Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

[adexkola]

Same with his Barcelona side, did anyone in summer 2008 think it's within expected achievements for Barcelona to win the treble and sextuple in the next 14months? Pep does it and it suddenly becomes oh that's the minimum any coach could have done that. Barcelona post Pep have made 1 CL final despite having all those Messi Xavi Iniesta plus more and it's 12yrs already.

Bet is up to $500, in case anyone's wondering

 

[giorno]

Well the clubs budget has everything to do with what players are at his disposal. And you don't think Pep has a massive say in transfers at City? Like if he tells Beguiristain that really doesn't want that player, do you think he will be signed?

Of course he has a say. But yes, if they disagree on a player, it's Beguiristain who makes the call ultimately.

Guardiola's job does not concern with budget. It is affected by it, sure, but those are different things

 

[Gehrman]

Of course he has a say. But yes, if they disagree on a player, it's Beguiristain who makes the call ultimately.

Guardiola's job does not concern with budget. It is affected by it, sure, but those are different things

Well being affected by the clubs budget was sort of what i meant. Anyway we should change the thread title since he isn't a football manager.

 

[kaiser1]

Bet is up to $500, in case anyone's wondering

Summer 2016: Peps style can never work in the EPL, he would be humiliated out, PL is too competitive for Pep to cope with

2024: 5 league wins in the last 6, he has never overachieved in his career, any CAF member can do what he does

 

[mu4c_20le]

After Pep how many CL finals did Xavi Messi Iniesta play in?. It's easy so they should be making those final pretty easily

1 QF, 1 SF, 1 CL (treble) win. Then Xavi left in 2015. Then Enrique reached the QF twice again while walking the league and copa del rey. So yeah, it is pretty easy to be dominant but more importantly the moral of Pep's story is knowing when to walk when the signs of a decline are approaching.

 

[kaiser1]

1 QF, 1 SF, 1 CL (treble) win. Then Xavi left in 2015. Then Enrique reached the QF twice again while walking the league and copa del rey. So yeah, it is pretty easy to be dominant but more importantly the moral of Pep's story is knowing when to walk when the signs of a decline are approaching.

Pep 2 CL wins, 2 semis in 4 years.
Before Pep 1 CL win 1 semi

4yrs before Pep 2 semis(won 1)
4yrs of Pep 4 semis (won 2)
4yrs after Pep 2 semis (won 1)

 

[Gehrman]

After Pep how many CL finals did Xavi Messi Iniesta play in?. It's easy so they should be making those final pretty easily

Every manager post pep apart from enrique was painfully mediocre. Only with Xavi have they found someone decent but he's working with a completely different squad and situation.

 

[Pintu]

The thing with the overachieving part for Pep is revisionist and changing the metric when it gets to Pep. Did anyone have City under Mancini or Pellegrini as favorite to win the CL any season before Pep? The moment Pep joins it suddenly becomes Treble or nothing. Pep doesn't win the CL with city which they've never won in their existence then he failed.

His job at Barcelona is extraordinary… There is no denying that. And you can’t blame him for losing a 2 leg to a very strong Inter side that defended for their life and 2 years later losing to what remained of a good Chelsea side who had all the luck of the world with them that day….


City played a semifinal the year before Pep… it took him 5 years to repeat that.

At Bayern he took over a treble winning squad to which was added Lewnadowski. A team that had played 3 finals in the 4 years prior to Pep and not one single final the 3 years he was there.

Simply put, his CL record outside Barcelona isn’t that good when you consider he is always coached the very best teams.

 

[Gehrman]

Pep 2 CL wins, 2 semis in 4 years.
Before Pep 1 CL win 1 semi

4yrs before Pep 2 semis(won 1)
4yrs of Pep 4 semis (won 2)
4yrs after Pep 2 semis (won 1)

And Pep has 1 won CL in 12 years despite quite often being the considered one of the major favourites.

 

[Pintu]

And Pep has 1 won CL in 12 years despite quite often being the considered one of the major favourites.

He’s had a top 3 team of the CL almost every single season. On average he should be making 6-7 finals and about 3-4 CL titles won, 1 at Bayern and 2-3 at City.

 

[kaiser1]

And Pep has 1 won CL in 12 years despite quite often being the considered one of the major favourites.

City became a favorite because of Pep
Were they considered favorite any season before him?

 

[RedRocket08]

It's clear that Pep is an unbelievable coach, absolutely no doubt. The question of him being the greatest can never truly be answered. As such he has never really tested himself. I couldn't imagine him being a success at a low level club for example but when he has fantastic players at his disposal I don't think I've ever seen teams as dominant as Pep has made his teams.

For me he's one of the greats but I don't understand this argument of 'greatest' - Because each manager has their own set of unique situations they walk into at a club. Personally I rate Ancelotti higher than Pep (Probably an unpopular opinion), but if I were to rank all of these managers, I just wouldn't do it in any real order - they've all kind of built great sides in their own way.

I know we do this all the time but I feel the number of honours won shouldn't factor into these conversations, e.g. Arrigo Sacchi or Cruyff won less than Carlo or Pep, but the former pair were pioneers who had a huge influence on the latter pair (as well as other top coaches today).

It's kind of like ranking F1 drivers from different eras - Schumi, Lewis, Prost, Vettel won more championships but 3/4 of those drivers would agree that Senna was the greatest (And indeed have said so), Senna in turn would probably have said Fangio was the greatest.

 

[giorno]

His job at Barcelona is extraordinary… There is no denying that. And you can’t blame him for losing a 2 leg to a very strong Inter side that defended for their life and 2 years later losing to what remained of a good Chelsea side who had all the luck of the world with them that day….


City played a semifinal the year before Pep… it took him 5 years to repeat that.

At Bayern he took over a treble winning squad to which was added Lewnadowski. A team that had played 3 finals in the 4 years prior to Pep and not one single final the 3 years he was there.

Simply put, his CL record outside Barcelona isn’t that good when you consider he is always coached the very best teams.

Eh. It's true but as with anything it needs to be contextualized. It's dishonest to blame Guardiola for Bayern's CL results. Different matter with City. He absolutely can and should be blamed dir not doing better given the teams at his disposal over the years. Going out to Monaco, Liverpool, Spurs and OL were bad results. Monaco is excusable, the others not so much

 

[kaiser1]

He’s had a top 3 team of the CL almost every single season. On average he should be making 6-7 finals and about 3-4 CL titles won, 1 at Bayern and 2-3 at City.

How did City become a top 3 team in the CL?
Were they considered top 3 before him?
Iirc they made the quarter final for the first time the season before Pep joined

 

[stefan92]

2024: 5 league wins in the last 6, he has never overachieved in his career, any CAF member can do what he does

Nobody claimed that. I even said that he never failed to achieve reasonable targets. And that's special in itself, because it's hard to never underachieve.

 

[Gehrman]

City became a favorite because of Pep
Were they considered favorite any season before him?

City were always going to end up as CL contenders eventually with the money they were spending if they could land a world class manager just like it was inevitable with Chelsea. He managed to win it in his 6th season at City. Hardly terrible but not mindboggingly impressive. Im not discrediting his work or quality, but he signed as manager for a club being financed by a fility rich state and that had groomed the club for his arrival.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

City became a favorite because of Pep
Were they considered favorite any season before him?

City became a favourite because they are as dodgy as all hell.

115 times just for starters.

 

[kaiser1]

City became a favourite because they are as dodgy as all hell.

115 times just for starters.

Most of the 115 happened before Pep yet no one had them as favorite

 

[RedRocket9908]

After Pep how many CL finals did Xavi Messi Iniesta play in?. It's easy so they should be making those final pretty easily

All 3 if them played when they won it in 2015 after knocking out Pep's Bayern Munich is the Semi Final.

After Barca how many CL finals did Pep manage in? If his management makes teams so dominant he should be making those finals easilly.

 

[kaiser1]

All 3 if them played when they won it in 2015 after knocking out Pep's Bayern Munich is the Semi Final.

After Barca how many CL finals did Pep manage in? If his management makes teams so dominant he should be making those finals easilly.

Pep made 2 finals.
Xavi Messi Iniesta all those great Barcelona players anyone could have won with made 1 final

 

[GameOn]

True, the question has to be reduced to simply asking "has he ever overachieved with a team" and arguably he hasn't. He also never has failed at a job, but simply he does lack some success to consider him the GOAT for me. What did he do in his career?

Serial PL winner with the richest PL club - that's what you can and should expect
One time CL winner with the richest PL club - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming
Serial BL winner with the richest BL club (which had won a treble before he arrived) - that's what you can and should expect
Never reaching a final with a treble winner but at least getting close to it - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming
Serial La Liga winner in a duel against the biggest club in world football, with the core of the Spanish national team and the GOAT Messi - that's a very good result and probably it's fair to say he got them rocking much faster and better than expected
Two CL wins with Barca - very good result, no denying that.

So the only time he came close to truly overachieving was with Barca, but considering some things that happened (Övrebö, Doping allegiations, bribing La Liga refs) there are even asterisks to that.

In the end his most impressive success probably is that his teams never have a true off season, he is always delivering silverware. That's something no other manager can claim for himself.

"Serial PL winner with the richest PL club - that's what you can and should expect"

Since Pep took over City both United and Chelsea have spent more money than City (Arsenal is close, too).
Do we expect Chelsea and United to be the all dominant teams of the PL?

"One time CL winner with the richest PL club - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming"

Admittedly, it is a bit underwhelming. However, it also takes a lot of lucky breaks to win the CL. That's why even SAF only won it twice during his legendary run at United.

"Serial BL winner with the richest BL club (which had won a treble before he arrived) - that's what you can and should expect"

Sure, you expect Bayern to win the Bundesliga. It's also about HOW you win it though and Bayern has never been as dominant as they were under Pep ever since he left.

"Never reaching a final with a treble winner but at least getting close to it - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming"

Again: You also have to be lucky in the CL. Bayern reached the CL semifinal 3 times in his 3 years there. They deservedly lost to Real in 2014, but in 2015 they had massive injury problems (half the starting 11 was out) and in 2016 they were the much better team, but Atletico had all the luck in the world.

"Serial La Liga winner in a duel against the biggest club in world football, with the core of the Spanish national team and the GOAT Messi - that's a very good result and probably it's fair to say he got them rocking much faster and better than expected. Two CL wins with Barca - very good result, no denying that."

His Barca team from 2008-2012 is still the best team I've ever seen and it's not even close. The only reason they didn't cruise to 4 consecutive CL titles was due to insane luck from Inter and Chelsea. Both those teams still don't know how on earth they eliminated Barcelona in the semifinal those years.

 

[stefan92]

"Serial PL winner with the richest PL club - that's what you can and should expect"

Since Pep took over City both United and Chelsea have spent more money than City (Arsenal is close, too).
Do we expect Chelsea and United to be the all dominant teams of the PL?

"One time CL winner with the richest PL club - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming"

Admittedly, it is a bit underwhelming. However, it also takes a lot of lucky breaks to win the CL. That's why even SAF only won it twice during his legendary run at United.

"Serial BL winner with the richest BL club (which had won a treble before he arrived) - that's what you can and should expect"

Sure, you expect Bayern to win the Bundesliga. It's also about HOW you win it though and Bayern has never been as dominant as they were under Pep ever since he left.

"Never reaching a final with a treble winner but at least getting close to it - that's at best on par, if not slightly underwhelming"

Again: You also have to be lucky in the CL. Bayern reached the CL semifinal 3 times in his 3 years there. They deservedly lost to Real in 2014, but in 2015 they had massive injury problems (half the starting 11 was out) and in 2016 they were the much better team, but Atletico had all the luck in the world.

"Serial La Liga winner in a duel against the biggest club in world football, with the core of the Spanish national team and the GOAT Messi - that's a very good result and probably it's fair to say he got them rocking much faster and better than expected. Two CL wins with Barca - very good result, no denying that."

His Barca team from 2008-2012 is still the best team I've ever seen and it's not even close. The only reason they didn't cruise to 4 consecutive CL titles was due to insane luck from Inter and Chelsea. Both those teams still don't know how on earth they eliminated Barcelona in the semifinal those years.

Some comments...
Yes, considering the used resources United and Chelsea SHOULD be in the mix for the title and that they are not is an epic failure, but more on DoF level (especially Chelsea) than on manager level.
Bayern's best ever BL season still is the season before Pep took over. He maintained that level quite well, but didn't break new grounds. Him winning titles earlier in the season had more to do with other teams (Dortmund) falling apart, not with Bayern being better.
I also acknowledge that you need luck to win a CL, but it's still disappointing to keep a team performing on it's highest level domestically and yet have a worse record in the CL (from 3 finals in 4 seasons to only semifinals in the next 3 seasons).

 

[RedRocket9908]

Pep made 2 finals.
Xavi Messi Iniesta all those great Barcelona players anyone could have won with made 1 final

After 2011 it took Pep 10 years to reach another and that one was in a season effected by Covid

 

[MrMarcello]

He still has the biggest say in transfers unless he's an interim manager. Which means he has to work within a budget. I know there is a DOF etc but ultimately he is the one with the most power is Pep also due to his pedigree of course.

Does Pep pick all the players or does the football management side target players that fit the club's ethos and philosophy?

 

[Gehrman]

Most of the 115 happened before Pep yet no one had them as favorite

Because obviously City is an evolution. They have ambitious owners with unlimited money and no club ever tries to poach a City player despite them being a small club in actuality. They had already won 2 Pl titles before Pep took over. Im not discrediting Pep in taking them to the next level, but Klopp managed to take Liverpool to 2 consecutive CL finals before Pep managed to make one despite taking over a woefull Liverpool side without unlimited funds and without cooking the books and racking up record league point tallies. I don't think any reasonable person disputes that Pep is among the greatest ever, but he has the odds so greatly in his favour that i can't consider him the managerial goat. Perhaps there isnt one. And i understand that his instant iconic succes with Barca means that he never had to work his way up the way others did. Same goes for Zidane.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Barca: Had to be corrupt to win a two horse league
Bayern: My left nut could win the league for bayern
City: Had to be involved in corruption enabling him to spend way more than he should have

Not even close. Not fit to lick the sweat from SAFs taint.

Did come up with an effective cure for insomnia though, with that tiki taka wanky shit, Ill give him that.

What was the corruption in La Liga? Was it something Madrid was also doing?

 

[heraklion]

Bayern's best ever BL season still is the season before Pep took over. He maintained that level quite well, but didn't break new grounds. Him winning titles earlier in the season had more to do with other teams (Dortmund) falling apart, not with Bayern being better.

That's not correct. If below is not "breaking new grounds", I don't know what is. His winning percentage alone makes him a legend in Bundesliga. There's a reason why a ruthless club like Bayern didn't want him to leave while showing Ancelotti the door after the 1st season, not even tolerating treble winner Flick, firing Nagelsmann before the season end and now Tuchel.

"He won 82 out of 104 games, a win percentage of 80.4 which destroyed that of his closest challenger, Ottmar Hitzfeld (58.4%)."

"Guardiola’s Bayern scored a record 254 goals in 102 league matches while conceding just 58. They also kept 59 clean sheets - another record."

"His side also set a record for earning the most points in the first half of the season, taking an astonishing 47 from a possible 51. "

"wrapping up the title in March 2014 after 27 games, setting a new record for the fastest Bundesliga win and finishing the season with 90 points, 19 ahead of Jurgen Klopp's Borussia Dortmund in second."

"Since the Catalan swapped Bavaria for Manchester, Carlo Ancelotti and Niko Kovac lasted little more than a year."

www.goal.com/en-us/lists/guardiola-didnt-fail-bayern-munich-not-winning-champions-league-man-city/bltc3b576b91f22d2b6

I also acknowledge that you need luck to win a CL, but it's still disappointing to keep a team performing on it's highest level domestically and yet have a worse record in the CL (from 3 finals in 4 seasons to only semifinals in the next 3 seasons).

Same can be said for SAF's UCL track record, they completely dominated PL, but showed just above average performance bar a few exceptional seasons considering his long tenure.

Pep's teams never got dumped out of the group stage in the CL like SAF's United in 2005 in a group with Lille, Benfica and Villareal finishing last. In 2012, United went out in the group stage again behind Basel and Benfica. These are way more embarrassing than any QF or SF Pep lost.. Obviously, we don't hear any mention of these here. Imagine Pep's team failing in the group stage and the type of posts we'd see here.

I didn't see anybody talking about United's failures against teams like Goteborg, Galatasaray etc. in the 90s under SAF either. Multiple times, United got eliminated in the 2nd round in the CL right after the group stage as well. And, I forgot the number of times United faced early elimination against Real Madrid under SAF, probably 3-4 times.

You also don't seem to be aware of a lot of information posted in the above link about the mishaps Pep's Bayern experienced in the CL.

--Against Barca, " Arjen Robben, David Alaba and Franck Ribery all missed both legs, while Robert Lewandowski played while wearing a mask after breaking his jaw."
-- Against Atletico, " losing out on away goals to Atletico Madrid in the semi-finals after Thomas Muller had missed a penalty and his team had 35 shots, 12 on target"

 

[Tincanalley]

For me he's one of the greats but I don't understand this argument of 'greatest' - Because each manager has their own set of unique situations they walk into at a club. Personally I rate Ancelotti higher than Pep (Probably an unpopular opinion), but if I were to rank all of these managers, I just wouldn't do it in any real order - they've all kind of built great sides in their own way.

I know we do this all the time but I feel the number of honours won shouldn't factor into these conversations, e.g. Arrigo Sacchi or Cruyff won less than Carlo or Pep, but the former pair were pioneers who had a huge influence on the latter pair (as well as other top coaches today).

It's kind of like ranking F1 drivers from different eras - Schumi, Lewis, Prost, Vettel won more championships but 3/4 of those drivers would agree that Senna was the greatest (And indeed have said so), Senna in turn would probably have said Fangio was the greatest.

Bit sensible for the Caf. But nail on head. He’s brilliant, of course. Dislikable snake, of course. GOAT stuff is embarrassing nonsense. Of course.

 

[GameOn]

That's not correct. If below is not "breaking new grounds", I don't know what is. His winning percentage alone makes him a legend in Bundesliga. There's a reason why a ruthless club like Bayern didn't want him to leave while showing Ancelotti the door after the 1st season, not even tolerating treble winner Flick, firing Nagelsmann before the season end and now Tuchel.

"He won 82 out of 104 games, a win percentage of 80.4 which destroyed that of his closest challenger, Ottmar Hitzfeld (58.4%)."

"Guardiola’s Bayern scored a record 254 goals in 102 league matches while conceding just 58. They also kept 59 clean sheets - another record."

"His side also set a record for earning the most points in the first half of the season, taking an astonishing 47 from a possible 51. "

"wrapping up the title in March 2014 after 27 games, setting a new record for the fastest Bundesliga win and finishing the season with 90 points, 19 ahead of Jurgen Klopp's Borussia Dortmund in second."

"Since the Catalan swapped Bavaria for Manchester, Carlo Ancelotti and Niko Kovac lasted little more than a year."

www.goal.com/en-us/lists/guardiola-didnt-fail-bayern-munich-not-winning-champions-league-man-city/bltc3b576b91f22d2b6



Same can be said for SAF's UCL track record, they completely dominated PL, but showed just above average performance bar a few exceptional seasons considering his long tenure.

Pep's teams never got dumped out of the group stage in the CL like SAF's United in 2005 in a group with Lille, Benfica and Villareal finishing last. In 2012, United went out in the group stage again behind Basel and Benfica. These are way more embarrassing than any QF or SF Pep lost.. Obviously, we don't hear any mention of these here. Imagine Pep's team failing in the group stage and the type of posts we'd see here.

I didn't see anybody talking about United's failures against teams like Goteborg, Galatasaray etc. in the 90s under SAF either. Multiple times, United got eliminated in the 2nd round in the CL right after the group stage as well. And, I forgot the number of times United faced early elimination against Real Madrid under SAF, probably 3-4 times.

You also don't seem to be aware of a lot of information posted in the above link about the mishaps Pep's Bayern experienced in the CL.

--Against Barca, " Arjen Robben, David Alaba and Franck Ribery all missed both legs, while Robert Lewandowski played while wearing a mask after breaking his jaw."
-- Against Atletico, " losing out on away goals to Atletico Madrid in the semi-finals after Thomas Muller had missed a penalty and his team had 35 shots, 12 on target"

Spot on imho.

Pep's one "flaw" is that he is not as all-dominant in the CL as he is in the league (still "good" in the CL, just not "great").

SAF had the same problem btw. His CL performances were actually worse than Pep's.

Coaches like Klopp, Ancelotti, Tuchel and even Zidane fare better in cup competitions for whatever reason, but I don't think anyone would take Ancelotti, Tuchel or Zidane over Guardiola if they had to choose without bias.

 

[RedRocket9908]

SAF had the same problem btw. His CL performances were actually worse than Pep's.

In fairness Sir Alex never really had a squad that was on the level the squads Pep has had at Barca, City, and Bayern were other than maybe the 08 and 09 squad before Ronaldo left.

 

[Fobal]

The bald one has a style, he impose his idea always no matter players involved. Also bar the occasional Hallaand and Ibra, he rarely goes for established "superstars", while he keeps those he already has if they adapt to him. His track record in games won and titles it's beyond fantastic.

Does this mean that his style cannot get over the top at times, that he couldn't nail more CL's, that he is a stubborn mofo (who isn't in such role if you want to be great), etc nope.

Not realizing that managing teams that MUST won every game, every cup or every title it's hard as fvck, it's quite silly. And not acknowledging that there are many teams in such situation and just ONE wins, too. The whole money behind his team is also silly (while it wasn't always the case in his carreer), lots of other coaches "enjoy" such situation. If anything one of his trademarks it's that he indeed tends to buy players that suit his idea, without usually spending huge bucks, so that is another asset of his coaching ability.

Do I personally like every decision or approach he does? or players he have chosen? nah...but for christ sake, the ammount of silly demerit regarding him in this thread is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[GatoLoco]

Don't get the comparison with SAF in CL to be honest. Ferguson was Manchester United's manager from 1986-87 until 2012-13 and from memory it's just from 2006 that clubs in Italy start to suffer due to Calciopoli and maybe English clubs gain some advantage with respect to them. And even in the beginning of the 2010s he could only dream of assembling a squad like the ones Pellegrini and Guardiola were enjoying in Spain.

 

[E-mal]

I am a united fan and I idolise SirAlex but if my neck on the line, Pep pips it slightly and mostly because of the way his teams play and how they dominate games against any team

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

He’s had a top 3 team of the CL almost every single season. On average he should be making 6-7 finals and about 3-4 CL titles won, 1 at Bayern and 2-3 at City.

"On average" he should easily become the most successful CL manager of all time? The most anyone's won is 4!

 

[erikcred]

Don't get the comparison with SAF in CL to be honest. Ferguson was Manchester United's manager from 1986-87 until 2012-13 and from memory it's just from 2006 that clubs in Italy start to suffer due to Calciopoli and maybe English clubs gain some advantage with respect to them. And even in the beginning of the 2010s he could only dream of assembling a squad like the ones Pellegrini and Guardiola were enjoying in Spain.

On the flip side, it’s not like SAF was managing Bournemouth either. It’s okay to say that he underperformed in the CL. But the margins at this level are small. We face anyone except Barca in those finals, he’s got 4.

 

[Lexicon Red Devil]

City became a favorite because of Pep
Were they considered favorite any season before him?

Nothing to do with the £1b he spent then? City already had the best squad in the England when he joined and then they spent absolutely ridiculous sums on to add to that.

The season before Pep joined they made the CL semi final and only lost 1-0 over two legs to Madrid. It took them 5 years to reach that stage again, so let's not rewrite history and pretend he made them competitive singlehandedly. The clubs that dumped him out in the CL year after year had nowhere near the same resources he had at his disposal. Getting knocked out by the likes of Monaco, Lyon and Spurs would have been a sackable offence at an actual big club, but his job was never under threat because he's managing a Championship level club funded by a petrol state.

 

[Real Madras]

I think he is the best manager ever. He can go anywhere and win. With or without money his coaching methods are the best in the world. He's the ultimate manager right now.

 

[heraklion]

Nothing to do with the £1b he spent then? City already had the best squad in the England when he joined and then they spent absolutely ridiculous sums on to add to that.

United and Chelsea spent even more.
Guardiola very rarely goes for established stars, develops promising players to reach their full potential as emerging stars.

The season before Pep joined they made the CL semi final and only lost 1-0 over two legs to Madrid. It took them 5 years to reach that stage again, so let's not rewrite history and pretend he made them competitive singlehandedly.

Imagine ignoring the fact that he won the Premier League 5 times in the last 6 years, created the most dominant PL team ever breaking all sorts of records, winning a treble and playing another UCL final, another UCL semis, Super Cup, 2 FA Cup, 4 Carabao Cup and then talking about rewriting the history. I wonder how that oil club was doing before Pep in terms of dominance.

The clubs that dumped him out in the CL year after year had nowhere near the same resources he had at his disposal. Getting knocked out by the likes of Monaco, Lyon and Spurs would have been a sackable offence at an actual big club, but his job was never under threat because he's managing a Championship level club funded by a petrol state.

As if Goteborg, Galatasaray, Lille, Basel, Benfica, Villareal had more resources than United under SAF. Using your logic, SAF seems to have committed multiple sackable offences at United as well. I wonder why his job was never under threat, glad you were not a part of United's top management during SAF's tenure with that unique way of thinking.

The other thing is at least Guardiola's teams lost during the QF-SF stages rather than losing out in the group stage multiple times.

Also Pep's job has never been under threat in any place be it Bayern, Barca or City, he makes the final calls, that's what separates him from most other top managers.

 

[kaiser1]

Nothing to do with the £1b he spent then? City already had the best squad in the England when he joined and then they spent absolutely ridiculous sums on to add to that.

The season before Pep joined they made the CL semi final and only lost 1-0 over two legs to Madrid. It took them 5 years to reach that stage again, so let's not rewrite history and pretend he made them competitive singlehandedly. The clubs that dumped him out in the CL year after year had nowhere near the same resources he had at his disposal. Getting knocked out by the likes of Monaco, Lyon and Spurs would have been a sackable offence at an actual big club, but his job was never under threat because he's managing a Championship level club funded by a petrol state.

Multiple teams have spent more than City and still aren't dominating the league or at least not doing 5 in 6 seasons
The season Before Pep joined, City had the 17th oldest team in the league.
finished 4th in the league on the same points with LvG United.
Pick the best managers by your standards and lets see the teams that have knocked them out of the CL. Should we start with Ferguson?

 

[Fobal]

At the end of the day this thread for moments looks more like "Pep is a threat against Fergie's legacy" than an actual assessment towards Pep, if Fergie was put under the very same scrutiny, those who love him would be pretty mad about the treatment towards him. In any case the ultimate ubber GOAT at any sport is silly as fvck.
In these last years we've witnessed many coaches that will end among the best ever, Pep, Fergie etc are all in very good company, calling a fraud, merely good some of this names, it's silly as fvck.