ISIS in Iraq and Syria

I have no idea if his assumption is correct, but he does provide decent logic which brings up the question why did the White House experts miss it?

The problem is that you can make a reasonably convincing case both ways and a layman doesn’t have the ability to assess the validity of many claims. I doubt that any outside observer without access to the side has enough data to make a conclusive assessment anyway. The problem is, that all primary evidence of these chemical weapon incidences are under the control of a party in the civil war. Additionally most of the secondary information comes from actors that are also involved (Turkey, the USA or Russia). These UN investigations are all nice and handy, but in the end they can only analyze what they are getting shown. They depend almost entirely on the good-will of actors who fancy one outcome over another. You can add another layer of media bias that will further obscure the whole thing.

For me these chemical attacks are a interesting litmus test about people’s biases, because the fairly objective answer is: We don’t and can’t really know. People, who claim to know what happened with high confidence, usually just want to validate their own narrative.
 
The problem is that you can make a reasonably convincing case both ways and a layman doesn’t have the ability to assess the validity of many claims. I doubt that any outside observer without access to the side has enough data to make a conclusive assessment anyway. The problem is, that all primary evidence of these chemical weapon incidences are under the control of a party in the civil war. Additionally most of the secondary information comes from actors that are also involved (Turkey, the USA or Russia). These UN investigations are all nice and handy, but in the end they can only analyze what they are getting shown. They depend almost entirely on the good-will of actors who fancy one outcome over another. You can add another layer of media bias that will further obscure the whole thing.

For me these chemical attacks are a interesting litmus test about people’s biases, because the fairly objective answer is: We don’t and can’t really know. People, who claim to know what happened with high confidence, usually just want to validate their own narrative.

But surely, if the Government did use the Chemical bomb and dropped it on Civilians then the Rebels wouldn't want to swap out the bomb for a different one? Why would they tamper with the evidence which will only help their cause? So given this expert is telling us that there is no way that bomb could have been dropped from a plane, the only valid explanation is that it didn't come from a plane at all.

I am taking what the article at face value for arguments sake. I have no knowledge in bomb appearances post explosion so no idea if he's accurate or not.
 
But surely, if the Government did use the Chemical bomb and dropped it on Civilians then the Rebels wouldn't want to swap out the bomb for a different one? Why would they tamper with the evidence which will only help their cause? So given this expert is telling us that there is no way that bomb could have been dropped from a plane, the only valid explanation is that it didn't come from a plane at all.

I am taking what the article at face value for arguments sake. I have no knowledge in bomb appearances post explosion so no idea if he's accurate or not.


But you can’t take his claims at face-value. I am not saying that they are wrong, but that it is very difficult to ascribe any likelihood about their truth. They could be everything between complete nonsense and entirely true.
The part that I’d tend to believe is the first argument, where he says:

I have reviewed the [White House's] document carefully, and I believe it can be shown, without doubt, that the document does not provide any evidence whatsoever that the US government has concrete knowledge that the government of Syria was the source of the chemical attack in Khan Sheikhoun, Syria at roughly 6am to 7am on 4 April, 2017.

That seems to be valid as far as I can tell. He himself admits that most of his other claims involve a decent amount of speculation.

It is important to remember that various other people made very different arguments. They claimed that it is impossible that this could come from hitting a weapon storage unit (Russian narrative) or that the rebels lack the expertise and equipment to handle CWs. Overall you end up with people on both sides making arguments and for the layman it is imo almost impossible to decide who to believe.
Does this guy actually have the knowledge and expertise to assess the situation? What are his credentials (despite being an MIT emeritus)? Did he ever conduct these kind of analysis in the past? How accurate are these forms of analysis anyway? Does he have any relevant biases when it comes to this conflict or why is he taking the time to write this report?

There are too many unknown factors that could be misleading, which leads me to the conclusion that any very strongly voiced opinion by commentators is probably a reflection of one’s preconceptions about good/bad in this conflict.
 
“We formally sent a letter to the United Nations, we asked them in that letter to send a delegation in order to investigate what happened in Khan Sheikhoun,” Assad said in an interview.

“Of course till this moment they didn’t send, because the West and the United States blocked any delegation from coming, because if they come, they will find that all their narratives about what happened in Khan Shaikhoun and then the attack on Shayrat airport was a false flag, was a lie,” Assad stressed.
http://english.almanar.com.lb/244264
 
Your right wing propaganda scope is high today. Is that 5 threads and 5 different subjects in the last half hour?

I'm now on the right? That's amazing.
I'm criticising those on the left who fetishize Assad because he isn't America and because they think Putin is great just because he opposes America. Chomsky is someone I respect an insane amount and I'm glad he's said this.

I guess you could use the logic often used here (not by you) and say that any Assad/Putin opposition is basically supporting Al Qaeda, but that is usually called Islamist not right-wing.
 
I'm now on the right? That's amazing.
I'm criticising those on the left who fetishize Assad because he isn't America and because they think Putin is great just because he opposes America. Chomsky is someone I respect an insane amount and I'm glad he's said this.

I guess you could use the logic often used here (not by you) and say that any Assad/Putin opposition is basically supporting Al Qaeda, but that is usually called Islamist not right-wing.
That is about as fecked up as possible.

I, on the left, believe Assad has the interests of Syrians at heart far, far more than America does. I don't fecking fetishise him though ffs. I do think, in this regard, Putin's support of Assad is great - as I'm pretty sure do most Syrians. Chomsky comes in for a lot of criticism for his stance on Syria because a lot of people, like me, who have a great deal of respect for him, are so sad that he is so out of touch with reality on this.

I am most definitely not an Islamist, and most definitely not right-wing, and I do believe Assad's/Putin's opposition are AlQaeda (and their ilk) and their supporters.
 
I think Assad is a dictator who couldn't stand any kind of protest without draconian measures, and who has bombed his own people for years. And I think Putin is a foreign power (like Saudi, Iran, US, etc) who is interfering in that civil war.
And I am sure Chomsky's stand on both these things (dictatorship, intervention) has been amazingly consistent for decades - he's quite idealistic in this way. One of my favourite Chomsky videos is his sharp criticism of Lenin.
 
I think Assad is a dictator who couldn't stand any kind of protest without draconian measures, and who has bombed his own people for years. And I think Putin is a foreign power (like Saudi, Iran, US, etc) who is interfering in that civil war.
And I am sure Chomsky's stand on both these things (dictatorship, intervention) has been amazingly consistent for decades - he's quite idealistic in this way. One of my favourite Chomsky videos is his sharp criticism of Lenin.
Did you watch the interview with Peter Ford I posted recently? Do you think he is likely to be better informed on Assad and Syria than Chomsky, or not?
 
Revealed: How Britain’s former Syria ambassador appeared on BBC to defend Assad... after quietly taking a job with dictator’s father-in-law

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-former-syria-ambassador-appeared-bbc-defend/
Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of it. It is an interesting piece of journalism, although I do find the phraseology used particularly interesting and hope to see Ford's response soon. I wonder how he would feel about being "accused of supporting the Assad regime". It's somewhat biased I feel.
 
I don't see anything wrong with Chomsky's stance. He's been equally critical of Saudi, Qatar, the US and Turkey's role in this conflict, holding them equally liable for the death and destruction.
 
I don't see anything wrong with Chomsky's stance. He's been equally critical of Saudi, Qatar, the US and Turkey's role in this conflict, holding them equally liable for the death and destruction.

For some people it's not enough to recognise that the rebels are dominated by bloodthirsty sectarian jihadis - they have to go that bit extra and deny that Assad is what he is.
 
For some people it's not enough to recognise that the rebels are dominated by bloodthirsty sectarian jihadis - they have to go that bit extra and deny that Assad is what he is.
It's natural to take sides in this conflict (as I am guilty of), but to abstain anyone at this stage is delusional.

Having said that, the MSM have been guilty of underreporting the crimes committed by one side, and creating this facade of a moderate, valiant rebellion.
 
It's natural to take sides in this conflict (as I am guilty of), but to abstain anyone at this stage is delusional.

Having said that, the MSM have been guilty of underreporting the crimes committed by one side, and creating this facade of a moderate, valiant rebellion.

Absolutely.
 
Turkey going to the brink of all-out war on the SDF in recent days. Something's got to give sooner or later...
 
Turkey going to the brink of all-out war on the SDF in recent days. Something's got to give sooner or later...

Now that Erdogan has been sworn in as Supreme Leader and Eternal Sultan of the Neo-Ottoman empire, I'll expect this to be the case. Though I hope it backfires and provokes an insurrection in South Eastern Turkey.
 
Now that Erdogan has been sworn in as Supreme Leader and Eternal Sultan of the Neo-Ottoman empire, I'll expect this to be the case. Though I hope it backfires and provokes an insurrection in South Eastern Turkey.

Nah man, only gonna be one winner if that's how it plays out. And of course a lot more death and destruction to go with it.

Maybe it's inevitable though.
 
isn't the insurrection in South Eastern Turkey already happening? At least in various of the cities? The casulty numbers are quite significant on both sides.

Turkish military and PKK have been going tit-for-tat. But I think @Kaos was thinking more in terms of a general Kurdish uprising, which certainly hasn't happened (yet).
 
Turkish military and PKK have certainly been going tit-for-tat. But I think @Kaos was thinking more in terms of a general Kurdish uprising, which certainly hasn't happened (yet).
I can't see a general Kurdish uprising taking place for the foreseeable future because in that scenario Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria will put their immediate differences aside to curtail any significant cross border activities and without help from the other regions I can't see the southern turkey Kurds doing shit.
 
Turkish military and PKK have certainly been going tit-for-tat. But I think @Kaos was thinking more in terms of a general Kurdish uprising, which certainly hasn't happened (yet).
thats not going to happen. The one thing that Turkey (understandably) fears is that once ISIS got kicked out of Raqqa, a lot of battle-hardened YPG troops might fancy to turn around.
 
How Syria And Russia Spun A Chemical Strike | The New York Times



Is this like the Ghouta attack? Where everyone jumped to blame Assad before ANY investigation was done, and then a few months later, when a UN investigative team finished investigating, they said they had no idea who did it? It could have been Assad, or it could have been Al-Nusra?

The NYT has since removed Ghouta from the list of warcrimes they accuse Assad of, but they never officially retracted their articles blaming him.
 
Is this like the Ghouta attack? Where everyone jumped to blame Assad before ANY investigation was done, and then a few months later, when a UN investigative team finished investigating, they said they had no idea who did it? It could have been Assad, or it could have been Al-Nusra?

The NYT has since removed Ghouta from the list of warcrimes they accuse Assad of, but they never officially retracted their articles blaming him.

Its a pretty good video in terms of circumstantial evidence. Unless of course you believe the Putin/Assad lie machine.
 
Why would the westerm media not report Postol's analysis? Why are people that rely on western media oblivious to the fact that Murdoch is involved in oil exploration on Syrian land. Why do people that rely on western media not realise that the Wite Helmets only operate in territory controlled by AQ-affiliates and have been shown to be hand in glove with terrorists? Why is the ex-ambassador to Syria accused of being involved with an organisation set up to foster closer relations between the UK and Syria? If you have been following this conflict and are still unaware that the western governments and media are lying to you then god help you, you're thick as two short planks.
 
Why would the westerm media not report Postol's analysis? Why are people that rely on western media oblivious to the fact that Murdoch is involved in oil exploration on Syrian land. Why do people that rely on western media not realise that the Wite Helmets only operate in territory controlled by AQ-affiliates and have been shown to be hand in glove with terrorists? Why is the ex-ambassador to Syria accused of being involved with an organisation set up to foster closer relations between the UK and Syria? If you have been following this conflict and are still unaware that the western governments and media are lying to you then god help you, you're thick as two short planks.

What's all that got to do with the link you posted though?
 
comment_5wJk7UyPlx23wJpo35S7TqVZN8zzllQc,w400.jpg