Sorry for shamefully quoting my own post, but just wanted opinions from the resident CA forum experts.
ISIS in Iraq and Syria
- Thread starter Suli
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Sorry for shamefully quoting my own post, but just wanted opinions from the resident CA forum experts.
*hangs head in shame*
Integration is the the only possible solution. I believe that schooling quotas based on ethnicity and religion should be introduced. There should be no opportunity for ghettoisation of minorities as it just breeds mistrust and prejudice.
The idea that we could 'part ways' with Muslims is fanciful to say the least.
All I can say is thank God the internet was not around at the level of sophistication it is today when 9/11 occurred.
The idea that we could 'part ways' with Muslims is fanciful to say the least.
All I can say is thank God the internet was not around at the level of sophistication it is today when 9/11 occurred.
I don't like the idea of an "us and them" mentality for any walk of life. Living in separate parts of the world with little interaction would breed nothing but contempt.
Not to mention that the internet connects the world in an instant anyway.
interesting democracynow.org episode today with Greenwald. Including the interview on Al Jazeera with Al Michael Flynn (already a couple of month old). Definitely worth watching.
Interesting read. Too long to paste it all. I personally found it interesting because it aligns with my fears that the bombing campaign is getting so much public support without the public having any real understanding of the details and outcomes. If the goal is to eradicate ISIS militarily then I think "mission creep" and sending troops in is inevitable:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34855514
Raqqa activists criticise 'ineffective' air strikes on IS
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-34855514
Raqqa activists criticise 'ineffective' air strikes on IS
I feel like Jesse Pinkman saying 'he can't keep getting away with this' about Bashar al Assad instead of Walter White.
Woah, spoiler alert!
Religious institutions lost power in the West but that didn't stop the nations from going to war with everyone and each other for hundreds of years after did it? And we are still at it
Has a point although I would be very suspect to listen whatever al jazeera says and hatever Mehdi Hasan says as well - http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/20...ls/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Al Jazeera is a Qatari (Sunni) news corp employing a Twelver Shia as their 'face' in many aspects, commenting on a issue that there the Sunni / Shia conflict is overblown. It's pertinent, and relevant and I agree with him in many aspects. With the conflict in Syria specifically, I think that is is taking on a sectarian feel.
Also - he views infidels as unintelligent. Have you ever called someone stupid before?
Al Jazeera isn't really a news station just a mouth piece for the Qatar ruling family(Not to mentioned their links with funding dodgy extremist groups such as Ahrar al-Sham). Their trying to get a message out , not actual news.
As for the part in bold.... Yeah that's not really the same is it ?
Well, we could make that same claim about anything really. The Telegraph being a Tory mouthpiece, Guardian being a left mouthpiece, the Sun being whatever Murdoch wants it to be, Fox News being a Neocon mouthpiece etc.
I mean, everything has a level of subjectivity. Personally, I think al Jazeera is pretty good.
And to the bolded - it's the same. He is calling those that don't believe stupid / unintelligent. How is it different than calling someone else stupid / unintelligent?
OK, let's imagine the terrorists were Christians who killed 100 innocent people in Saudi Arabia, yelling "our Lord is the greatest". Same unbelievable cruel crime.
I bet with you all I have, that all our Western politicians, the governments, the churches, and every imaginable social group would apologize immediately and beg for forgiveness. And the internet would crush from apologizes of Christians all over the planet who would want to distance themselves from these people.
I just do not see that from the Muslim part of the world. Do I miss something?
And nobody would state "has nothing to do with me".
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I would take this bet.
For example, American missionaries routinely go to African countries and persuade them to pass anti-gay laws with the death penalty, which are then enforced. No one gives a shit.
I am very sorry to hear that. That is inexcusable in my point of view. And that should be known! But you are aware that the treatment of homosexuals in Muslim countries is even worse, are you?
Firstly, no they wouldn't.
Lots of westerners, Christian or not, have no apologies for their countries aggressive foreign policies in the middle East and Africa and in fact actively support such policies.
Secondly, if you actually bother doing a little digging, that is pretty much what Muslims have done. Groups as varied as individual Muslims, to the oldest seat of Islamic sunni learning in al azhar to groups who would generally actually be considered terrorists by many jn the West (such as the Palestinian groups hamas and Islamic jihad) have condemned the attacks.
I don't see Americans constantly walking around having to bow their head in shame and apologise for their countries actions despite their officials being elected. Why are you expecting all Muslims to do so beyond the statements most groups have already made?
How can treatment be worse than the death penalty?
And how can you generalise? Of course treatment of homosexuals across Muslim countries is generally appalling but they get treated better in Lebanon for example than in Uganda. You cannot generalise.
And not sure why a comparison needs to be made there anyway, seeing as it had nothing to do with your original point?
Libanon is not a Muslim country by constitution. Give me another one if you want to start a dicussion.
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Sorry for picking just on the last part of your answer: I do not expect ALL muslims going in shame or anything like that.
I just don't see any general feel of compassion from the Muslim part of our/my/the European part of the Muslim society. Compassion and understanding for us, for our life, our style of life, our freedom. The pork we eat, the porn we watch, the blasphemy we love.
Which gets me back to my point: If there are people who do not feel compassion for Paris, and even worse they might think they'd even do better without us, then...
If the Muslims in Europe have the same feeling than us, then go out on the streets! There are millions of you. But you are just quiet. What does that tell me? For sure not that you are willing to defend me. And my bacon. And my bacon was here long before you!
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An honest question to all Muslim members here in this forum:
Why can't there be a hundred thousend of you demonstrating against the IS bullshitters in London? On any day? Why? And please don't forget you will fight for all our freedom as well: Pork, gays, blasphemy, and all that shit we call freedom. Which is exactely that shit which made it only possible for you to live here in the first place.
Sorry, I didn’t want to sound harsh.
Why can't there be a hundred thousend of you demonstrating against the IS bullshitters in London? On any day? Why? And please don't forget you will fight for all our freedom as well: Pork, gays, blasphemy, and all that shit we call freedom. Which is exactely that shit which made it only possible for you to live here in the first place.
Sorry, I didn’t want to sound harsh.
@steve9
I'm going to assume from your location that you're European.
As a citizen of a colonised country, why are Europeans not out there right now feeling compassion for the terrible state you left 2 continents in? Borders which create war till today. Perhaps the biggest flow of wealth, into a handful of nations, which was used to create the modern civilised Europe of affordable education and healthcare-as-a-right. Why aren't you protesting about the massacres committed in the name of white/western/christian supremacy, for which your governments resist paying compensation to the still-living victims?
Why aren't millions of American white men out on the street showing solidarity with the land stolen from native Americans? And why aren't you asking them these questions?
I'm going to assume from your location that you're European.
As a citizen of a colonised country, why are Europeans not out there right now feeling compassion for the terrible state you left 2 continents in? Borders which create war till today. Perhaps the biggest flow of wealth, into a handful of nations, which was used to create the modern civilised Europe of affordable education and healthcare-as-a-right. Why aren't you protesting about the massacres committed in the name of white/western/christian supremacy, for which your governments resist paying compensation to the still-living victims?
Why aren't millions of American white men out on the street showing solidarity with the land stolen from native Americans? And why aren't you asking them these questions?
I take all what you have said very seriously. Nevertheless, I have to point out that we are right now talking about an inhuman, cruel way of terrorism against innocent people. Even following your reasoning, the colonists never did anything like that, correct?
About the other arguments, I'm fortunately not from a country that was any good in doing colonial business. In some cases we actually even left behind us more than we actually took. Not intentially, though.
But, do you want to tell me that this is a post-colonial-war? That the killing on 100 teenagers and twens from 20 different countries in Paris has anything to do with any colonial past? If so, please explain. And please also explain how this would help your case. I just don't get it.
My case is that it is absurd to expect this. I don't believe the average European citizen has anything more to do with their colonising grandparents than the average Muslim has to do with ISIS.
And also, the colonial powers were very very brutal. Belgium and Portugal in particular but Britain and France too. Massacres, tortures, labour camps...
As much as I agree to your points, regarding the colonial history which is still glorified in most of the mentioned countries, this has nothing to do with these terror acts, does it?
WAR & CONFLICT
Russian strikes blamed for 400 Syrian civilian deaths
At least 97 children among casualties of military operations which began in late September, two monitoring groups say.
Russian air strikes in Syria have killed over 400 civilians since September this year, monitoring groups say.
The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said the death toll from September 30 - when the strikes were launched - until November 20 stood at 403 civilians, a figure that includes 97 children.
Meanwhile, the Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR), another monitoring group, said at least 526 were killed, including 137 children, since Russia launched its first air strikes.
On Sunday, government air strikes killed at least seven people, including three children, in Douma just outside of the capital Damascus, SOHR said.
At least seven civilians were killed in government air strikes in Aleppo on Saturday, SOHR added.
On Friday, Russia fired cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea for a fourth day against what it described as ISIL targets.
Russian and Syrian officials said their jets hit 50 ISIL targets in Deir Az Zor province, the most intense air raids since Russia began its air strikes.
Since last October, at least 42,234 air strikes that targeted farms, villages, towns and cities have been documented, according to SOHR.
It said over 22,370 so-called barrel bombs were dropped across the country in that period resulting in a total of 6,889 civilians deaths, including 1,436 children.
Another 35,000 civilians have been injured.
At least 100,000 people fled from Aleppo due to Russian air strikes, SNHR said, while another 1,000 fled a camp for the displaced in Atma, in Idlib city's suburbs.
Russia says the goal of its military operation in Syria is in response to a request by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and on the basis of a decision granted by its parliament.
The Syrian conflict has killed at least 250,000 people, according to the UN, and more than half of Syria's pre-war population of 22.4 million has been internally displaced or fled abroad.
'Not a civil war'
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said what is happening in Syria was not a civil war but a war, he told Phoenix, a Chinese television channel.
"You can say this is a civil war when you have a certain line that divides between different components of a certain society, whether sectarian or ethnic or maybe political line, something that we don’t have in Syria," he said on Sunday.
"Civil war has internal factors, not states supporting terrorists who come to Syria while they announce publicly that their aim is to change the state or, like what they call it, the regime."
Assad also said that following the Russian intervention, the situation in Syria had improved in a 'very good way'.
Russian strikes blamed for 400 Syrian civilian deaths
At least 97 children among casualties of military operations which began in late September, two monitoring groups say.
Russian air strikes in Syria have killed over 400 civilians since September this year, monitoring groups say.
The UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights (SOHR) said the death toll from September 30 - when the strikes were launched - until November 20 stood at 403 civilians, a figure that includes 97 children.
Meanwhile, the Syrian Network for Human Rights (SNHR), another monitoring group, said at least 526 were killed, including 137 children, since Russia launched its first air strikes.
On Sunday, government air strikes killed at least seven people, including three children, in Douma just outside of the capital Damascus, SOHR said.
At least seven civilians were killed in government air strikes in Aleppo on Saturday, SOHR added.
On Friday, Russia fired cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea for a fourth day against what it described as ISIL targets.
Russian and Syrian officials said their jets hit 50 ISIL targets in Deir Az Zor province, the most intense air raids since Russia began its air strikes.
Since last October, at least 42,234 air strikes that targeted farms, villages, towns and cities have been documented, according to SOHR.
It said over 22,370 so-called barrel bombs were dropped across the country in that period resulting in a total of 6,889 civilians deaths, including 1,436 children.
Another 35,000 civilians have been injured.
At least 100,000 people fled from Aleppo due to Russian air strikes, SNHR said, while another 1,000 fled a camp for the displaced in Atma, in Idlib city's suburbs.
Russia says the goal of its military operation in Syria is in response to a request by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and on the basis of a decision granted by its parliament.
The Syrian conflict has killed at least 250,000 people, according to the UN, and more than half of Syria's pre-war population of 22.4 million has been internally displaced or fled abroad.
'Not a civil war'
Syrian President Bashar al-Assad said what is happening in Syria was not a civil war but a war, he told Phoenix, a Chinese television channel.
"You can say this is a civil war when you have a certain line that divides between different components of a certain society, whether sectarian or ethnic or maybe political line, something that we don’t have in Syria," he said on Sunday.
"Civil war has internal factors, not states supporting terrorists who come to Syria while they announce publicly that their aim is to change the state or, like what they call it, the regime."
Assad also said that following the Russian intervention, the situation in Syria had improved in a 'very good way'.
Colonized by Turkey if you are in the middle east? Wasn't any land in Europe stolen from other people during the thousands of years? I'm Portuguese and I'm sure I don't have any Lusitanian blood with the Celtics, German tribes, Romans and Moors invasion.
Has the Catholic Church asked for forgiveness in regards to the inquisitions? What about the forced conversions of African slaves in the plantations of the old U.S? Any apology there?
I'm not sure about those cases. John Paul II did apologize for the Crusades though, which I think is ridiculous.
Been waiting for these stories to come out, as it was inevitable that sending fecking missiles from the Caspian sea wasn't going to accomplish much more than randomly evaporating civilians.
I know that he apologized for the Crusades but I specifically wanted to know about the forced conversions through the inquisition or the Deportation of moriscos to the new world.
One of the most interesting articles i've read about Syria in some time.
Incorrect. Didn't UK troops made a massacre in India when they killed 2000 civils in the same day. And we aren't talking ancient history here, we are talking for less than a hundred years ago.
And lets not even start talking about almost the complete destruction of native Americans in US, and Aztechs, Inca (Maya too?) in central/south America.
Or more recently, the war in Iraq and the destabilization of Libya and Syria which have caused more victims (by a few orders of magnitudes) than the number of Westerners killed by Islamic terrorists.
In what aspect, it was ridiculous?
I find the idea of apologies for stuff that happened beyond the lifetime of anyone alive today (in this case way beyond) ridiculous generally. Recognition though is important, although ideally it would be reciprocal in a case like the Crusades.