Yeah, only way through is Turkey. There are Peshmerga on standby, with Barzani having requested their entrance into Kobane, via Turkey. So that could happen too.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
Out of interest what is turkeys policy on any kurdish fighters who might have to flee should the city fall to isis
Would they let them through the border or would they halt a retreat?
I think some YPG fighters have been treated in Turkish hospitals. Then again so were ISIS fighters on different fronts.
I don't know about the situation if they decide to flee, I don't think that comes into the minds of YPG fighters.
Interesting and selective choices of words there.
How about gunning down 70 odd "Sunnis" in a mosque in Diyala, beheading "Sunni" civilians, killing hundreds of Sunni prisoners by gunning down or directly setting them on fire. Or in Assad's case regularly dropping barrel bombs on residential areas and markets, kidnapping and detaining thousands of " Sunni" civilians in secret facilities raping and torturing them to death.
And its not like this are one off incidents. Its been a regular occurrence over past few years in both Iraq and Syria.
Is this all you consider a lesser evil ? Or it became lesser evil for you just because Sunnis are bearing the brunt here ?
Shias used to drill the heads of anyone named Umar, Abu Bakr or Uthman. In one case, I think in Yemen, they gathered all the girls who were named Aysha and raped them in a warehouse before burning them.
Muslims vs Kurds fighting going on, but the Muslims will probably be called pro-isis protesters lol
Its not the religion that is the problem - its the nutters that do the "justifying"
Kurds are mostly Muslim also...
what do we call it then
Salafis vs Kurds in the Germany case.
Sunni Islamist group, some of which are Kurds (Huda Par) vs Kurds in Turkey.
so many groups, now i understand why they paint em all with the same brush.
Did I even mention the word Sunni? Why are you trying to angle this into a Shia vs Sunni paradigm? Also, you realise the vast majority of Syrian government troops are Sunni right?
Again, when did I specify 'sunni'? Interesting you make that distinction, I'm referring to factions like ISIS, Al Nusra and the extremist elements of FSA who consider themselves Sunni, but I'm not labeling them as such, I just choose to label them as belligerent extremists.
Also, once again I'm not masquerading as an apologist for the Shia militias nor the Assad regime (I have no religious affiliations), but to compare them to the atrocities committed by ISIS and their buddies is classic clutching at straws. The Maliki regime and his militia allies for example might have been somewhat sectarian, but they've not been going around carrying out atrocities in the scale and manner by the likes of ISIS. Ask yourself this question - would you rather be a Christian or a minority in a town run by Shia militias, or in a town taken by ISIS or Al Nusra? If you happen to know any Iraqi or Syrian Christians you might wish to pose that question to them.
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Iraqi civilian poisons 4 ISIS militants in Jalawla, Diyala
Diyala, (IraqiNews.com) A local source in Diyala Province informed IraqiNews.com that a number of ISIS militants were poisoned after drinking tea offered to them by a local resident.
Four ISIS militants at a check point near al-Tajneed neighborhood in Jalawla, 70 km north east of Baqubah were poisoned by an Iraqi civilian who lives nearby after he offered them some tea that he had poisoned earlier.
“The ISIS militants stormed the man’s house and sent the 4 fighters to a field hospital” said the source.
Noteworthy, Jalawla town witnesses violent clashes between ISIS militants who control it and Iraqi forces as well as Kurdish Peshmerga trying to liberate the city after they withdrew from it about two months ago
They killed the poor fella in the end, but at least he took 4 of the rats with him. More and more locals turning on them now after being frozen by fear and intimidation, long may it continue.
Diyala, (IraqiNews.com) A local source in Diyala Province informed IraqiNews.com that a number of ISIS militants were poisoned after drinking tea offered to them by a local resident.
Four ISIS militants at a check point near al-Tajneed neighborhood in Jalawla, 70 km north east of Baqubah were poisoned by an Iraqi civilian who lives nearby after he offered them some tea that he had poisoned earlier.
“The ISIS militants stormed the man’s house and sent the 4 fighters to a field hospital” said the source.
Noteworthy, Jalawla town witnesses violent clashes between ISIS militants who control it and Iraqi forces as well as Kurdish Peshmerga trying to liberate the city after they withdrew from it about two months ago
They killed the poor fella in the end, but at least he took 4 of the rats with him. More and more locals turning on them now after being frozen by fear and intimidation, long may it continue.
It seems Kobane will fall today
My friend, they have been saying this every day for 3 weeks. Kobane is 60:40 in Kurdish control, ISIS reinforcements pushed YPG back today.Kobane seems will fall today
@Suli I'm hearing that 125 YPG fighters were killed in an ambush today, and that they are in control of the security complex now
Yeah they took control of a police station or something. No news about the 125 fighters thing, is that Al Jazeera or something like that? I highly doubt that figure tbh .
It seems to me that the only ones who like them are the ones who want full shariah, what would happen if they conquered land that was majority non-Muslim? Would they kill most?
@Suli From skynewsarabia , I unfollowed them though, been suspicious of them for a while now. Their tweets mostly get retweeted by pro-ISIS. I hate conspiracy theories, but ..well...
Well I've to make distinction especially for you because you seem to have this habit of failing to highlight mass scale atrocities committed by Shia led Maliki and Assad regime, or in some case acknowledge but it but brush it off as its not as extreme enough as ISIS sponsored terrorism.
Also its not me alone but some of the other posters like Raoul and Sultan also feels and have pointed out in various threads that your posts are coming across as more and more biased against Sunnis in recent times.
Anyway
Welll I suppose then it wouldn't be majority non muslim?
Ezidis aren't Muslim. Those in Shingal were slaughtered.
Well I've to make distinction especially for you because you seem to have this habit of failing to highlight mass scale atrocities committed by Shia led Maliki and Assad regime, or in some case acknowledge but it but brush it off as its not as extreme enough as ISIS sponsored terrorism.
Also its not me alone but some of the other posters like Raoul and Sultan also feels and have pointed out in various threads that your posts are coming across as more and more biased against Sunnis in recent times.
Anyway
Because it isn't. Enacting laws which economically and politically favour one sect is deplorable, but isnt comparable to cutting off people's head because they pray in a certain way. A lot of the massacres committed that you listed were also mostly revenge attacks...again not in anyway justifiable but context is important before we start placing the governments of Iraq and Syria on the same abhorrent level as ISIS. I've also asked posters to point out how exactly I'm showing a discriminatory bias towards Sunnis and the only response I've got is that I have the audacity to be critical towards the Gulf Arab states who are coincidentally Sunni. There's also the fact I'm a half Shia, half Sunni atheist, but let's keep painting me with the sectarian brush.
Depends.
Shias and Yezidis would most likely be murdered. Christians would have to pay a tax.
As already seen in Northern Iraq, the rate of the Jizya would be set at such a ridiculous level that most Christians would have to run for their lives or face death.
An ISIL victory in this conflict will lead to a bloodbath that would make the Khymer Rouge blush.
The complacency by Turkey in particular, but everyone else too, is mind boggling. If ISIL is not stopped they will destabilise the entire near east.
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While we are watching kobane, this is happening. Good Bye Iraq. Any sectarian nation can't last for too long.
"Islamic State fighters are threatening to overrun Iraq’s Anbar province"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...4e4-4d73-b220-2d91161363e5_story.html?hpid=z1
" Tribal leaders said that “they will not confront the Islamic State while Shiite militias exist in Sunni areas"
and
" “The leadership doesn’t care about us, the people there [in Anbar] don’t care about us. They called us Shia dogs,” he said. “How can I fight for any of them after this?” A Sunni leader in Ramady
"Islamic State fighters are threatening to overrun Iraq’s Anbar province"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...4e4-4d73-b220-2d91161363e5_story.html?hpid=z1
" Tribal leaders said that “they will not confront the Islamic State while Shiite militias exist in Sunni areas"
and
" “The leadership doesn’t care about us, the people there [in Anbar] don’t care about us. They called us Shia dogs,” he said. “How can I fight for any of them after this?” A Sunni leader in Ramady
Jizya rate is lower than zakat. I read that the jizya rate that they set was really low.
Fighting in west and ISIS control about 40% now. BBC journo says what they're seeing is different to what they're hearing from some sources. This is Kobane atm after 2 airstrikes in a row
Pretty much yes. When presented with the Jizya, most Christians basically make a run for it. They're also forced to live by Sharia customs and have their places of worship torched or if they're lucky, converted into mosques.
A lot of what you said is actually inaccurate. I'll just take the 70 Sunnis killed in the mosque in Diyala as an example. First of all the fact that this incident was so well documented gives you an indication about how often it happened in Iraq. Second, you failed to mention that it's still unknown who did it (there are accusations, but none of them is proven). Third you also failed to mention that all the Shia clerics, the Shia government officials and the Shia militias condemned it, and not only that but, fourth you also failed to mention that the Shia militias actually rushed into the mosque to protect the people there and the attackers detonated several bombs which lead to 4 of those Shia militias being killed and 13 were injured in the same attack.
It's most probably not your fault, but the fault of the ISIS propaganda machines (including channels like Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya) who deliberately try to trigger sectarianism in Iraq with stories like that.
On the other side of the equation, for those 70 innocent people, do you know how many Shia civilians are killed every week? Should we blame it on the Sunnis as well?! That's extremely ignorant and stupid. The Sunnis and the Shias are living together in most provinces in Iraq, both in provinces that are predominantly Sunnis, and provinces that are predominantly shia. In fact many Shia and Sunni families are mixed, and even marry from each other. Yes, there is some friction between the two sects, but 99% of the Shia wouldn't want to kill the Sunnis, and same goes for the Sunnis, even though they're put in a difficult situation right now because of ISIS (both sides).
People also need to stop this non-sense of trying to picture everybody they dislike as being as bad as ISIS. It's kind of like the new Hitler now. No, PPK isn't as bad as ISIS, Assad isn't as bad as ISIS, and the Shia militias or the Sunni militias (like Hamas) aren't as bad as ISIS (they're not angels, but let's keep some reasonable perspective here). Just look at how Mosul was before ISIS came, and how it is now. Can you not tell the difference? Compare it to any other Shia province even now, can you not tell the difference? Really?
Honestly, do you think ISIS is a representative of Islam?
YPG are pleading for ammo and supplies. The situation is very bad.
I basically lost hope. I doubt the coalition and Turkey will change the status quo. Plenty of media intervations that have been basically "preparing" the public for the imminent downfall of the city. Feel bad for Kurds. Nothing against the Turkish people (Fener sounds like a reasonable person) but i wouldn´t want an Erdogan Turkey in the EU.
Yeah read the news today, doesn't look good. Honestly I don't think even ammo and supplies can help now. If ISIS is controlling half of the city including sensitive buildings in the city, then I'm afraid airstrikes won't be of much help, and even air-dropped supplies will be too late. Only way I see any hope is if Turkey opens the border now for free passage to allow both weapons and fighters to enter the city, otherwise it's just an unbalanced battle.
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Not sure how accurate this is. Doesn't paint a particularly encouraging picture of what ISIS are doing on the outskirts of Baghdad.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-within-8-miles-of-baghdad-airport-and-armed-with-manpads/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-within-8-miles-of-baghdad-airport-and-armed-with-manpads/
I'm talking about the protests in Turkey and stuff, not kobane.
Just read it, it is indeed worrying if true, although Abu-Gharib has always been a vulnerable city (ISIS broke into a big prison located in it a few months ago).
eventually some are just trying to put things into perspective. The idea that there is no severe friction between shia and sunnis in Iraq is just not true. I dont think that this is a predominantly religious problem, but "classic struggle for power". It follows tribal logic, along sectarian lines. ISIS couldnt do what they do, if the sunni tribes wouldnt tolerate them. The central iraqi government is corrupt and redirect wealth to their areas. Fights over natural resources happen all the time all over the world. It also gets fulled by foreign countries (Iran, SA, USA, turkey, gulf nations), who support one faction in a cold-war like proxy war way.
The Iraq needs a government, that is able to include all regions or it has to split up. The first thing wont happen. Simple as that and the second thing will only happen after the violence gets a lot worse.
the western region of the Iraq (anbar; sunni terretory), where the central gouvernement is still in charge and present with military bases, is going to fall soon, if things dont change significantly. This will open up the routes to baghdad.
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Its quite troubling as it will mean a full on civil war and probably another outside invasion.