Is Ramos the most overrated CB in history?

Ok everyone knows I love Ramos now

But I think it's a fallacy to argue his quality by what happens in his absence. Surely that just means his replacement is shit?

Carry on now.
 
It’s not just his ability. It’s what he brings to the pitch in terms of aura and leadership. Only Ronaldo really had that same level of steeliness in the Madrid side over recent years.
 
They lost 2-1 in the first leg, and I believe they'd have still lost with him tonight. Yes, he may bring leadership and all that malarky, but him playing wouldnt have stopped the two mistakes from Varane.
 
Real missed his ball-playing from the back today. You can tell Militao is not comfortable playing the ball with his left whereas Ramos can ping it with either foot. The first goal is a very good example of that.
 
adexkola said:
Ok everyone knows I love Ramos now

But I think it's a fallacy to argue his quality by what happens in his absence. Surely that just means his replacement is shit?

Carry on now.
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I mean, his replacement did well, it's Varane who turns to shite without him

But also, our main problem tonight was the build up. Missing one of the best CBs in the world in the build up had a lot to do with that
 
adexkola said:
Ok everyone knows I love Ramos now

But I think it's a fallacy to argue his quality by what happens in his absence. Surely that just means his replacement is shit?

Carry on now.
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Ironically his replacement(Militao) was fairly okay in today's game.

Varane might have had one of the worst performances in the knock-outs from a CB ever. Truly calamitous all game.
 
thepolice123 said:
Real missed his ball-playing from the back today. You can tell Militao is not comfortable playing the ball with his left whereas Ramos can ping it with either foot. The first goal is a very good example of that.
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Varane has always been overrated with the ball at his feet too.

He was exposed all game.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
They lost 2-1 in the first leg, and I believe they'd have still lost with him tonight. Yes, he may bring leadership and all that malarky, but him playing wouldnt have stopped the two mistakes from Varane.
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It probably would have actually. Varane rarely makes those mistakes with him. Gives him a lot more confidence and composure

But yeah, they deservedly beat us in the first leg with him as well, they're just a better team than we are. And his red card was a direct result of a bad feckup by Casemiro, so. Still. Tonight was a huge miss
 
giorno said:
It probably would have actually. Varane rarely makes those mistakes with him. Gives him a lot more confidence and composure

But yeah, they deservedly beat us in the first leg with him as well, they're just a better team than we are. And his red card was a direct result of a bad feckup by Casemiro, so. Still. Tonight was a huge miss
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Verane rarely makes mistakes period regardless of who he's playing with. That was just a mess of a performance by a great player. Bit like Laporte against Spurs a couple of years back.
 
indeed he is, reflects on the poverty of cb options going around relative to over 10 years ago. Varane fecking up badly yday doesn't detract from it or that he scores a few goals from corners.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Verane rarely makes mistakes period regardless of who he's playing with. That was just a mess of a performance by a great player. Bit like Laporte against Spurs a couple of years back.
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No, he's usually half the player without Sergio
 
giorno said:
No, he's usually half the player without Sergio
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He's played quite a few without him this season and hasn't looked like half the player, he also plays for France and never looks half the player. Typical made up theories.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
With or without him this Real side is one of the worst for a long time. City are a better side even if Real are at full strength.
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Meh, you only need to go back to last season to find a worse version.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
With or without him this Real side is one of the worst for a long time. City are a better side even if Real are at full strength.
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Agreed.

I said it even when Madrid were about to win the league. Out of the last 11 seasons, this side is probably the 10th best Madrid in terms of quality.
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's played quite a few without him this season and hasn't looked like half the player, he also plays for France and never looks half the player. Typical made up theories.
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Probably an exaggeration, yeah, the bad performances tend to stick out more, but he does tend to look much worse when thrust into the role of leader of the defence. There's also the fact our defence has fallen apart in 3 of the last 4 big CL games with him on the pitch without Sergio. Over 3 different seasons. And the 4th was yesterday. Might be casuality, it's a small sample, but it doesn't look good

France is a different matter, they play much more to his strenghts. Varane is great in a deep block, period.
 
GatoLoco said:
Agreed.

I said it even when Madrid were about to win the league. Out of the last 11 seasons, this side is probably the 10th best Madrid in terms of quality.
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17/18 was no vintage either, despite the CL. We've been in decline, getting older and we've kept fecking up in the market. Now with Covid, it's probably going to be another couple seasons before we can go back to the level of 2010-1017
 
giorno said:
17/18 was no vintage either, despite the CL. We've been in decline, getting older and we've kept fecking up in the market. Now with Covid, it's probably going to be another couple seasons before we can go back to the level of 2010-1017
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17/18 was no vintage and clearly declining indeed but still able to get wins away vs PSG, Juventus and Bayern and beat Liverpool in the final which is something many teams in their prime, not to mention 19/20 Madrid, could only dream of.

Yesterday half that quality had gone, the other half was still there but two years older as you said. All in all the feeling one or two frightening players to scare the rival were missing was always present.

The only hope for Madrid is to promote the likes of Rodrygo, Vinicius, Valverde, Odeegard, Kubo, Reinier, Miguel Gutierrez etc, save money for the world class available in Europe and hope for the best. I don't even think we can expect to reach that kind of quality (2010-2017) anytime soon.
 
Easily Real's best looking player yesterday. He wore the feck out of that gilet.
 
A lot of football can be reduced to statistics but there is something to be said to intangibles like 'presence' and 'leadership.'

As a defender Ramos is not peerless but he has something that is essential to Madrid. Call it big game mentality, call it bloody mindedness, call it cojones. Ramos is a player who responds well in high pressure situations and his confidence can radiate to other players and fill them with confidence.

Varane would not have made the mistakes he made last night with Ramos besides him. Just Ramos being there would have kept his head screwed on.
 
RooneyLegend said:
He's played quite a few without him this season and hasn't looked like half the player, he also plays for France and never looks half the player. Typical made up theories.
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Well maybe Varane wouldn't have made those mistakes if Ramos were there, but Ramos would have committed himself. Talk about making up theories.
 
#07 said:
A lot of football can be reduced to statistics but there is something to be said to intangibles like 'presence' and 'leadership.'

As a defender Ramos is not peerless but he has something that is essential to Madrid. Call it big game mentality, call it bloody mindedness, call it cojones. Ramos is a player who responds well in high pressure situations and his confidence can radiate to other players and fill them with confidence.

Varane would not have made the mistakes he made last night with Ramos besides him. Just Ramos being there would have kept his head screwed on.
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These things would show up well if you looked at Ramos' big game performances. Thats also when he usually gets on the scoresheet. They arent intangible at all
 
You can’t put a price on that mentality. He is a super confident serial winner. He will be a massive loss to Madrid when he decides to hang it up.
 
Maluco said:
You can’t put a price on that mentality. He is a super confident serial winner. He will be a massive loss to Madrid when he decides to hang it up.
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Agree. Not quite on the Ronaldo level, but they will suffer. Footballers of that calibre are rare.
 
I disagree that Madrid wouldn't have won without him on the pitch. Real didn't seem to have a single player on that pitch that could galvanize that team. They looked lethargic and sloppy in that second half. Nobody was really taking command to lift the team.
That's why Ronaldo and Ramos have been and were so important to that squad.
For all the superstar signings, they can't replace the aura of those two.
 
He can do it all. Defense, scoring crucial goals, playmaking and carrying his teams on his back. What an animal. Absolute beast.
 
Only someone who hasn't watched enough of Real Madrid would post such a thread.
Ramos can be a prick on the field, but he's one of the best defenders of this generation. Period.

His positional play is exceptional. His sliding challenges can sometimes be horrendous, but he more than makes up for that deficit with his spot kick abilities. And I rate his overall play higher than the three best PL defenders of recent times - Terry, Rio, and Vidic.
 
elmo said:
He's the player that our coaching staff thinks Lindelof can be.

Best of his generation.
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I don't think even Lindelof's mother thinks he can be like Ramos.
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
The GOAT.

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:drool: What a player. Have no clue why some don’t rate him, he’s incredible.

I was devastated when the talk of him agreeing a move to United fell through, I have never been desperate to sign a defender so much.

He embodies everything we lack.
 
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elmo said:
He's the player that our coaching staff thinks Lindelof can be.

Best of his generation.
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I know are staff get a lot of stick, but none of them think he’s got any of the qualities that Ramos has.

he’s a great player. Imagine if we actually got him a few years back.
 
I've been guilty of underrating him in the past, but not any longer.

He is what happens when you pick good 'footballer's over good 'defenders'. He becomes almost an extra man on the pitch.
 
WHat does "his generation" mean? VVD is better than Ramos, imho.
 
think hes a better player then he is a defender, Scores some crucial goals, and is a excellent leader and captain, compare him to say Godin as an actual defender he is a good couple levels down for me, but he does have a fantastic record and trophy count.
 
Isotope said:
WHat does "his generation" mean? VVD is better than Ramos, imho.
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VVD came to relevance 3 years ago, Ramos has been doing his thing for 15 years now. Defensively he may never reach the absolute top heights of the likes of Maldini but overall he`s by far the greatest CB post 2000.
 
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