Wasn't a major problem whether the Turks would permit a Kurdish state? Turkey is their only solid and intrinsically powerful ally in the region.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
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Wasn't a major problem whether the Turks would permit a Kurdish state? Turkey is their only solid and intrinsically powerful ally in the region.
They historically have been nervous about all the Kurds in eastern Turkey becoming unsettled, but it has now become a reality the Turks are going to have to live with.
Maybe. Just because I put it badly I meant Turkey were the only significant US allies in the region.
The likes of the Saudi regime could fold overnight, as we have seen from the Shah to Egypt.
And I class Israel as an inward-looking dependent creation, not a relevant force outside their own borders.
The likes of the Saudi regime could fold overnight, as we have seen from the Shah to Egypt.
And I class Israel as an inward-looking dependent creation, not a relevant force outside their own borders.
What a frightening prospect that would be.
I'd agree in that economics has very little to do with it, but I stand by my stance in that this was largely a result of irresponsible western policy of undermining secular regimes in the Middle East, leaving there a void to be filled by extremists who would have been previously kept at bay.
Scripture is indeed a problem though. Much more needs to be done to quell the influence of wealthy Saudi and Qatari backers, as well as the toxic nurturing of extremism in places like Europe.
Not sure about his ethnicity, but his accent strikes me as East London Asian. Just sums up this mess really.
Exactly like Obama and Bush.
We redecorate the F-16s we get from the US with our own gear.
As I said before, political correctness and the cowardly attitude are to blame for much of the homegrown problems we have now across Europe.
They exploit our freedoms and they want to curb our honest assessment of the danger that their ideology (which I label Islam as) poses to anyone different than them, they'll yell racist, bigot and more of such cliches. Our political class seizures upon hearing these words and let's them further radicalise, preach hatred and ultimately commit terror. They are the racists, bigots and fanatics.
They are responsible for their actions, not the non-Muslims.
The London subway and bus got blown up to pieces, a British soldier has gotten hacked down on the street in broad day light, many clerics preach hatred and bigotry and yet what is really done by the politicians in England?
feck all.
They exploit our freedoms and they want to curb our honest assessment of the danger that their ideology (which I label Islam as) poses to anyone different than them, they'll yell racist, bigot and more of such cliches. Our political class seizures upon hearing these words and let's them further radicalise, preach hatred and ultimately commit terror. They are the racists, bigots and fanatics.
They are responsible for their actions, not the non-Muslims.
The London subway and bus got blown up to pieces, a British soldier has gotten hacked down on the street in broad day light, many clerics preach hatred and bigotry and yet what is really done by the politicians in England?
feck all.
The irony is, secular 'Muslim' nations have cracked down harder on these Islamists than European/Western nations.
Saddam didn't tolerate them, Assad's been at war with them, Egypt has always banned the Muslim Brotherhood and has cracked down on them with immense proportion recently. Everytime there's an 'Islamic' legislative bill suggested in Turkey, thousands of people take to the streets.
Saddam didn't tolerate them, Assad's been at war with them, Egypt has always banned the Muslim Brotherhood and has cracked down on them with immense proportion recently. Everytime there's an 'Islamic' legislative bill suggested in Turkey, thousands of people take to the streets.
The feck does political correctness have to do with it? You don't have to resort to being a cnut to say that people shouldn't kill each other or that Choudry is a hate preacher who is wrong about everything and shouldn't be listened to.
He isn't wrong about anything relating to Islam, though.
yet many non-Muslims claim he is, that is political correctness.
What? Political correctness is a way using language not a position. Someone who says Choudry is wrong about Islam isn't doing it because of politically correctness, they're disagreeing with him.
And Islam's like most religions and there isn't that much consensus as to what Islam's about. They've been infighting for centuries over it. All you need to do is compare is majority Muslim parts of eastern Europe to Saudi Arabia and you'll notice the difference in ideology is bloody astounding.
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Sure.
But, 72 Percent Of Dutch Muslims Approve Of Violent Jihad In Syria.
"Amsterdam, we've got a problem here."
I'm sure in England the figures are of a similar proportion.
Comparing Islam to any other religion is useless as the other religions do not pose the same threat as this one does in our society.
When comedians openly state that they avoid making fun of Islam, because they are seriously concerned about jeopardising their life by doing so, then we know that the current problem is not any other religion, but Islam.
And the honest and open debate about assessing this problem and labeling it as such, and the lack of thereof has directly to do with political correctness.
No it doesn't. The cowardice you spoke of earlier has more to do with it. Political correctness just says you shouldn't say offensive things not that you should avoid topics altogether. Example: calling a disabled people names is politically incorrect, talking about disability isn't. Example two: Danny Welbeck scores a goal, the politically correct way of telling people is "Danny Welbeck scored a goal" and the incorrect way is "That nigger Welbeck scored a goal". Similarly, there's nothing about political correctness that says you can't talk about Islam, but it would say that you shouldn't use offensive language when doing so.
And I don't disagree that Islam is doing more damage than a lot of other ideologies at the moment. I just think this political correctness angle you're coming from is nonsense.
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Political correctness aside. Please elaborate on this.
Which other religions are on par with Islam in the present day of times.
I'm an Atheist. And I cannot think of any other religion that is as threatening as Islam is. In the Islamic Caliphate non-Muslims of faith get the chance to either pay jizya or convert. If they refuse either, they will be executed. Guess what happens to those that are irreligious / atheist?
The Islamic Caliphate governs by applying the Quran, Hadiths and Sharia Law. So in essence they are true Muslims. And an astonishing percentage of 72 in The Netherlands support IS's dealings in the Middle East. An astounding amount of sympathisers with IS lives amongst us in Europe. Threatening to commit atrocities in our cities too.
We see Muslim youths across Europe, actually across the World cause the same problems everywhere. Poor integration, clusters of fanaticism, lack of respect for the values and ethics of their non-Muslim neighbours. It's the same story everywhere.
The US has its share of Christian hardliners, but none of them commit terrorist acts of the magnitute that Muslims do. In the Netherlands other religions are totally pacifist, not bothering anyone at all and I dare to claim for much of Europe the same is true. There is no other religion that you can equate with Islamic madness in the present day. You claiming so, is quite frankly laughable.
Hinduism's pretty fecked up too, but I think you misread my post because I'm not disagreeing with you. The world would be better off if Islam saw major reforms.
Islam conquered much of India when it spread from the Arabian Peninsula and many atrocities were committed in the process, slaughter, pillaging,raping, murder. The Hindus see what happens in Pakistan nowadays where minorities get routinely prosecuted under the blasphemy laws, put into jail, harassed, and murdered. There sure is a small fanatic Hindu side, but it is nothing compared to the Worldwide clusterfeck that Islam is.
The American journalist James Foley got beheaded by a IS muslim originating from London.
What the feck man.
I don't know what the feck is going on in the UK, but you guys seriously fecked up.
I know all that, and again, I'm not disagreeing with you on the dangers of Islam, I was just pointing out the political correctness angle you came from was nonsense. And Hinduism's worst trait is the caste system really, not their extremists (who themselves are bad).
You say this: And I don't disagree that Islam is doing more damage than a lot of other ideologies at the moment.
How you can equate Hinduism's caste-system issues with the murderous tenets of Islam and the fact that Muslims carry terrorist attacks out world wide, indiscriminate of who they are against (even fellow Muslims shia/sunni), then I'd seriously suggest to you to reassess your perception on what makes Hinduism as bad as Islam.
Two things being called bad doesn't mean they're being called equally bad. The caste system causes a lot of suffering though, and that shouldn't be ignored. I think you've been reading too much Sam Harris.
That sounds shocking. Do you have any sources that clarify that?
I don't even know who Sam Harris is.
In any case, whatever floats your boat man. We hardly have Hindus in Holland, but we do have many Muslims who cause problems and sympathise with IS. Who impede on our freedom of speech. Theo van Gogh got butchered on the street for daring to make a movie about Islam. Fortuyn got shot in the head for talking about stricter immigration and the lack of integration of Muslims in The Netherlands. We have 72 percent of the Muslims here who support IS.
And to me that is a huge concern and problem. Much worse than what any other religion is doing at the present.
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http://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2013/05/nl-moslims-massaal-achter-jihad-syri
It was a survey conducted by a Dutch TV station called NCRV.
Easy fix, move all civilians and peace friendly people out of the middle-east and bomb it all down, then re-build it.
How long have they waged war against each other down there? How long do they expect it to continue?
Sins of the fathers and all that...
How long have they waged war against each other down there? How long do they expect it to continue?
Sins of the fathers and all that...
That mentions that 72% of Dutch Muslims support the opposition in Syria, not ISIS in Iraq.
Tried to watch that video but couldn't. I listened to Foley's last words, which was difficult in itself, and then watched his grimaced face as his murderer spoke to the camera, foretelling his fate.
Horrible, horrible viewing.
Horrible, horrible viewing.
There isn't much opposition other than ISIS left.
I'm pretty sure figures would only be a little bit lower amongst Sunni Muslims if a survey would be conducted now.
Not that old .... France, guillotine
For pretty much as long as the rest of us have been?
Bloody hell, the Middle East is an absolute cluster at the moment (and I fully support your policy) but let's not pretend that the rest of the world, including us here in Europe, have been sitting here on our peacefull asses for the past 4000-5000 years. They've perhaps been going at it for a little longer considering the age of their civilisations.
Really? Have you paid a visit to Syria recently? You've really made quite a leap in your assertion there.
And is this based on extensive research from yourself?
I have to say, I'm a little confused as to how this argument has gone on. Silva pulled you up on the political correctness point and then for some reason had to 'defend' himself from accusations that Islam is more violent, especially in the current day, than other religions or that certain comedians and other public figures are afraid to approach the religion..........when (unless I've confused him with someone else) these are views he himself has articulated on here in the past.
Don't know about where you live man, but it's quite peaceful in Norway most days, and we're not at war with anyone, just sending some help to those of our allies who needs it.
That said, it's mostly a joke. It's literally impossible and not to mention inhuman to single out those who can live and those who can't.
I live in the UK (though my home country is not particularly peaceful). Love Norway, not quite as peaceful here unfortunately (or beautiful).
I'm talking in terms of human history. Europe has been pretty much constantly at war with itself or with the rest of the world until 1945. Not that distant from the rest of the world really.
I was joking as well. For one thing, who's gonna take in all these people?
Considering the Middle East is the birthplace of the Abrahamic faiths, its hardly surprising that its forever been a hotbed of violence.
I can see all the extreme right wings winning elections in the near future because of lack of action with the actual liberal mentality in Europe.
They support the idea that Dutch Muslims join violent jihad in Syria. That's a worrying stat if true.
Oh its an incredibly worrying stat on its own, I was just scrutinising the notion that 72% of Dutch Muslims support ISIS, which would be extremely shocking.
The problem I see though is mentioned in the article. It says that most of them follow the news on Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia news channels and consider them as reliable, trust-worthy and objective.
Definitely. But ignorance of such issues is rife (especially with the vast majority of middle class Joes).
anyone else reckon Steven Sotloff is already dead?