They've voted for military action against ISIS and are letting a defensive militia get slaughtered in Kobane. It's very worrying.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
- Start date
YPG repelling all attacks on Kobane neighbourhoods and inflicting heavy losses on ISIS. It's going to be a very tough night.
Air strikes have just hit the area, unclear on their impact/number as of yet.
Air strikes have just hit the area, unclear on their impact/number as of yet.
They voted for action in iraqi air space only so without another vote they don't have a mandate for action
I was under the impression that the anti-ISIS coalition had legal authority to attack them wherever. The white house certainly has authority to kill anyone they see as being even a potential threat, ISIS or otherwise.
Uk voted against airstrikes in Syria last year (against assad)... This was quite embarrassing for the government
When asked to vote this time the uk vote was specifically for targets in Iraq as a sovereign state whose leadership we recognise asked for help. It was specifically stated there would need to be a further vote to authorise uk attacks in Syria.
Fair enough, didn't know that.
Right now in Amed (Diyarbakir), Turkey. You can hear what sounds like gunshots.
Apparently they've just sent 3k+ more fighters to secure Kobane.
People seem to want it both ways. Stay out of the ME but help us when we need it. If people were consistent it wouldn't bother me. Same goes for other regions.
I think and hope we are seeing a new era where the USA (+/- UK) don't do everything. If they want action they need to protest their government for not being involved enough. Germany's involvement is pretty minor I believe.
who isnt consistent?
Germany´s involvement is not only minor, but our military is garbage.
Three weeks ago the government decided to send military adviser and equipment to the kurds in iraq. The plane had a malfunction so they had to land in Bulgeria, where they are stuck because the replacement plane doesnt get the permission to enter Iraqi airspace. 
Germany´s involvement is not only minor, but our military is garbage.
Three weeks ago the government decided to send military adviser and equipment to the kurds in iraq. The plane had a malfunction so they had to land in Bulgeria, where they are stuck because the replacement plane doesnt get the permission to enter Iraqi airspace. Can you name a few of those people? You know, there are quite a few posters (with different opinions) in this thread.
The problem is the US intervened to help ISIS grow (in the last 3 years), and now they don't "intervene", letting ISIS grow even stronger. That's why they are damned in both cases, because they're helping ISIS grow, in both cases.
Airstrikes are too late now for an intervention. I already mentioned in a previous post the things I think the US should do to stop ISIS, and a military intervention isn't one of them. The US army paying the region a visit every 10 years isn't the solution for the problem. Not creating (or help create) the problem in the first place is.
Sadly, we aren't.
From what I've read is that people are frustrated at their ineffectiveness (e.g. in Kobane). There is an argument to be made that we are to provide help, then lets do the job right as opposed to half ass it because we're all broke and can't afford a war... hmmmm
Where are you guys located? I'm following the BBC and haven't heard any updates in awhile.
Well for starters, they aren't there solely to bomb Kobane. In Fact its probably quite far down the list of priorities given that there are ISIS fighters all over western and north central Iraq, as well as a massive swath of Syria.
It's not on here, I'm talking worldwide.
Also, haven't there already been strikes? You reply makes it sound like zero or perhaps just a few to placate those who wanted them.
That makes sense...and with Turkey right on the border I don't understand why they don't help.
I'd say the majority of what me and suli read is usually true, but we take it with a pinch of salt. We don't follow BBC or any other mainstream news outlet either, Im located in Nottingham and Suli is in London. If you follow the correct, reliable twitter accounts then you're good to go.
I think ISIS are working for the Americans too, as were Hitler and Osama. I even suspect the guy from the kebab shop that sold me this kebab that gave me the shits last week, to be an undercover CIA agent.
moyes was working for them too, wasnt he? that pesky feck. I always knew there was something else behind our results.
I think you may be on to something here.
I will give updates faster than BBC.
Especially considering that our owners are fecking yanks. I'm almost certain Obama send them here to destroy the biggest club in English football. Once Manchester United has fallen the rest of English football will follow and finally no one will oppose the yanks for calling it soccer. Thanks Obama.
The general consensus is that if Kobane falls, so will Turkey. Hundreds of thousands took to the streets it seems as well as thousands more across the world.
Turkey will pay for it's actions.
Turkey will pay for it's actions.
First air strikes during the day.
General consensus amongst Kurds in Turkey. Sorry for not being clear. They want Turkey to pay for its actions.
You are still not being clear I don't think.
You stated: "The general consensus is that if Kobane falls, so will Turkey".
Turkey "will fall" means what exactly? What do people feel will happen to Turkey?
You stated: "The general consensus is that if Kobane falls, so will Turkey".
Turkey "will fall" means what exactly? What do people feel will happen to Turkey?
Riots and attempts to remove the local governments from power, especially in Kurdish cities.
Ok, well that is plainly not a case of Turkey falling rather likely cases of civil unrest.
Where do Russia fit into all this? They must be aligning themseleves with someone?
It still does not register with me how 15/20 thousand ISIS (mostly untrained) volunteers can take over such large swathes of Syria and Iraq despite a trained Iraqi and Syrian army, anti ISIS volunteers, logistical and air support from various countries.
I am reading that Isis is using tanks against Kobane. Surely easy targets for jets & drones?
Same here. It's beyond bewildering.
Yeah they've been using tens of tanks for weeks now. YPG have destroyed nearly 20 of them but it still hasn't been enough to stop them.
Another air strike in Kobane, reportedly on the Southern fronts where tanks have been hit, coincidently.
And how have they sourced their equipment - tanks for example. Unless they have been collecting old Iraqi army machinery, who's been supplying them? I don't know anything of the history or ins and outs, but I agree that the fact that an army has been able to form that does not belong to any state I find incredible. You have to say also that it has to be considered quite a feat of organisation to have done so in which case I would worry about how formidable they could be. That in turn suggests they will be here to stay as they are meeting very little resistance in a part of the world that is in complete turmoil.
Its not all that bemusing considering the fragmented and complicated micro-conflicts that are happening in those two nations. This isn't a war involving two groups of sides, but rather half a dozen or so factions, each with their own personal goals, each pretty much taking it in turns to transiently align themselves to one another, only to inevitably turn on one another when their personal goals come at odds.
In addition to receiving heaps of funding from Saudi and Qatari businessmen, ISIS have prudently capitalised on several factors which has given them an edge. Firstly, the sympathy of many Iraqis and Syrians who've decided that to spite their respective governments, they'd embrace IS in order to free themselves from the central governments of Baghdad and Damascus, it explains why they were able to seamlessly sweep into Mosul with no resistance and lay claim to the place. Of course, the locals are feeling a tad bit regretful and silly about it now that IS are essentially closing down universities and sticking heads up on pikes, but granted they're so embedded now its a little too late.
Another factor, and this applies more to Syria, has been the chaotic handover of weapons to the Syrian Rebel forces, facilitated by the Gulf Arab states, Turkey and the US. This was clearly a very irresponsible and short-sighted initiative considering that the most effective and dominant of the Syrian rebel forces were the most extreme elements linked to the likes of Al Nusra and IS, hence its hardly of any surprise that weapons perhaps intended for so-called 'moderates', had eventually found their way into the hands of those committing atrocities under the black flag of IS.
Finally, we musn't ignore the hugely successful recruitment drive ISIS have been able to cultivate in recent months. Bored Mujahadeens from Chechnya and North Africa have found a perfect calling in Syria and Iraq to satisfy their militant urges for martydrom, whereas hundreds, if not thousands of disillusioned British, French and American Muslims have been brainwashed into heeding their call, most likely because they feel marginalised in their respective societies.
When put like that, it's hard to see any hope for the region.
It is all looking a bit macabre, but a lot of this can be traced to irresponsible intervention. The escalation of violence seen now is a spillover of irresponsible US-Arab-Turkish intervention in Syria for three years, and going further back - the invasion of Iraq in 2003 which resulted in the decimation of its military structures.
Would turkey prefer to deal with ISIS than the Kurds as an independent Kurdish state on their boarder could potentially cause internal factions wanting to split off?
I dont know enough about the internal political workings of Turkey to be sure of this but I know it has been suggested by several commentators and I cant recall hearing a logical counter argument as to why they wouldn't have major issues with ISIS controlling large sections of their boarders?
The Kurds definitely serve more of an internal nightmare for Turkey than ISIS ever will. Ultimately, the Turks need not fear ISIS even on their border since their military will mostly likely be able to decimate them should it come to that (we're talking about the second biggest military in NATO). Add to that, NATO has already pledged that it will protect Turkey by all means possible, so they have that as a safety net.
An empowered Kurdish people however will most likely vitalise independence aspirations, galvanising the Kurdish east of Turkey - an absolute nightmare for someone like Edrogan who's basically living a quasi, neo-Ottoman pipedream. So as it stands, ISIS serve as a nasty, albeit effective buffer to Kurdish aspirations which Turkey sees as detrimental to them.