ISIS in Iraq and Syria

the last map says, that eventually only 10-15% of sunnis are left, while they were the majority before the war. Thats pretty much my point. There are plenty of reports in various papers (e.g. NYT), that reported about this and sadly there are first signs that sectarian violence starts again.
 
the last map says, that eventually only 10-15% of sunnis are left, while they were the majority before the war. Thats pretty much my point. There are plenty of reports in various papers (e.g. NYT), that reported about this and sadly there are first signs that sectarian violence starts again.
I don't want to get into more discussion about it (and by the way, the map just says Baghdad was "mixed" in 2003, and didn't say anything about a "majority"). I don't think we need to connect any dots, or resort to some statistical "may be"s and "thought to be"s that is based on the opinion of taxi and truck drivers (which is what the study was actually based on). I don't even know how they suddenly converted "green and red areas" into numbers and percentages for the people.

Like I said, I think those referendum numbers from the period before the sectarian conflict is imo far more accurate, because you actually deal with real numbers, for all of Baghdad.

If you disagree then I'm fine with just agreeing to disagree here.
 



I don't know, but I would say it is still 60:40 or something close to that.


Be interesting to see how many Kurds are actually left in the city. I would think many would've already fled across the border, especially mothers and kids.
 
Be interesting to see how many Kurds are actually left in the city. I would think many would've already fled across the border, especially mothers and kids.
Anywhere between 1-5k.
 
Kobani: time running out for hundreds of besieged civilians
Syrian-Kurdish-refugee-ch-011.jpg

Syrian Kurdish refugee children who fled Kobani with their families stand outside their tent at a refugee camp in Suruc, on the Turkey-Syria border. Photograph: Lefteris Pitarakis/AP
Islamic State (Isis) fighters are closing in on the centre of besieged Kobani, where the Kurdish militia have sworn that they will fight to the death, and hundreds of desperate civilians are trapped in streets rank with the smell of rotting bodies.

The extremist group is trying to cut off the city’s border crossing into Turkey, its last link to the outside world, and penetrate the western enclave where the Kurdish People’s Protection fighters (YPG) are most firmly entrenched. Those units stopped at least five suicide car bombs sent to blast through their last layers of defence in the past two days, activists and politicians inside the city said. But Isis is throwing fighters and ammunition at the exposed road to the border, and if that falls it would be a devastating blow to the Kurdish units.

“If they cut off the border, then everyone inside is going to die,” said activist and journalist Mustafa Abdi, who lived in Kobani until a week ago and edits the website kobanikurd.com.

“Isis can’t walk or shoot their way into the YPG strongholds, but if they can get their car bombs in it will do terrible damage. So far they have stopped them all with rocket-propelled grenades.”

The staunch defence has stemmed, but not stopped, Isis’s brutal advance through the city. On Friday the group took control of the government section of the city, including the main police station and town hall.

The UN warned of a massacre if the city falls, because even after a huge exodus of more than 200,000 refugees to Turkey there are still hundreds of civilians trapped inside. Two of them begged for a rescue mission in phone calls yesterday, as the battles raged through a powerful sandstorm that shrouded the city from journalists and anxious refugees who have been watching the fighting from the safety of Turkish soil, just a few hundred feet away.

“There is a terrible smell from bodies in the street. At first I didn’t know what it was,” said Welat Shaheen, a farmer who stayed in his home at the edge of the city when the rest of the family fled. “There are bombs and fighting all around, so no one really goes out.”

The 31-year-old is surviving on bulgar wheat and other dried food, eking out a tank of water stored up before the siege began. “I can’t wash myself, or wash dishes; it’s just for cooking and drinking. Please can someone come and get us out. If my water runs out, I will die.”

Another civilian, disabled engineer Berkal Karan, said he was eating only one meal a day to stretch out supplies. “I would like to leave, but everyone here now is trapped. When I hear voices I don’t know if they are Isis or YPG, so I am afraid to go out of my house.”

If Isis can take Kobani, it would give it full control of a long stretch of the Turkish border and a direct link between its stronghold of Raqqa in the east and positions in Aleppo province. It would also be a propaganda victory after its promises to hold prayers for the Muslim festival of Eid last week were derailed by the surprising strength of Kurdish resistance fighters.

Underlining the ideological gulf between Isis and its opponents, Kurdish fighters in the city are commanded by a woman, Heval (Comrade) Narin. Her forces have defied expectations by holding off Isis for more than 20 days, despite a paltry arsenal of light weapons that are no real match for their enemy’s huge array of heavy weapons, much of it raided from Iraqi army bases that the extremist group captured this summer.

The reputation of Kurdish forces may be bolstered by an efficient propaganda machine, but there seems little doubt that the men and women currently fighting in Kobani do it with the full knowledge that they are staring a brutal death in the face. A female fighter who was recently brought back to Turkey for burial had not just been decapitated, but had also had her breasts cut off, said Mehdi Aslan, head of a self-defence unit on the Turkish side of the border formed to stop the Isis fighters or supplies slipping into Syria.

Executions and mutilations appear to have only strengthened the resolve of fighters such as Azadin, a father of five who was ordered to leave for Turkey around a week ago because he has a family to support. He refused, saying that he would shoot himself rather than leave, relatives said. “Please don’t call, I’m fighting,” said a terse message on his voicemail when the Observer tried to contact him yesterday.

Despite their resolve, the group is now running low on ammunition and other supplies, mostly because the Turkish border has been tightly sealed for anyone wanting to travel into Syria. US air strikes, cheered by refugees watching the fight on the other side of the border, have helped to delay the Isis advance by taking out some of their largest guns.

“We are getting stronger,” said Anwar Muslim, a lawyer and head of the city council, who stayed on in Kobani after most of the officials left. “What we wanted from the beginning was to get rid of the heavy weapons so we can fight honestly. They tried everything to get inside [Kurdish-controlled areas], but for now they are still outside.”

However, even American officials have admitted that the air strikes alone are unlikely to save the city, with Isis being too well ensconced among its buildings to be bombed out. So the Kurds are desperately calling for further intervention, warning the world of a catastrophe that some fear it might already be too late to stop.

“For now, we consider Kobani lost, but we keep working and working,” said Abdi, the refugee activist. “It has been in the spotlight. People are watching it burning in front of their eyes and doing nothing. That’s still better than Kobani falling and dying with no one knowing about it.”
 
What a choice - defend your city from barbarians or go and live in a squalid refugee camp. Poor people.
 
Kobani: time running out for hundreds of besieged civilians
Syrian-Kurdish-refugee-ch-011.jpg

Syrian Kurdish refugee children who fled Kobani with their families stand outside their tent at a refugee camp in Suruc, on the Turkey-Syria border. Photograph: Lefteris Pitarakis/AP
Islamic State (Isis) fighters are closing in on the centre of besieged Kobani, where the Kurdish militia have sworn that they will fight to the death, and hundreds of desperate civilians are trapped in streets rank with the smell of rotting bodies.

The extremist group is trying to cut off the city’s border crossing into Turkey, its last link to the outside world, and penetrate the western enclave where the Kurdish People’s Protection fighters (YPG) are most firmly entrenched. Those units stopped at least five suicide car bombs sent to blast through their last layers of defence in the past two days, activists and politicians inside the city said. But Isis is throwing fighters and ammunition at the exposed road to the border, and if that falls it would be a devastating blow to the Kurdish units.

“If they cut off the border, then everyone inside is going to die,” said activist and journalist Mustafa Abdi, who lived in Kobani until a week ago and edits the website kobanikurd.com.

“Isis can’t walk or shoot their way into the YPG strongholds, but if they can get their car bombs in it will do terrible damage. So far they have stopped them all with rocket-propelled grenades.”

The staunch defence has stemmed, but not stopped, Isis’s brutal advance through the city. On Friday the group took control of the government section of the city, including the main police station and town hall.

The UN warned of a massacre if the city falls, because even after a huge exodus of more than 200,000 refugees to Turkey there are still hundreds of civilians trapped inside. Two of them begged for a rescue mission in phone calls yesterday, as the battles raged through a powerful sandstorm that shrouded the city from journalists and anxious refugees who have been watching the fighting from the safety of Turkish soil, just a few hundred feet away.

“There is a terrible smell from bodies in the street. At first I didn’t know what it was,” said Welat Shaheen, a farmer who stayed in his home at the edge of the city when the rest of the family fled. “There are bombs and fighting all around, so no one really goes out.”

The 31-year-old is surviving on bulgar wheat and other dried food, eking out a tank of water stored up before the siege began. “I can’t wash myself, or wash dishes; it’s just for cooking and drinking. Please can someone come and get us out. If my water runs out, I will die.”

Another civilian, disabled engineer Berkal Karan, said he was eating only one meal a day to stretch out supplies. “I would like to leave, but everyone here now is trapped. When I hear voices I don’t know if they are Isis or YPG, so I am afraid to go out of my house.”

If Isis can take Kobani, it would give it full control of a long stretch of the Turkish border and a direct link between its stronghold of Raqqa in the east and positions in Aleppo province. It would also be a propaganda victory after its promises to hold prayers for the Muslim festival of Eid last week were derailed by the surprising strength of Kurdish resistance fighters.

Underlining the ideological gulf between Isis and its opponents, Kurdish fighters in the city are commanded by a woman, Heval (Comrade) Narin. Her forces have defied expectations by holding off Isis for more than 20 days, despite a paltry arsenal of light weapons that are no real match for their enemy’s huge array of heavy weapons, much of it raided from Iraqi army bases that the extremist group captured this summer.

The reputation of Kurdish forces may be bolstered by an efficient propaganda machine, but there seems little doubt that the men and women currently fighting in Kobani do it with the full knowledge that they are staring a brutal death in the face. A female fighter who was recently brought back to Turkey for burial had not just been decapitated, but had also had her breasts cut off, said Mehdi Aslan, head of a self-defence unit on the Turkish side of the border formed to stop the Isis fighters or supplies slipping into Syria.

Executions and mutilations appear to have only strengthened the resolve of fighters such as Azadin, a father of five who was ordered to leave for Turkey around a week ago because he has a family to support. He refused, saying that he would shoot himself rather than leave, relatives said. “Please don’t call, I’m fighting,” said a terse message on his voicemail when the Observer tried to contact him yesterday.

Despite their resolve, the group is now running low on ammunition and other supplies, mostly because the Turkish border has been tightly sealed for anyone wanting to travel into Syria. US air strikes, cheered by refugees watching the fight on the other side of the border, have helped to delay the Isis advance by taking out some of their largest guns.

“We are getting stronger,” said Anwar Muslim, a lawyer and head of the city council, who stayed on in Kobani after most of the officials left. “What we wanted from the beginning was to get rid of the heavy weapons so we can fight honestly. They tried everything to get inside [Kurdish-controlled areas], but for now they are still outside.”

However, even American officials have admitted that the air strikes alone are unlikely to save the city, with Isis being too well ensconced among its buildings to be bombed out. So the Kurds are desperately calling for further intervention, warning the world of a catastrophe that some fear it might already be too late to stop.

“For now, we consider Kobani lost, but we keep working and working,” said Abdi, the refugee activist. “It has been in the spotlight. People are watching it burning in front of their eyes and doing nothing. That’s still better than Kobani falling and dying with no one knowing about it.”
The UN warned... I always wondered what they did as an organization. Now it's clear. They warn while people are being decapitated and having their breasts cut off . Very useful.
 
The UN warned... I always wondered what they did as an organization. Now it's clear. They warn while people are being decapitated and having their breasts cut off . Very useful.

The UN are quite impotent as an international organization. In fact, the more you dig into things, the more obvious it is that the likes of the UN, NATO, the EU and other similar groups are concepts are merely policy mechanisms for the large and powerful states who set their agendas.
 
Great video from Nusaybin, earlier this week, when Kurds broke the border fences between Turkey and Syria. You can see them chucking whatever they find at the armoured vehicles.

 
Evidence of chemical weapons being used on YPG has been released in the form of photos. I can't find any news article on it on my phone, I would appreciate it if somebody found one over the coming days.
 
Evidence of chemical weapons being used on YPG has been released in the form of photos. I can't find any news article on it on my phone, I would appreciate it if somebody found one over the coming days.

By whom exactly?
 
Just found it - only source seems to be liveleak. Yeah I'm gonna wait on more official confirmation before we realise we're recycling photos from Iraq and other parts of Syria.
 
ISIS seem to be far from a ragtag bunch of fanatics with guns, knives and a video camera. How are they coordinated? Who is their leader, and what is their end gial here? How are they managed to support their operations?

Sorry if I come off as clueless on the issue (I am) but little is being said about ISIS in the media: the focus is on the US' reaction to them.
 
ISIS seem to be far from a ragtag bunch of fanatics with guns, knives and a video camera. How are they coordinated? Who is their leader, and what is their end gial here? How are they managed to support their operations?

Sorry if I come off as clueless on the issue (I am) but little is being said about ISIS in the media: the focus is on the US' reaction to them.

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - An Iraqi guy is their leader. He has two deputies, one who handles operations in Iraq, the other is responsible for Syria. They in turn have a series of mid level operatives who are in charge of implementing policy goals within their respective subsections of Iraq and Syria. Its fairly organized, or at least as organized as a fairly new terrorist group can be. They have plenty of young, western educated people among their ranks, who are doing things like English language propaganda.
 
Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - An Iraqi guy is their leader. He has two deputies, one who handles operations in Iraq, the other is responsible for Syria. They in turn have a series of mid level operatives who are in charge of implementing policy goals within their respective subsections of Iraq and Syria. Its fairly organized, or at least as organized as a fairly new terrorist group can be. They have plenty of young, western educated people among their ranks, who are doing things like English language propaganda.

Cheers.

Is it not possible to starve their access to funds and weapons? I hear they pull in a million dollars a day from oil. You would think the global financial system is sophisticated enough to freeze all payments going to ISIS related personnel, as well as any cash reserves.
 
Cheers.

Is it not possible to starve their access to funds and weapons? I hear they pull in a million dollars a day from oil. You would think the global financial system is sophisticated enough to freeze all payments going to ISIS related personnel, as well as any cash reserves.

Its hard to do that because they control significant swaths of Iraq and Syria, where they have plenty of weapons, including those they've managed to take from fleeing Iraqi and Syrian units. They also have access to various refineries where they have been selling oil for profit on the black market. Some of the refineries have since been blown up by US jets to deprive them of funding sources. There's not much that can be done in terms of cutting off their access to receiving money from the outside. Its not like Russia where they can be blocked from access to the SWIFT banking system. ISIS generally do everything on the black market and get funding from the outside via intermediaries.
 
Seems to be a lovely guy. Maybe he turns into a tolerant democracy loving chap if we ask him nicely. I am pretty sure there are plenty of guys like him. Even if you kill/capture a couple of those, there are so many that its almost not worth the effort.

Apparently he chilled in Iran for a couple of years and returned back in Sadr City, when ad-sadr became an ally of the central government.
 
Seems to be a lovely guy. Maybe he turns into a tolerant democracy loving chap if we ask him nicely. I am pretty sure there are plenty of guys like him. Even if you kill/capture a couple of those, there are so many that its almost not worth the effort.

Apparently he chilled in Iran for a couple of years and returned back in Sadr City, when ad-sadr became an ally of the central government.

That's impossible. Iran is so peaceful it has never attacked neighbouring countries.
 
Abu Deraa is a nefarious piece of work, if the Iraqi government has any more integrity they'd put the fecker in jail and throw away the key. Not going to happen though. Otherwise they can just unleash him and his thugs on ISIS while firing a rocket resulting in some unfortunate 'collateral damage'.

That's impossible. Iran is so peaceful it has never attacked neighbouring countries.

Because it hasn't, nor has it recently annexed 950 acres of land that doesn't belong to them.
 
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http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/iraq...acked-shi-militias-2014-10-14?linkId=10010892

Iraq: Evidence of war crimes by government-backed Shi’a militias
201595_Shiite_Muslim_fighters_from_the_Saraya_al-Salam_Peace_Brigades_a_group_formed_by_Iraqi_Shiite_Muslim_cleric_Moqtada_al-Sadr.jpg

The growing power of Shi’a militias in Iraq has contributed to an atmosphere of lawlessness.



By granting its blessing to militias, the Iraqi government is sanctioning war crimes and fuelling a dangerous cycle of sectarian violence that is tearing the country apart.

Amnesty International's Donatella Rovera

Shi’a militias, supported and armed by the government of Iraq, have abducted and killed scores of Sunni civilians in recent months and enjoy total impunity for these war crimes, said Amnesty International in a new briefing published today.

Absolute Impunity: Militia Rule in Iraq provides harrowing details of sectarian attacks carried out by increasingly powerful Shi’a militias in Baghdad, Samarra and Kirkuk, apparently in revenge for attacks by the armed group that calls itself the Islamic State (IS). Scores of unidentified bodies have been discovered across the country handcuffed and with gunshot wounds to the head, indicating a pattern of deliberate execution-style killings.

“By granting its blessing to militias who routinely commit such abhorrent abuses, the Iraqi government is sanctioning war crimes and fuelling a dangerous cycle of sectarian violence that is tearing the country apart. Iraqi government support for militia rule must end now,” said Donatella Rovera, Amnesty International’s Senior Crisis Response Adviser.

The fate of many of those abducted by Shi'a militias weeks and months ago remains unknown. Some captives were killed even after their families had paid ransoms of $80,000 and more to secure their release.

Salem, a 40-year-old businessman and father of nine from Baghdad was abducted in July. Two weeks after his family had paid the kidnappers a $60,000 ransom, his body was found in Baghdad’s morgue; with his head crushed and his hands still cuffed together.

The growing power of Shi’a militias has contributed to an overall deterioration in security and an atmosphere of lawlessness. The relative of one victim from Kirkuk told Amnesty International:

“I have lost one son and don’t want to lose any more. Nothing can bring him back and I can’t put my other children at risk. Who knows who will be next? There is no rule of law, no protection.”

Among the Shi’a militias believed to be behind the string of abductions and killings are: ‘Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq, the Badr Brigades, the Mahdi Army, and Kata’ib Hizbullah.

These militias have further risen in power and prominence since June, after the Iraqi army retreated, ceding nearly a third of the country to IS fighters. Militia members, numbering tens of thousands, wear military uniforms, but they operate outside any legal framework and without any official oversight.

“By failing to hold militias accountable for war crimes and other gross human rights abuses the Iraqi authorities have effectively granted them free rein to go on the rampage against Sunnis. The new Iraqi government of Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi must act now to rein in the militias and establish the rule of law,” said Donatella Rovera.

“Shi’a militias are ruthlessly targeting Sunni civilians on a sectarian basis under the guise of fighting terrorism, in an apparent bid to punish Sunnis for the rise of the IS and for its heinous crimes.”

At a checkpoint north of Baghdad, for instance, Amnesty International heard a member of the ‘Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq militia say: “If we catch ‘those dogs’ [Sunnis] coming down from the Tikrit area we execute them…. They come to Baghdad to commit terrorist crimes, so we have to stop them.”

Meanwhile, Iraqi government forces also continue to perpetrate serious human rights violations. Amnesty International uncovered evidence of torture and ill-treatment of detainees, as well as deaths in custody of Sunni men detained under the 2005 anti-terrorism law.

The body of a 33-year-old lawyer and father of two young children who died in custody showed bruises, open wounds and burns consistent with the application of electricity. Another man held for five months was tortured with electric shocks and threatened with rape with a stick before being released without charge.

“Successive Iraqi governments have displayed a callous disregard for fundamental human rights principles. The new government must now change course and put in place effective mechanisms to investigate abuses by Shi’a militias and Iraqi forces and hold accountable those responsible,” said Donatella Rovera.



How useful.
 
Give each group their own land and be done with it.
the problem is that this is not that easy. The natural resources are not distributed equally and most foreign countries heavily oppose this idea. It has to get a lot worse before anyone will talk about a lasting solution. A full blown civil war, where no side can dominate the other eventually with 100.000+ casualties.