners which Al-Baghdadi holds captive/is enslaving.
Firstly, I wish I was thousands of kms away from Lebanon. But then, I wouldn't want to pass judgement on how other countries deal with terrorism. Certainly not from a sofa 1000s of kms away.
Then, I would have no complaints about the treatment those two infiltrators get. Bargaining chips sounds fair enough from here, only 100s of kms away.
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Apparently Iranian planes carrying out raids in Diyala.
I don't quite get what you're trying to say here.
Lebanon is where they were caught, not where they probably have committed their crimes (most probably in Raqqa and Mosul).
If they're guilty of only faking documents then fair enough they should be charged with that crime only, and not be used as pawns in prisoner exchanges. Lebanese authorities should hold to higher values than ISIS or other terrorist organisations.
I'm glad you think collective punishment is sick. Even if said with a massive dose of sarcasm.
By the way, the reports are still not 100% confirmed that she's Al-Baghdadi's wife. The Iraqi intelligence now seem to deny that she's one of Al-Baghdadi's wives, but rather a wanted terrorist, and gave more information about her. Her brother is also in prison in Iraq for taking part in a terrorist operations in Basra and Nasiriyah, and her sister was also detained after trying to execute a suicide attack (she's currently detained in Kurdistan). Her father works as a leader in Al-Nusra Front in Syria.
It was the wife of a JAN commander
HR is being sarcastic. He is trying link this with Israel's policy of using collective punishment, and whilst they get criticised others don't. You should know his obsessive nature by now, Danny.
I know where he was going but I wanted him to say it.
Yep, they've been bombing Diyala with their American F4 Phantom Jets
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...to-iraqi-airspace-for-first-time-9899487.html
I'm not sure if that obsession is just with HR or the general population of Israel. They have some of the most progressive people, best military, and weapons in the world, and still cannot have peace of mind, and a sense of security.