I already gave examples for US ME policies which undermined Israel's security, but i think we're derailing the thread here.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
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We are witnessing the long term effects of neo cons clash of civilizations death theories, which is great for the zionists and Israel.
We started with handing bearded blokes to the Romans, then went on slashing London prostitutes and now we have manufactured radical Islam. I think we've also been responsible for communism, as well as capitalism.
It never ceases to amaze me how Karl Marx's violent anti-Semitism is ignored by his disciples. Marx actually wrote a book in 1843 called 'On the Jewish question'. Sickening.
Really? I think to some extent the theory is an attempt to capture, in simplistic terms perhaps, what is happening rather than the cause of it. Undoubtedly there was a clash of civilisations between the Capitalist West and the Communist East for most of the 20th century and, ideologically speaking, extremists like ISIS/ISIL whatever they are called have replaced the socialists as the main threat to the Western way of life.
That is why I disagree with the above. You can't really neutralise an idea. Iran, for all its craziness, can be contained. It is a state politicking for regional supremacy. There are things you can do against it, their are tools you can use against it. ISIS and their ilk are something else. Unlike ISIS, Iran, to my knowledge, has not created a map showing its plans to create an Empire as big as the Umayyad Caliphate (with Rome thrown in for good measure). Of course that will never happen, but the fact the Communist utopia never happened didn't stop Western students carrying out terrorist campaigns against their own people e.g. the Baader-Meinhof group. The ideas they are spreading are the really enemy and its harder to beat an idea than a country.
Instead of drawing its empire's map, the Iranian leadership has settled for vowing to wipe Israel of it. Excuse me for not caring too much for the fine details of their map.
I hope Iran invade your home, cut off your internet and then go back without harming anyone or anything.
Is Niall Iranian?
I don't think it matters either way. As I'm sure you're aware, the Rashidun Caliphate took the land that now forms Israel from the control of the East Roman Empire in the early 7th century. This land was inherited by the Umayyads and therefore ISIS, in their twisted logic, sees your homeland as their property. ISIS may, for now, be confining themselves to Iraq and Syria but by publishing their map and beheading that Lebanese soldier they have made their long-term goal clear: Expansion. Israel, the West, and frankly everyone on earth who isn't part of their psychotic little crew is on their hit list. That's probably why, according to the Jerusalem Post, Israeli intelligence is actually being passed via the U.S. to countries that are usually hostile to Israel to help fight ISIS (link). Again, as you probably know better than most, it only takes one crazy who believes what these fanatics have to say for a lot of innocent people to end up dead.
Remember all those times Iran invaded other countries in the past couple of centuries? Yeah me neither.
What does this have to do with any of this?
I don't know why people still use the horrendously mistranslated Ahmadinijad quote you're referring to as a way of summarising Iran's position on Israel. It has to be the most widely misinterpreted statement in international relations over the last decade - even heads of government still refer to it, despite it being well established that the accurate translation suggests that it was a not an intent of action, but merely an expression of a prediction.... a prediction that didn't even include the words 'map' or 'Israel.' It is most commonly translated as “This regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time” by actual scholars of the Persian language. He was merely expressing his belief that Zionism (in its current form) will not prevail, which is the position of almost every predominately Muslim state.
If I were an Israeli, I would be a thousand times more concerned about the prospect of a militarily capable Sunni caliphate (that has no intention of even pretending to abide by international law) on my doorstep than I would be about Iran.
This is getting way off topic, and I'm not going that path again. This has been done here many times, and it is safe to say that you in the UK could allow yourself a wider margin for error. You don't need Hebrew experts to tell that Israel never aimed to eliminate Iran. In contrast, chants of "Death to Israel" coupled with calls for the removal of a "regime"/"cancer" which accompany an active pursuit of nuclear weapons sum up a valid concern on our end. We have learned some harsh lessons regarding this type of seemingly vague threats.
As for ISIS, they'll be dealt with before they threaten Western interests. I doubt they'll become a strategic threat to Israel.
As for ISIS, they'll be dealt with before they threaten Western interests. I doubt they'll become a strategic threat to Israel.
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Funny enough Iran are playing a pivotal role in fighting ISIS.
If it weren't for the Iranian-trained Shia militias, the south would be overrun with the ISIS zealots. They're also providing the bulk of the air support down there too since the Yanks are only interested in protecting their interests near Kurdistan.
If it weren't for the Iranian-trained Shia militias, the south would be overrun with the ISIS zealots. They're also providing the bulk of the air support down there too since the Yanks are only interested in protecting their interests near Kurdistan.
I had no idea that Miralem Pjanic's brother had been fighting for ISIS.
While I'm sure the Iranians are there in the name of global peace and harmony.
No they're not but again no one is.
Considering how our Saudi and Khaleej 'brothers' are more than happy to sponsor the terrorism which has claimed hundreds of thousands of lives in the last decade and how they were happy to use their land as a launch pad for the Yanks to bomb Iraq, I'd much rather take the Iranian's malevolent presence if it keeps our militias trained and the barbarians at bay.
The Saudi money was well appreciated when it sponsored Hamas terrorists. Saddam's Iraq was the proud sponsor of PA terrorism in Israel too. Add Iran's role in the terrorism monster that Hizballah is, and you'll find that there are no saints in this post-conventional wars era.
And Hamas and Saddam are well documented enemies of Hezbollah. Its just the way the turbulent regions work. There are no benevolents and everyone at some point has been in bed or is currently in bed with unsavoury elements.
That's not the issue for me at the moment, what is though is getting the ISIS purged all the way to the Persian Gulf. If that's going to require Iranian intel and firepower then I'm all for it.
Hamas and Hizballah were best mates prior to the conflict in Syria, if I recall correctly.
Yes, and now they're pretty much shooting at one another. That basically testaments my point.
Obama to make a speech at 9pm? Quietly hoping he starts supporting Kurdish forces in Syria, either via air strikes or arming them with heavy weapons.
Obama is going to ask for authorization to arm "moderate rebels" to fight ISIS. Well that should work out well shouldn't it?
Around the same time that the YPG and FSA form an alliance to fight ISIS. New photos of the partnership were released today.
Beheaded journalist Steven Sotloff was ‘sold by moderate Syrian militants to ISIS’
NEW DELHI: The family spokesman of Steven Sotloff — the American journalist who was beheaded by ISIS recently — has told CNN that "moderate militants", who kidnapped him in Syria, sold him to the Islamic State (ISIS).
On Monday, Barak Barfi, on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" programme, said, "For the first time, we can say Steven was sold at the border. Steven's name was on a list that he had been responsible for the bombing of a hospital ... This was false, activists spread his name around."
"We believe that these so-called moderate rebels that people want our administration to support, one of them sold him probably for something between $25,000 and $50,000 to ISIS, and that was the reason he was captured," Barfi told Cooper crediting what he called "sources on the ground".
The west, led by the US, had been aiding the "moderate" militants in Syria to overthrow President Bashar al-Assad's regime.
ISIS released a video last Tuesday showing the beheading of Sotloff, which was later confirmed as authentic by US officials. Sotloff is the second US journalist to be beheaded by ISIS after James Foley.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...an-militants-to-ISIS/articleshow/42106794.cms
FFS is Obama for real? Arming MORE rebels in Syria? Has he not learnt from his mistake the first time round?!
Christ on a fecking bike.
Christ on a fecking bike.
Hence my use of the word perception (though I think we both know that the USA has acted against the interests of Arab civilians in the past under the pretext of securing Israel).
The Islamist, sorry secular regime of Sisi recently released the 'homosexuals' they had imprisoned after 'conclusive' tests to prove they had not engaged in homosexual acts. Sensational.
You're right though, we're derailing.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/sep/25/iraq-outlaw-state/
Very interesting (and long) read of how we've gotten to this stage in Iraq.
The 'moderates' are willing to buy and sell humans as slaves...
...What on earth are we dealing with here?
Obama has just pledged to further arm these 'moderates'.
And we wonder how the likes of ISIS end up with such heavy firepower.
you're fecked RK.
More like the region is fecked.
ISIS empowered through arming of 'moderates' in Syria. Solution? Arm more 'moderate' rebels!
And they wonder how these barbarians end up accumulating such impressive resources.
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"we" go again. Should end well. Tired of this.
The region is already fecked. And the idea that ISIS is empowered if Assad is weakened is really a false choice. I don't expect this to end well though. Plenty of more bloodshed in Syria until that war is resolved.
Its not really a false choice considering that the Syrian Army and its allies are the main factions fighting ISIS in Syria. Arming 'moderates' would only exacerbate this clusterfeck.
Obama could have easily armed the Kurdish factions in Syria yet he's gone for the same 'moderates' who've previously funneled weapons to ISIS, as well as 'selling' them US hostages to be beheaded. It suggests to me he considers fighting Assad and taking potshots at Iran as being more important than the massacres committed by ISIS.
Its already a cluster, so deciding between a bad and extremely bad side shouldn't be the only options for long term stability.
Long term stability doesn't make the military industrial complex happy. Arm them in Syria, bomb them in Iraq.
What did you expect would happen ? The US would bomb ISIS so Assad can stay in power ? Let's get real.
What did you expect would happen ? The US would bomb ISIS so Assad can stay in power ? Let's get real.
So the US would rather covertly support ISIS. Fitting, and hardly surprising.
So do the YPG not count as moderate rebels? Literally the only fighting force that has been proven capable of fighting ISIS isn't getting armed? Feck that.
Give the YPG heavy weapons and some artillery and we'll see some huge advancements. They've resorted to creating their own armoured vehicles and despite the fact that they look impressive, I've never seen one being used on a battlefield.
Give the YPG heavy weapons and some artillery and we'll see some huge advancements. They've resorted to creating their own armoured vehicles and despite the fact that they look impressive, I've never seen one being used on a battlefield.