I think Madrid and Barcelona(and Juventus, Milan and Inter) would absolutely go for it. The problem is the rest of the leagues won't, plus the logistics would be a nightmare and a half
Is the European super league back? | United Statement: We remain committed to UEFA
- Thread starter kouroux
- Start date
What motivates me most about the Superliga, apart from financial control, is being able to watch better games.
In six months since the start of the season, the best game without counting the domestic league has been Leipzig (for Madrid).
To go back to the way things were before would mean not taking advantage of the full potential of the competition.
This opportunity could have been given years ago to more teams but there are league champions who play several qualifiers while others have 4.
Would we go back to the one country one team model?
It still seems to me that a group with more games, even in a B or C league, would bring more to a small league champion team instead playing in the first round against a team from the big leagues
You could say the same if United gets taken over by Qatar. The royal family won’t deal with the club directly and they bought us because we are Manchester United.
It tarnishes both our images either way we look at it. I stand corrected on the part where I said he made Madrid but either way it’s not a nice thing to happen to any club and football in general.
Where I do agree with Madrid is there needs to be far more big matches per season in Europe. Seems an age as a United fan especially between us playing any sort of European opponent on our level.
Whether we bottle the fixture or not Villarreal twice a season or Sevilla doesn’t really get fans interested.
But that’s the joy of cup competitions, meeting opponents you might not otherwise. Playing Madrid or Barca 4 times a year will soon wear off. Where’s the romance in that, where’s the longevity in that idea?
Seems Toni Kroos is an advocate
I was talking about modern times in football and you know it. Lets not compare some government asistence with being owned in 2023 by dictators that are yet to have women as equal cetizens let alone sexual minorities being ilegal. Just think about that for a second: you can go to a game and sit next to a gay person and support the club while that person is seen as the spawn of satan by the owners...and not just as a personal view but by the laws made by that owner. It's horrible to say the least.
As far as sports washing goes it did not start with the middle east it's true, Franco, Berlusconi and others are in the same boat as far as I'm concerned. But we are supposed to improve on things, not use the dirty past for a reason why the present should be just as dirty.
As far as Real making their own grave, what grave? They are European Champions FFS.
“Managed by the clubs”, he doesn’t see that as a problem?
Most things are managed by the members; from politics, NATO, EU, UN, etc to even football like the Premier League. UEFA or any "above" level organization, when corrupt, and corrupt they are, end up not serving the member clubs but something else.
I vote for two proposals with regards to recalibrating financial impact:
1. System-to-system tax
The EPL has a value of X, and an amount of Y professional players. The ratio R(EPL) = X/Y is the average 'system' value of EPL-players, in whose feet the competitiveness on the pitch lies. Same goes for R(LNFP), R(LNPA) etc.
When a player moves from one system/entity to another, have the system in which the buying club is organised in pay the difference in their respective R's to the selling club's system, on top of all costs between the three traditionally involved parties.
Super simple as a concept, and better equipped people can work out details (how to use the money, how much to freeze for transfers in the other direction, how to make sure selling clubs don't arrange for special deals, etc.).
2. Buy-ins for tournaments
Ask for a fixed percentage of every clubs annual income to be paid as buy-in to international tournaments. The payout structure will be two-fold: one payout key for tv/ad-money, as we know it already, perhaps measured by the attraction generated for every match independently, or spread equally, or what not; the second payout key however pays out the total buy-in money following a fixed payout structure.
Make the biggies prove on the pitch, and install that doing worse than reasonably expected costs them in that their price money will be less than their buy-in.
Again, super simple as a concept, and better equipped people can work out details (how to measure income and buy-in, how to set up the payout structure, how to account for minuses FSR-wise, etc.).
1. System-to-system tax
The EPL has a value of X, and an amount of Y professional players. The ratio R(EPL) = X/Y is the average 'system' value of EPL-players, in whose feet the competitiveness on the pitch lies. Same goes for R(LNFP), R(LNPA) etc.
When a player moves from one system/entity to another, have the system in which the buying club is organised in pay the difference in their respective R's to the selling club's system, on top of all costs between the three traditionally involved parties.
Super simple as a concept, and better equipped people can work out details (how to use the money, how much to freeze for transfers in the other direction, how to make sure selling clubs don't arrange for special deals, etc.).
2. Buy-ins for tournaments
Ask for a fixed percentage of every clubs annual income to be paid as buy-in to international tournaments. The payout structure will be two-fold: one payout key for tv/ad-money, as we know it already, perhaps measured by the attraction generated for every match independently, or spread equally, or what not; the second payout key however pays out the total buy-in money following a fixed payout structure.
Make the biggies prove on the pitch, and install that doing worse than reasonably expected costs them in that their price money will be less than their buy-in.
Again, super simple as a concept, and better equipped people can work out details (how to measure income and buy-in, how to set up the payout structure, how to account for minuses FSR-wise, etc.).
Let’s flip that, a super league proposed by Barca (corrupt), Juventus (corrupt) and Madrid (not sure about corruption but definitely greedy) will be among the clubs managing. How are they to be taken seriously?
Good question so then, it's a choice. Managed by the members, some or most corrupt but regardless, look for their own interest and have an equal vote, or managed by a 3ed that feck knows what interest it serves. There is no good way here IMO. Both the SL and UEFA are a shit show.
I have never seen a problem with what United or Chelsea spend, if what they do is legal. If they decide to go into debt like Madrid did in their day, that's their right.
City have been doing what they want for 15 years and they still seem to prioritise the welfare of the league over the welfare of their team.
Because I imagine Carragher is pro-Liverpool in his opinion, and his team has been handicapped by impossible competition.
But the argument falls down if we somehow aren’t funding your entire league. If money makes a difference to competition then giving your top teams money will kill the competition in your own league.
it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny
To be honest, I think it's quite a complex conversation. In my heart, I want to see every other league prosper and produce great teams and be on equal footing financially with the PL. At the same time, I'm not sure if the SL is the answer to that particular problem, certainly the first edition of the SL put forward in 2022 was an outrageous idea.
Balague's suggestion that the PL should take the TV distribution model in England and apply it in a more broader way so that other leagues also benefit from the popularity of the English league is kind of wild and to call it hypocritical because it isn't being done is just asinine.
Balagué explains it as if you have to finance us, which is where he is wrong. For me the priority is to control the lack of control of a few.
I don't really care about la liga competition. La liga is Madrid and Barcelona.
The simplest formula to revitalise it is for the big teams to be able to compete on terms (without anyone paying 100 million in commissions), attract players, keep them and a superliga, as an attractive source of income for someone serious to come to Valencia or Sevilla.
The pull of Madrid and Barcelona (for some reason) is still really big. Doesn’t matter so much about money when it comes to those 2. It’s the leagues themselves that are crying about unequal distribution of wealth however the PL negotiated those deals and their leagues could have done something similar.
The english atmosphere aside from Old Trafford and Anfield is not great, certainly in that regard germans are ahead, even fans from relegation teams make a lot of noise in Bundesliga.
Certainly also fans from midtable Ligue 1 clubs make shiton of noise in their stadiums too.
.
I don't get this debate to be honest.
Balague shares a view which belongs to nobody except him. I have not heard of anyone else out of England holding the opinion that Premier clubs should make competition even in Europe by financing the rest. Of course Carragher confronts this idea easily because it's completely absurd.
Furthermore, Carragher's first answer does not refute the only part where Balague is right "the view abroad is that something has to be done". It's obvious that those clubs are looking for the best way to persist and remain as wealthy and competitive as possible by joining a competition that will greatly improve their finances to reduce the gap with the Premier League. Instead of focusing on that, Carragher speaks about something different, the topic many posters in RedCafe use to repeat non stop "these teams did it in the past and so on", which is completely irrelevant.
The only questions I have and I think are relevant from the Premier League point of view are the following:
- Do the Superleague teams have the pull to abandone UEFA and create a competitive tournament without the English teams?
- Is it in the benefit of English teams that something like that happens? And if the answer negative, what alternatives do they have?
The simple answer is “Yes, they can do it without the PL, but they can’t do it alone”… The three clubs are the biggest in Spain and Italy but they aren’t enough without other powerhouses of the EU market. Real and Barça certainly have a massive international pull and when you add the rest of Italy and Spain (which will happen once Napoli and Valencia come to the reality their leagues are doomed if the giants leave) you get a good base. But that simply won’t be enough for a Superleague. They still needed either France/Germany or a coalition from lesser leagues (Netherlands, Portugal..)
It’s all gonna come down to the ECJ ruling. Of course UEFA will be allowed to sanctions the clubs and keep its monopole, but that’s secondary. The real question is wether UEFA will be allowed to sanction individual players and prevent them from representing their nations.
There is another risk with the latter option as well. FIFA might see an opportunity to get its 2years WC. UEFA needs to have FIFA with them throughout this battle.
Not to the benefit of Bournemouth and Watford. Their massive financial advantage over Roma and Sevilla will vanish pretty quickly… It might also become bad for the top English clubs if they are the only big clubs taking part in the CL while the Super league makes the CL irrelevant and steal its thunder.
And on the longer run, with the CL no longer contributing to the gap between the big 6 and the rest we might see more newcomers (Brighton?) fight for that big 6.. (provided the oil clubs start respecting the FFP rules)
The breakdown of the top 10 most followed clubs worldwide.. Barca and Madrid draw 40%, you add Juventus and it gets to 50%... I think Perez, Agnelli looked at this and thought the PL being a de facto Super league (only 33% pull but divided between 5 clubs and it makes it a much more attractive league) is the only explanation to why Bournemouth is making so much more money when it is (according to his reasoning), them -those big clubs-that makes the football game so popular worldwide.
There's no actual evidence of that.
The pronunciation is expected later this month, yet the trouble at all levels (in the EU parliament because of the invasive lobbying, in the UEFA because of the CL final mismanagement, in English, Spanish and Italian football because of foundational allegations against City, Barca, Juventus) will make that one not set in stone like the Bosman rule was 25+ years ago.
I think they miscalculate how many neutral fans there are. I consider myself very interested in international football and watch the matches in which I expect the best football but the overwhelming majority of football fans I know woulf always watch, say, Frankfurt vs Sevilla over Barcelona vs Liverpool. And even I think the Super League concept sucks and want to keep the UCL. So the target group definitely isn't European football fans. So it's clear which direction it will take.
If Madrid has only played one big opponent in the last 6 years, they should be asking why all their La Liga opponents suck apart from Barca and how they could help them systematically to get better.
If Madrid has only played one big opponent in the last 6 years, they should be asking why all their La Liga opponents suck apart from Barca and how they could help them systematically to get better.
Spanish teams other than Real, Barca, and Atlético don't have much money, and they lose their players pretty often to EPL teams.
Hard to compete with monsters like Real and Barca, when you are losing your players pretty much every year.
The solution is the likes of Sevilla,Real Sociedad getting bough by Qatar or some oligarch, so they can be financially doped like City and Chelsea.
Atlético could compete for a while with Simeone, but he seems past it now
Bring it back i say. In a fairer way, with financial regulation. This is the worst set of CL knockout in a long time
Jog. On
No one’s going to want to join anything that’s been organized by the likes of Juventus and Barcelona.. you would stand no chance of competing in a rigged league.
It's absolutely inevitable. They'll tweak it, make it more palatable, wait for the right time to drop it in there. But it's going to happen.
Super league clubs won't let Juve or Barça f***ck them... And nobody is standing a chance against Oil money as it is... Abramovich started rigging the PL a long time ago with insane spending, and City has now taken that to new levels.
Hello all,
does somebody know if its allowed to post a link to an online survey here?
I'm currently writing my thesis and conducting a small survey about the "Champions League and European Super League" in football.
Since there are so many football fans in this forum, it would be very helpful to me
does somebody know if its allowed to post a link to an online survey here?
I'm currently writing my thesis and conducting a small survey about the "Champions League and European Super League" in football.
Since there are so many football fans in this forum, it would be very helpful to me
The EU pronunciation has been delayed again (July not, possibly September), signalling there is no consensus yet. Hopefully, they will reaffirm the principle underlying the Bosman sentence and the Bolkestein directive, or at the very least defend the EU interest again very aggressive penetration campaigns/bribing from Qatar, with PSG and UEFA acting as puppets for their sportswashing aims.
I am not citing the Emirates and the Saudis because the UK is not in the EU perimeter anymore, so the pronunciation will not affect the PL in any way. In principle, if Qatar buys United and sells PSG to focus on the anglo-centric world and the billion fans of the PL, with UEFA de-zombified as well, it’s good and sound from this perspective.
I am not citing the Emirates and the Saudis because the UK is not in the EU perimeter anymore, so the pronunciation will not affect the PL in any way. In principle, if Qatar buys United and sells PSG to focus on the anglo-centric world and the billion fans of the PL, with UEFA de-zombified as well, it’s good and sound from this perspective.
I'm just happy that we have an upstanding club like Juventus leading the fight against corruption.
You know, ultras everywhere are too busy drinking and fighting themselves at any corner, so it’s just the suits to do the dirty job for them as well.
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.
I am saying that die-hard football fans (in the EU) should be more behind the fight to claim the (EU) football back, instead of cheering hostile parties taking over their sport. And the delay of a pronunciation that seemed settled last December after the opinion of their leading barrister, probably means that some people within the EU courts are willing to have a second look, especially after the bribing of a number of EU MPs emerged in early 2023.
@DamienHello all,
does somebody know if its allowed to post a link to an online survey here?
I'm currently writing my thesis and conducting a small survey about the "Champions League and European Super League" in football.
Since there are so many football fans in this forum, it would be very helpful to me
Hello all,
does somebody know if its allowed to post a link to an online survey here?
I'm currently writing my thesis and conducting a small survey about the "Champions League and European Super League" in football.
Since there are so many football fans in this forum, it would be very helpful to me
Go for it. All the best.
Thanks.
Hello all,
does somebody know if its allowed to post a link to an online survey here?
I'm currently writing my thesis and conducting a small survey about the "Champions League and European Super League" in football.
Since there are so many football fans in this forum, it would be very helpful to me
start a new thread to get some traction if you want.
What is "EU football"? And why should fans all around Europe care if it's Real Madrid who wins Champions League all the time, or if it is PSG?
As long as there are no means for 99% of clubs to compete, most of us couldn't care less about what Juventus, Real Madrid and others moan about. Your clubs are to us the same as PSG.