ISIS in Iraq and Syria

Maybe he made some of them? Several calling for the extermination of all Israeli's. :wenger:
Not my impression so far, and I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt. But I don't want to leave something like that unopposed, especially when done for the umpteenth time.
Pretty sure that photo of Nettie has been shopped also.
Of course, it's a (rather awkward) part of his UN speech on the progress of the Iranian bomb.
 
Did some research on Mint News Press. Seems they are a privately owned (by one person) news organization. Seem to have quite a reputation for printing outright lies in it's stories especially the one about chemical attacks in Syria.

They might be a bit biased it seems.

There also seems to be some questions over just who besides it's founder is funding it.

It's staff of journalists are really just a bunch of bloggers.

The story on the million Muslim protesting Isil turned out to be a total lie sourced from an anti-Semite but they refuse to back down.
 
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Man, just look at the outright Nazi comments below that article and it might make you think about the consequences of the propaganda you tirelessly post here.
Interesting. You call what I post propaganda but make no effort to refute the evidence they supply. You and others attack the fact that it's not from a mainstream source but make no effort to explain why those more recognised media refuse to portray anything critical of the "rebels". Maybe it's the mainstream media that is feeding us propaganda and people like Postol, Hersch, Pilger and a host of others struggle to find a recognised platform to expose the truth.
 
Is this the same Hersh who is going around saying the Russian interference in US elections story is a CIA fabrication ?
 
Interesting. You call what I post propaganda but make no effort to refute the evidence they supply. You and others attack the fact that it's not from a mainstream source but make no effort to explain why those more recognised media refuse to portray anything critical of the "rebels". Maybe it's the mainstream media that is feeding us propaganda and people like Postol, Hersch, Pilger and a host of others struggle to find a recognised platform to expose the truth.
I'm not judging pieces of information/opinion/propaganda on whether they're from a mainstream source or not, that's solely your idea of what I'm doing.

But my question was another one. Are you really comfortable with spreading online content that features things like this in the comment section (the users being affirmative of the piece, of course):
All Wars are started and maintained by the Edomite Jews.
Gutele Schnaper, Mayer Amschel Rothschild’s wife died, before her death she would state, “If my sons did not want wars, there would be none.”
Delenda est Israel. One day the Moslems will awake up to the driving force behind their mutual destruction.
[User 1]
End game:
Israel wiped from map.

[User 2]
That's what happens to malignant tumors.

[User 3]
Radiation Therapy?
or perhaps
Eradication Therapy!
[Zionist/Jewish media dominance is] a sickness that not even Joe Goebbels dreamed of inducing.
Goy-tards
Or does it at least give you a bit of a headache concerning these sites and their content?
 
I'm not judging pieces of information/opinion/propaganda on whether they're from a mainstream source or not, that's solely your idea of what I'm doing.

But my question was another one. Are you really comfortable with spreading online content that features things like this in the comment section (the users being affirmative of the piece, of course):






Or does it at least give you a bit of a headache concerning these sites and their content?
What's funny is he will dismiss info based on it's source but then when the shoe is on the other foot and people point out issues with his sources it some how isn't right.
 
I'm not judging pieces of information/opinion/propaganda on whether they're from a mainstream source or not, that's solely your idea of what I'm doing.

But my question was another one. Are you really comfortable with spreading online content that features things like this in the comment section (the users being affirmative of the piece, of course):






Or does it at least give you a bit of a headache concerning these sites and their content?
A lot of people are angry at Israel. A lot of people spout shit in comment sections. A lot of people don't address the content I referenced.
 
odd that you can belittle sources you don't like and therefore bring their content into question but when others point out issues with your sources thus bringing the content into question somehow that is wrong.
 
Again it is weird how he often calls into question other sources but call into question any of his sources and we get silly fa la la posts from him.

Standard conspiracy theorist stuff. Move the goal posts so their articles should be "explored and discussed" as if they are mainstream journalism.
 
A lot of people are angry at Israel. A lot of people spout shit in comment sections.
'Angry at Israel', 'spout shit'. The usual downplaying strategies are in place, okay.
A lot of people don't address the content I referenced.
That's because there's a difference between credible evidence and simply illustrating an idée fixe over and over. A lot of people won't be willing to extensively discuss 'evidence' from posters who claim that governments cover up UFO sightings, or that the moon landings were fake, and for the very same reasons.
 
No one sensible who knows anything about Syria denies the plot to destabilise Assad's government in Syria because it's absolutely borne out by leaked documents and testimony. That's a far cry from "conspiracy theory nonsense". As is the enormous amount of aid and weapons supplied to "rebels", including the White Helmets. Posting links to articles that seek expose truths not aired on mainstream media is my attempt to combat propaganda. If you'd only take the time to read what I've posted with an open mind I'm sure you'd see that.
 
No one sensible who knows anything about Syria denies the plot to destabilise Assad's government in Syria because it's absolutely borne out by leaked documents and testimony. That's a far cry from "conspiracy theory nonsense". As is the enormous amount of aid and weapons supplied to "rebels", including the White Helmets. Posting links to articles that seek expose truths not aired on mainstream media is my attempt to combat propaganda. If you'd only take the time to read what I've posted with an open mind I'm sure you'd see that.
I've read the article, and the author is claiming the Syrian civil war is "masterminded" and "orchestrated" by Israel, planned and arranged years in advance. The actions of the US, Saudi-Arabia, Sunni jihadists, etc. are all traced back to this purported Israeli scheme. (Except for the most recent times, where this scheme is said to have suddenly gone to waste.)

So it attributes an absolutely laughable amount of power and influence to Israel, and declares it to be the main source of this war through its conspirative moves, something that's just a thinly-veiled version of the old anti-Jewish paranoia. Which brings us to the antisemitic comments I have quoted earlier, whose authors understand this very well, and don't need to care about veiling anything.
 
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I've read the article, and the author is claiming the Syrian civil war is "masterminded" and "orchestrated" by Israel, planned and arranged years in advance. The actions of the US, Saudi-Arabia, Sunni jihadists, etc. are all traced back to this purported Israeli scheme. (Except for the most recent times, where this scheme is said to have suddenly gone to waste.)

So it attributes an absolutely laughable amount of power and influence to Israel, and declares it to be the main source of this war through its conspirative moves, something that's just a thinly-veiled version of the old anti-Jewish paranoia. Which brings us to the antisemitic comments I have quoted earlier, whose authors understand this very well, and don't need to care about veiling anything.
There's a really unhealthy confusion between criticism of the actions of the state of Israel and anti-Semitism. I don't really want to get into that morass here though. Of course vile anti-Semitic comments posted in response to that or any other article are bang out of order. That's really not what should be under discussion here though.
The Israeli lobby both here - as illustrated by the furore over Patel's and Polak's trip and meetings in Israel and the Golan (where she apparently sought to secure UK taxpayer funding for, among other things, a hospital that is known to have patched up AlQaeda affiliated terrorists) - and in the US is extremely powerful and influential. I don't think anybody is going to argue with that are they? Did you follow the links provided in article?
 
I don't think its far-fetched to say that Israel would have handsomely benefited from the turmoil in Syria. Undermine a neighbouring nemesis while attempting to get Iran and Hezbollah caught up in the quagmire. Unfortunately for them it seems the latter two have come out of it stronger. Its why we have Orange Mussolini and Nutty Yahoo jerking each other off, trying to desperately drum up intensified cold warfare against Iran with this cute Lebanese episode.

The 'anti-semitism' jibes are lazy retorts usually used by Israel's hawkish apologists to silence any criticism towards the state.
 
I don't think its far-fetched to say that Israel would have handsomely benefited from the turmoil in Syria. Undermine a neighbouring nemesis while attempting to get Iran and Hezbollah caught up in the quagmire. Unfortunately for them it seems the latter two have come out of it stronger. Its why we have Orange Mussolini and Nutty Yahoo jerking each other off, trying to desperately drum up intensified cold warfare against Iran with this cute Lebanese episode.
So you agree that Israel has initiated and masterminded the Syrian civil war, then? Because that's the exact claim we are talking about here.
The 'anti-semitism' jibes are lazy retorts usually used by Israel's hawkish apologists to silence any criticism towards the state.
Well, there actually is such a thing. And it's remarkable how reliably generic complaints about 'silencing criticism towards Israel' pop up in such a situation, regardless of the actual occasion.
 
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Oh FFS! Why does no one address the article?
I did by pointing out the major issues with the source. Same as you have done many times with the MSM.

So FFS why is it okay for you to question the source but not allowed for others to question your sources?

when the source is that dodgy no need to take the article seriously.
 
I don't think its far-fetched to say that Israel would have handsomely benefited from the turmoil in Syria. Undermine a neighbouring nemesis while attempting to get Iran and Hezbollah caught up in the quagmire. Unfortunately for them it seems the latter two have come out of it stronger. Its why we have Orange Mussolini and Nutty Yahoo jerking each other off, trying to desperately drum up intensified cold warfare against Iran with this cute Lebanese episode.

The 'anti-semitism' jibes are lazy retorts usually used by Israel's hawkish apologists to silence any criticism towards the state.
Except when the actual comments from the source were pointed out....
 
I did by pointing out the major issues with the source. Same as you have done many times with the MSM.

So FFS why is it okay for you to question the source but not allowed for others to question your sources?

when the source is that dodgy no need to take the article seriously.
Did the MSM publish Postol's report on Khan Sheikhoun? No. Yet he is emeritus professor at MIT specialising in munitions with extensive experience. Why would they refuse to publish it? Why did all except Die Welt refuse to publish Seymour Hersh's article on the same event? He is a Pulitzer prize winner. Why is John Pilger so critical of the reporting of the Syrian conflict? Do you not see that anyone critical of the opposition to the Syrian government struggles to find a mainstream media outlet and is therefore forced to find alternative avenues?
You criticise an article, not because of it's factual or evidential validity, but because it's not one you recognise and because of the comments section.
Were you critical of Britain's best selling newspaper before it was shut down as a result of a judicial inquiry?
I think it's very sad if people are so determined to shut out any voice they don't recognise just because... Well, just because.
 
Except when the actual comments from the source were pointed out....
How often have you posted criticism of a mainstream media article because of some garbage spewed forth it its comments section? Or are you saying such comments never appear in comments sections in msm?
 
Standard conspiracy theorist stuff. Move the goal posts so their articles should be "explored and discussed" as if they are mainstream journalism.

Do you actually not know who Hersh is? He is the guy who uncovered the My Lai massacre, and exposed Abu Graib. He is a Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist. He tends to be unpopular with die hard pro USA USA USA types, because he tends to uncover dirty laundry. So I can see why you don't know who he is, or like what he says.
 
Do you actually not know who Hersh is? He is the guy who uncovered the My Lai massacre, and exposed Abu Graib. He is a Pulitzer prize winning investigative journalist. He tends to be unpopular with die hard pro USA USA USA types, because he tends to uncover dirty laundry. So I can see why you don't know who he is, or like what he says.

My post wasn't aimed at Hersh - just a general observation about alternative news types who live off fringe narratives. Although from what I've read of Hersh recently, he appears to believe the Russia stuff is all made up, so I wouldn't exactly call him unimpeachable.
 
I see that the Guardian and BBC's Panorama tonight will be "sensationally lifting the lid on UK tax payers funding terrorists in Syria". As I've said before I don't pay TV licence fees anymore so I won't be able to watch tonight. If some among you do watch I'd be interested to know how much depth they go into. Will they, I wonder, dig as deep as this... (for example)?
http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/12/...fco-financing-terrorism-syria-taxpayer-funds/
 
Oh FFS! Why does no one address the article?

Hey, remember when I posted a link to a piece on the Khan Sheikoun thing from Bellingcat and you dismissed it on the basis that "Anyone - or organisation - willing to put such tremendous effort into constructing a case against someone or some country has an obvious and unsettling agenda"? Does that same argument not apply to the sources you choose to post from?
 
But feck it, here we go...

The article linked to here is a good interesting read with good links to sources like the Clinton emails etc..


Let's take some of the main claims in the article and track them down.

"State Department diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks have shown that in 2006, five years before the conflict in Syria manifested, the government of Israel had hatched a plan to overthrow the Assad government by engineering sectarian strife in the country, creating paranoia within the highest-ranks of the Syrian government, and isolating Syria from its strongest regional ally, Iran. Israel then passed this plan along to the United States."

Tellingly, there is no citation or link for this claim. The link above goes to another article from the same website (a common practice in this article), which discusses the 2006 cables without linking to them. I'll assume, however, that they're referring to this cable which I think you've mentioned before in this thread and which does not mention Israel once. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's impossible to tell given the lack of any links.

"One email, forwarded by Clinton to her advisor Jacob Sullivan, argues that Israel is convinced that Iran would lose “its only ally” in the region were Assad’s government to collapse."

The email is posted, and reveals a lot more than that brief excerpt above, including discussions with Israeli officials who obviously prefer the continuance of the stability provided by Assad's rule to the prospect of "growing success of the rebel forces of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)." All of which reflects what I heard all over Israel when I lived there in 2011 - 2012 - there was no unified thinking on the future of Syria in Israel, the place was very much split between those who saw an opportunity in the Syrian war, and those who feared what would happen after Assad (hey, kind of like the Cafe!).

The next email posted is a standard diplomatic report (they all are in fact), anonymously authored, and containing no proof at all that Israel has orchestrated anything in Syria, just an argument that the fall of Assad might benefit Israel (in other words, the type of article that gets published in Foreign Policy or similar publications every so often).

Then the "aiding the rebels" section. All links in the first part lead to a WSJ article which is behind a paywall, so I can't read it. For what it's worth, a while back I posted this very detailed article on the same topic by someone who knows his Syrian rebel groups inside-out - Israel's Relations with the Syrian Rebels

"in June, Israel attacked several Syrian military positions after claiming a stray mortar had landed within the boundaries of the Golan Heights, part of Syria that has long been occupied by Israel."

This claim eventually leads to this article which contains no links, but cites the same WSJ article I can't read.

"In June of last year, Israel’s military intelligence chief, Major General Herzi Halevi, openly stated that Israel does not want to see Daesh defeated in Syria"

This claim, and all results of googling "Herzi Halevi Herzliya ISIS" eventually lead back to this article on al-Masdar, the website of a prominent supporter of the Syrian government who I'm sure you follow on Twitter. It contains no citations or links, even though Halevi's remarks are available to watch in full on youtube. I'll admit I haven't watched all 50 minutes, but I'll be surprised if you can find evidence for al-Masdar's assertion.

"Israeli officials had regularly noted that Daesh conquering the whole of Syria would be preferable to the survival of the Assad government."

The link eventually leads to a Ynet article in which one Israeli official says he prefers ISIS to Iran. Which is a bit different.

"the conflict in Syria has proven beneficial to this end, allowing Israel to send even more settlers into the Golan, an estimated 100,000 over five years."

The link is to another article on the same site which claims this has been proposed by one minority faction in the government, with no evidence that anything has ever come of it.

"Israel is largely interested in gaining control over the Golan for economic reasons, owing to the occupied territory’s oil reserves"

Israel has controlled the Golan since 1967, and annexed it in 1981. You only have to visit the Golan to understand why they won't be giving it back to Syria unless forced (the clue is 'Heights').

"Under the cover of the Syrian conflict, the Israeli branch of an American oil company — whose investors include Dick Cheney, Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch — has been drilling exploratory wells throughout the region, as the Heights’ uncertain territorial status prevents Israel from financially exploiting the resource."

Ah, now I see where we're going with this. A proper cast of villains.

"Israel has even offered, per the Galant plan, to “rebuild” Syria with billions in U.S. taxpayer dollars in exchange for the Golan Heights"

The link eventually leads to an Arabic article posted on the pan-Arab al-Araby. A Ynet article on the Galant plan makes no mention of any plan along the lines described above.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For what it's worth, I can well believe that at times Israel has facilitated the advances of rebel forces, including Nusra, on the Golan. I believe that every single actor in the Syria and Iraq conflicts, with the sole possible exception of the Iraqi government, has at times been happy to use ISIS and/or Nusra against other enemies deemed more threatening at that particular moment (just as every single Middle Eastern regime has at various times over the decades attempted to utilize jihadi groups for their own interests). I would say that, on balance, the Turkish government has probably been the most guilty of this, but the Americans, SDF/YPG, Assad, Russians, and other assorted militias have also done it at various moments. That's the nature of these types of wars (check out the history of the Lebanese Civil War for a truly bizarre merry-go-round of alliances).

I'm also happy to accept that the Israelis are interested in oil on the Golan, why wouldn't they be? That doesn't mean they orchestrated the entire Syrian Civil War in order to get their hands on it, it just means they see the current situation as favorable to any claims they make in the future.
 
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How often have you posted criticism of a mainstream media article because of some garbage spewed forth it its comments section? Or are you saying such comments never appear in comments sections in msm?
Why do I have to post anything about MSM. ? Oh yeah I don't. You posted articles and people responded to them. That's how a forum works.
 
But feck it, here we go...



Let's take some of the main claims in the article and track them down.

"State Department diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks have shown that in 2006, five years before the conflict in Syria manifested, the government of Israel had hatched a plan to overthrow the Assad government by engineering sectarian strife in the country, creating paranoia within the highest-ranks of the Syrian government, and isolating Syria from its strongest regional ally, Iran. Israel then passed this plan along to the United States."

Tellingly, there is no citation or link for this claim. The link above goes to another article from the same website (a common practice in this article), which discusses the 2006 cables without linking to them. I'll assume, however, that they're referring to this cable which I think you've mentioned before in this thread and which does not mention Israel once. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's impossible to tell given the lack of any links.

"One email, forwarded by Clinton to her advisor Jacob Sullivan, argues that Israel is convinced that Iran would lose “its only ally” in the region were Assad’s government to collapse."

The email is posted, and reveals a lot more than that brief excerpt above, including discussions with Israeli officials who obviously prefer the continuance of the stability provided by Assad's rule to the prospect of "growing success of the rebel forces of the Free Syrian Army (FSA)." All of which reflects what I heard all over Israel when I lived there in 2011 - 2012 - there was no unified thinking on the future of Syria in Israel, the place was very much split between those who saw an opportunity in the Syrian war, and those who feared what would happen after Assad (hey, kind of like the Cafe!).

The next email posted is a standard diplomatic report (they all are in fact), anonymously authored, and containing no proof at all that Israel has orchestrated anything in Syria, just an argument that the fall of Assad might benefit Israel (in other words, the type of article that gets published in Foreign Policy or similar publications every so often).

Then the "aiding the rebels" section. All links in the first part lead to a WSJ article which is behind a paywall, so I can't read it. For what it's worth, a while back I posted this very detailed article on the same topic by someone who knows his Syrian rebel groups inside-out - Israel's Relations with the Syrian Rebels

"in June, Israel attacked several Syrian military positions after claiming a stray mortar had landed within the boundaries of the Golan Heights, part of Syria that has long been occupied by Israel."

This claim eventually leads to this article which contains no links, but cites the same WSJ article I can't read.

"In June of last year, Israel’s military intelligence chief, Major General Herzi Halevi, openly stated that Israel does not want to see Daesh defeated in Syria"

This claim, and all results of googling "Herzi Halevi Herzliya ISIS" eventually lead back to this article on al-Masdar, the website of a prominent supporter of the Syrian government who I'm sure you follow on Twitter. It contains no citations or links, even though Halevi's remarks are available to watch in full on youtube. I'll admit I haven't watched all 50 minutes, but I'll be surprised if you can find evidence for al-Masdar's assertion.

"Israeli officials had regularly noted that Daesh conquering the whole of Syria would be preferable to the survival of the Assad government."

The link eventually leads to a Ynet article in which one Israeli official says he prefers ISIS to Iran. Which is a bit different.

"the conflict in Syria has proven beneficial to this end, allowing Israel to send even more settlers into the Golan, an estimated 100,000 over five years."

The link is to another article on the same site which claims this has been proposed by one minority faction in the government, with no evidence that anything has ever come of it.

"Israel is largely interested in gaining control over the Golan for economic reasons, owing to the occupied territory’s oil reserves"

Israel has controlled the Golan since 1967, and annexed it in 1981. You only have to visit the Golan to understand why they won't be giving it back to Syria unless forced (the clue is 'Heights').

"Under the cover of the Syrian conflict, the Israeli branch of an American oil company — whose investors include Dick Cheney, Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch — has been drilling exploratory wells throughout the region, as the Heights’ uncertain territorial status prevents Israel from financially exploiting the resource."

Ah, now I see where we're going with this. A proper cast of villains.

"Israel has even offered, per the Galant plan, to “rebuild” Syria with billions in U.S. taxpayer dollars in exchange for the Golan Heights"

The link eventually leads to an Arabic article posted on the pan-Arab al-Araby. A Ynet article on the Galant plan makes no mention of any plan along the lines described above.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For what it's worth, I can well believe that at times Israel has facilitated the advances of rebel forces, including Nusra, on the Golan. I believe that every single actor in the Syria and Iraq conflicts, with the sole exception of the Iraqi government, has at times been happy to use ISIS and/or Nusra against other enemies deemed more threatening at that particular moment (just as every single Middle Eastern regime has at various times over the decades attempted to utilize jihadi groups for their own interests). I would say that, on balance, the Turkish government has probably been the most guilty of this, but the Americans, SDF/YPG, Assad, Russians, and other assorted militias have also done it at various moments. That's the nature of these types of wars (check out the history of the Lebanese Civil War for a truly bizarre merry-go-round of alliances).

I'm also happy to accept that the Israelis are interested in oil on the Golan, why wouldn't they be? That doesn't mean they orchestrated the entire Syrian Civil War in order to get their hands on it, it just means they see the current situation as favorable to any claims they make in the future.
Well done
 
Hey, remember when I posted a link to a piece on the Khan Sheikoun thing from Bellingcat and you dismissed it on the basis that "Anyone - or organisation - willing to put such tremendous effort into constructing a case against someone or some country has an obvious and unsettling agenda"? Does that same argument not apply to the sources you choose to post from?
:lol:
 
Hey, remember when I posted a link to a piece on the Khan Sheikoun thing from Bellingcat and you dismissed it on the basis that "Anyone - or organisation - willing to put such tremendous effort into constructing a case against someone or some country has an obvious and unsettling agenda"? Does that same argument not apply to the sources you choose to post from?
Well yeah, I guess you have a point - in that I didn't express my reservations about Bellingcat very well. What's his/their motivation? Higgins appears to have no particular involvement or qualifications or anything really, in his background, to suggest why he (and his open source group) is able to command such respect - and yet he does. Far more so than Postol or Hersh. Something stinks there, imo. What's he trying to achieve, and why? He's really focused on building the case against Russia, both in Ukraine and Syria. Why?
If what people like Vanessa Beeley are doing is attempting to expose the truth of what's really happening in Syria I can certainly understand their motivation. I think we would all be mightily upset if it turned out to be true that our government is aiding terrorists like AlQaeda who are murdering people because of what they believe and who they support as leader of the Syrian government, and denying Syrians their rights to certain freedoms that they took for granted back in the days before the Saudi terrorists flew planes into the twin towers and the whole shit storm began with incontrovertible proof of Saddam's WMDs.
 
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That thing about the "proper cast of villains" makes it seem like some conspiracy theory invention. It's just names taken from either Genie's or Afek's own website. No weird invention there. You're absolutely right though, they are a cast of villains, in that what they're doing is highly illegal. They're extracting oil and gas from Syrian land illegally occupied by Israel in contravention of at least two UN SC resolutions. The US used breach of SC resolutions as justification for war when it suited them. It's because Israel has US backing that it is able to ignore international law. The US's military might is now diminishing the authority of the Security Council rather than reinforcing it.
 
DenisIrwin said:
Postol or Hersh

I'm curious, do you believe the Khan Sheikhoun attack was a rebel false flag operation (as implied by Postol in his articles), or a result of a Syrian airstrike hitting a rebel chemical weapons storage facility (as reported by Hersh)? At various times the Syrian and Russian governments have pushed both theories (although in the case of the latter scenario, they have provided different details from what Hersh reported).
 
That thing about the "proper cast of villains" makes it seem like some conspiracy theory invention. It's just names taken from either Genie's or Afek's own website. No weird invention there.

The 'weird invention' is the idea - which you've been pushing - that these people have orchestrated the entire Syrian Civil War. You may not be aware of this, or might not care, but the theory that members of the Rothschild family go around creating conflicts in order to profit is one of the most notorious antisemitic conspiracy theories out there.
 
I'm curious, do you believe the Khan Sheikhoun attack was a rebel false flag operation (as implied by Postol in his articles), or a result of a Syrian airstrike hitting a rebel chemical weapons storage facility (as reported by Hersh)? At various times the Syrian and Russian governments have pushed both theories (although in the case of the latter scenario, they have provided different details from what Hersh reported).
Of course I don't know for sure. I believe the only people that know for sure what happened are the White Helmets' mates. It was most probably a false flag, orchestrated by AlQaeda (under whatever names they were calling themselves at the time). Using civilian lives as pawns would be entirely in character.
 
Of course I don't know for sure. I believe the only people that know for sure what happened are the White Helmets' mates. It was most probably a false flag, orchestrated by AlQaeda (under whatever names they were calling themselves at the time). Using civilian lives as pawns would be entirely in character.

Right, but you acknowledge that it can't be both yeah? In which case, why do you think the Russian and Syrian governments have at various times pushed both theories, when they should know for certain if the 'warehouse' scenario is true or not (they seemed pretty certain of it at first, providing locations and times which of course conflicted with those provided by Hersh later)?

Do you think all this confusion and lack of any real evidence provided by the Russians and Syrian government (despite the investigation Lavrov promised right after the attack) might have played a role in convincing people that the alternative theory provided by the UN (and French intelligence, and bellingcat) has more credibility?