A lot of fans of other clubs seem to ignore the fact that we were outspent by other clubs in most of Sir Alex's seasons, even Everton were outspending us at one point.
Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?
- Thread starter Irrational.
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A lot of fans of other clubs seem to ignore the fact that we were outspent by other clubs in most of Sir Alex's seasons, even Everton were outspending us at one point.
SAF is still the GOAT manager for me, his longevity and legacy is unmatched. Since Barca*, Pep has taken the easy way. After Bayern he had the chance to coach a sleeping historical giant in United but took the money at City.
*what he turned that Barca team into though deserves major credit obviously. Some are of the opinion that Barca's golden generation were ready to go and it was inevitable but Peps fingerprints were all over that team.
*what he turned that Barca team into though deserves major credit obviously. Some are of the opinion that Barca's golden generation were ready to go and it was inevitable but Peps fingerprints were all over that team.
It can fade over time but outcome of all this can be a hard hit and more dark clouds over his achivements. I can’t take that club serious or what they do and I know lot of people thinking the same. Not until this have been resolved. Which actually is shame because he is great manager.
We will see. I expect nothing so I don’t get dissapointed. However 115 is not nothing. If it was 1-2 fine but we are looking at 3 digit number. What I do hope is for transparency and maybe even live coverage.
Is this the same manager that buckled at proper big clubs and had to have a break and has now found his level of managing a small club with far less pressure.
there is managing man City with its average fan attendance and then there is managing legit big clubs like Bayern amd barca
there is managing man City with its average fan attendance and then there is managing legit big clubs like Bayern amd barca
He is a massive f***wit, a cokehead, and a drug cheat.
But yeah, why not?
But yeah, why not?
Yes, the same manager.
Yes same manager that managed Barcelona and Bayern, won 6 league titles in 7 years and made the CL semi every single year
Only because that's when City stopped "co-operating".
Mirror image and yeah is Lance the greatest cyclist of all time?
SAF still has 10+ trophies more than Pep
SAF took charge of United when we were not even close to being the best team in the country, let alone in Europe. He also rebuilt the squad two or three times.
Plus there's everything he did with Aberdeen
It's ridiculous that this thread has this many posts
SAF took charge of United when we were not even close to being the best team in the country, let alone in Europe. He also rebuilt the squad two or three times.
Plus there's everything he did with Aberdeen
It's ridiculous that this thread has this many posts
'Little Lies' by Fleetwood Mac
Greatest manager my ass. Let's put Cleverley/Anderson/100 yo Giggs/ etc in that City team and see how many they win. And this is just one example out of 1000 possible ones why no one will ever come close to SAF.
City have won the league ten times but I guess the other four don't count as they were won by plebeian managers in the eyes of the great Pep
I was thinking about this earlier, although I think Pep and Jose are both incredible managers, they kind of symbolized a shift in terms of the dynamic between club and manager in some ways. I think of great managers like Sir Alex, Wenger, Ancelotti or even (unpopular opinion on here) Klopp as serving their clubs, being a part of the rich culture and history, whereas I can't shake the feeling with Pep and Jose that it's always been about them and nothing else. Maybe it was different for them at Barca and Porto, but I don't know; a lot of people mocked Ole for his 'trophies and egos' comment but maybe I can see where he's coming from now in some respects.
Looking back, you can see how even the charity shield changed when Jose came to England with Chelsea. You had Roy Keane lifting it with not even a smile one year and with a 'just a glorified preseason friendly' air and then it suddenly becomes a game of importance and a trophy. Jose counts it as part of his "three trophies" he won at United and City claim it as part of their 'Fourmidable' team. That always seemed weird to me.
I might be being too harsh, happy to hear a counter argument.
It's basically the same five ideas repeated. Many have already made your point. But you added another post. That's how we get to this number of pages.
Pep is certainly in the top five. There will be another pep though - Alonso looking likely. It will be a long time before we see another Ferguson.
In Peps first job at Barca his squad wage bill was over 30% that of Uniteds. Wage bill is usually a very strong indicator of club expectations and strength. Pep doing miracles against SAF with over double the budget, what a guy
In 2008, FC Barcelona had an annual wage budget of approximately €197 million. This was part of a broader trend of rising salaries in top European clubs during that period [oai_citation:1,Manchester United 2023 Wages | Player & Team totals](https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/manchester-united-f.c./) [oai_citation:2,2008–09 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
For Manchester United, their annual wage budget in the 2008-2009 season was around £121 million. This figure reflects the club's significant investment in player salaries to remain competitive domestically and in European competitions [oai_citation:3,Man Utd announce record revenue for 2022/23 season](https://www.90min.com/posts/man-utd-announce-record-revenue-2022-23-season) [oai_citation:4,Manchester United - Club profile | Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/startseite/verein/985).
These figures indicate the substantial financial commitments made by these clubs to secure top talent and maintain their competitive edge.
In 2010, FC Barcelona's annual wage budget was approximately €263 million. This significant figure reflects the club's investment in a squad that included top players like Lionel Messi, Xavi, and Andrés Iniesta, especially during their highly successful period under Pep Guardiola [oai_citation:1,Manchester United 2023 Wages | Player & Team totals](https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/manchester-united-f.c./) [oai_citation:2,2008–09 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
For Manchester United, the annual wage budget in the 2010-2011 season was around £132 million. This expenditure supported a competitive squad featuring stars like Wayne Rooney and Nemanja Vidić, helping maintain their status as one of the top clubs in the Premier League [oai_citation:3,2010–11 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
In 2008, FC Barcelona had an annual wage budget of approximately €197 million. This was part of a broader trend of rising salaries in top European clubs during that period [oai_citation:1,Manchester United 2023 Wages | Player & Team totals](https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/manchester-united-f.c./) [oai_citation:2,2008–09 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
For Manchester United, their annual wage budget in the 2008-2009 season was around £121 million. This figure reflects the club's significant investment in player salaries to remain competitive domestically and in European competitions [oai_citation:3,Man Utd announce record revenue for 2022/23 season](https://www.90min.com/posts/man-utd-announce-record-revenue-2022-23-season) [oai_citation:4,Manchester United - Club profile | Transfermarkt](https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-united/startseite/verein/985).
These figures indicate the substantial financial commitments made by these clubs to secure top talent and maintain their competitive edge.
In 2010, FC Barcelona's annual wage budget was approximately €263 million. This significant figure reflects the club's investment in a squad that included top players like Lionel Messi, Xavi, and Andrés Iniesta, especially during their highly successful period under Pep Guardiola [oai_citation:1,Manchester United 2023 Wages | Player & Team totals](https://salarysport.com/football/premier-league/manchester-united-f.c./) [oai_citation:2,2008–09 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
For Manchester United, the annual wage budget in the 2010-2011 season was around £132 million. This expenditure supported a competitive squad featuring stars like Wayne Rooney and Nemanja Vidić, helping maintain their status as one of the top clubs in the Premier League [oai_citation:3,2010–11 Manchester United F.C. season - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%9311_Manchester_United_F.C._season).
Its an absolute disgrace that he was named manager of the season when it should have been Emery, even Arteta is more deserving than Pep.
Alonso is already nothing like Pep and is in fact following the traditional trajectory of starting at a small club and doing amazing things with them with a bunch of players that weren't particularly highly regarded as a collective. Of course, if he goes the whole season entirely undefeated as his debut into the big time, he'll already be on a trajectory that is practically unprecedented and the onus would then be to maintain a level of brilliance similar to that for the remainder of his time as a helmsman.
If this is merely his starting point on the way to a star-studded managerial career, he'll have leapfrogged most of even the great managers in regard to point by point comparison.
In your reasoning, Alonso is more like SAF than Pep to this point in time, and unless Alonso goes state-backed, he'll remain that way, too.
Can’t take any success he had at city serious so no he is maybe the most naive but not greatest
I think at this stage, Pep has to be in discussion with SAF and Michels for the top 3.
I think that by the time he retired, there won’t even be a question on who is the best manager ever. Pep will match SAF’s league titles record in 3-4 seasons, and will have twice as many UCLs. Honestly, I hope that the fecker leaves cause I could easily see him breaking SAF’s EPL titles record in less than 10 years and pass United in 12-13 years.
This thread should be named "don't touch my Fergie" 
I get it, he is the rival coach, but many here would be singing quite a diff song if he was managing you
I get it, he is the rival coach, but many here would be singing quite a diff song if he was managing you
The flip side to that comment is for some in here it's the "I would get on my knees to pleasure Saint Pep for I bow to his greatness" thread.
Unless he has some freaky standalone achievements at the end of his career (like a double treble/UK quadruple/invincible season/revive Barca and win with all Masia graduates type stuff), I think "in the discussion" is probably the best Pep can hope for. I don't think he can ever supersede Michels in tactical innovation/impact given that he is a direct descendant of that managerial lineage. I could be wrong, but I think that pathway to greatness (signature style or tactical innovation) is also much harder to achieve now with the available history, the degree to with information travels and the rapidity with which teams and mangers can adjust now.
He will likely also never match Fergie's ascent/underdog achievements, even if he does end up with more trophies. The only things he reasonably has at his disposal are an overwhelming trophy advantage on the club level (keep churning out leagues and win more CL's, a little more variety in terms of national league triumphs and potentially some success on the national team level with a Copa/Euro/WC victory. There is also the matter of the cloud hanging over him and how those charges are resolved. I don't know how much that will actually matter in the end, but margins are thin in this rarified air. Ironically, if he does face that kind of setback and still manages to climb back to the top, that could help his case depending on the nature of the comeback. Too many people feel it has been too easy for Pep.
Is Lance Armstrong the greatest cyclist of all time?
Nope. SAF is the greatest.This thread should be named "don't touch my Fergie"
I get it, he is the rival coach, but many here would be singing quite a diff song if he was managing you
He’s just won his 12th title managing in three of the top leagues in the world. He just won 4 on the trot in the best league in the world after wining the most dominant treble last season. I don’t think outside of here it’s even a debate anymore.
I didn't imply that for some or even most SAF would still be their preffer one, I've meant it in the level of "treatment" Pep is getting
The worst thing people in this thread do is compare toil and endeavour 1:1 with cheating and bogus squad assembly.
There is nothing to amassing league titles with a squad that shouldn't even be there in the first place; give any of the great managers that advantage and the outcome would be the same.
What people also seem incapable of processing is that it's not a defence of SAF, rather a preservation of the integrity of the league and the trophies won.
Four in a row clean and we'd be devastated. That hasn't happened.
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In terms of coaching/tactics, he is definitely the #1 of all time
I tend to agree with you but It has happened on paper according to the rest of the world. So in their eyes he is the best. Going forward he is in kind of a rarified air stage of just blowing all the records away even though being done under dubious circumstances.
If he was such a tacital genuis you'd think he'd dominate the UCL more taking his squads into consideration.
He surely is the greatest at picking clubs. For the first one he got lucky that Messi was coming through the youth system at Barca and they had a GOAT team where half of the players had already shown their mettle with Spain. Then he picked the best team in a one team league when they are were on the up. After that he picked a club in England which acquired the most resources by fraudulent means through fake sponsorships. He joined in an era when Fergie had retired and Manchester United was looking for their identity post their greatest manager. His only challenge came from a club that hadn't won a title in 30 years and couldn't compete with his City team's fraudulently acquired financials.
Though, I have to say that he has the ability to make the best players play the best football more consistently than anyone. He is better than anyone else when most things are in his favor.
In his career, has there been any season, in which he won the title, when he had an inferior team than the rest of the 19 teams?
Though, I have to say that he has the ability to make the best players play the best football more consistently than anyone. He is better than anyone else when most things are in his favor.
In his career, has there been any season, in which he won the title, when he had an inferior team than the rest of the 19 teams?
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The greatest if you ignore cheating
SAF has no charges or doping allegations hanging over his achievements and he's completed something Pep never will and that's doing what he did with Aberdeen.
This is a resounding no.
His main competition in Spain was Madrid who were in their worst period for a long time and went 8 years without making a CL semi. Barca meanwhile had won the CL a couple of years before he joined and boasted perhaps the most stacked squad in history. Messi, Henry, Eto'o, Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol, Alves, Pique, Toure and Busquets is just a ridiculous amount of talent. It has also been somewhat forgotten, but the 2009 and 2011 Barca teams were given a ridiculous amount of help in their CL semi finals as well.
Bayern were obviously superior to every other team in Germany and won the CL before and after Pep's time there. 11 titles in a row speaks volumes.
At City he inherited a squad with Aguero, Toure, De Bruyne, Silva, Fernandinho, Nasri, Sterling and Kompany and still had to spend a further £530m in his first two years to win the league.
The only extraordinary thing about the guy is the quality of players he's had at his disposal and the amount of money he's been able to spend. Consistency isn't really going to be an issue when you're able to spend over £200m the summer after winning a treble.
Without the cheating, for the last 2 years the best manager in PL is Arteta and for the last 3-4 years prior to that was Klopp.
So Pep is not even the best manager in PL. How can he be the best of all time? Surely, you are cheating with enormous resources while other proper team need to play it honestly like Arteta and Klopp, you are a disgrace like Lance Armstrong and you don't deserve all the honours.
So Pep is not even the best manager in PL. How can he be the best of all time? Surely, you are cheating with enormous resources while other proper team need to play it honestly like Arteta and Klopp, you are a disgrace like Lance Armstrong and you don't deserve all the honours.
I do not see how Pep’s doping allegations as a player lower his achievements as manager.
Pep is basically SAF and Michels combined. Has trophies like SAF (who didn’t influence much the football outside England) and an influence in football as Michels (who didn’t have as many trophies relatively speaking).