Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

lex talionis said:
Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest football manager of all time.

In all of sports, it’s without any doubt John Wooden. If the name is not familiar to caftards, do the research.
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I am starting to question that, yes pep is scummy blood money grabber and been very fortunate with the teams he has managed without having to really build a side up but can not question his trophy haul and how onnovative he has been by creating 2 or 3 new trends in football that others have gone on to follow and has heavily influenced the modern game
 
Privileged cheque book manager. Not even better than Mr. Wenger let alone SAF.
 
Lee565 said:
I am starting to question that, yes pep is scummy blood money grabber and been very fortunate with the teams he has managed without having to really build a side up but can not question his trophy haul and how onnovative he has been by creating 2 or 3 new trends in football that others have gone on to follow and has heavily influenced the modern game
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He hasn’t created new trends, he’s one of several managers that rode the wave of new developments and changes in the game.

As for his trophy haul, what do you expect with the teams he has inherited and managed. Football is more exclusive than it was 20 years ago. Less teams are competitive at the top level, meaning more trophies for the few that are.
 
Doesn't pass the Brian Clough test, taking a medium sized club to the very top of the world football tree. And before saying it was a different era, it almost never happened then either.
 
When guardiola wins a european trophy with a club of Aberdeens status come back with that question sir Alex was a genius a one off the last manager to beat Real Madrid in a european final
 
Top manager with players that fit his system and a good transfer budget

Would generally get relegated with Everton though

So no
 
I wouldn't say he is conclusively the greatest of all-time, there are others with compelling arguments that have done things Pep hasn't done with less favoured sides.

But he'd be in the frame because as much as he has had the teams and the money to win, he also takes the ingredients and seems to create something that no other manager in his era can. If Pep receives those materials he creates sides with a dominance on the pitch and a consistency from match to match and season to season that is unparalleled. It's easy to say "cheque book manager" but if you had the cheque book to dish out who would you give it to?
 
He will retire probably as the most successful ever but that doesnt equate the best when you consider the context. But who knows. It could be Zidane as well.
 
Lee565 said:
I am starting to question that, yes pep is scummy blood money grabber and been very fortunate with the teams he has managed without having to really build a side up but can not question his trophy haul and how onnovative he has been by creating 2 or 3 new trends in football that others have gone on to follow and has heavily influenced the modern game
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Nah, he's never done anything as impressive as what Fergie did at Aberdeen or in bringing United back from the dead. And he never will.

He's obviously brilliant but if he only ever coaches while having basically two teams of top-class/world class players at the dominant clubs, he can never claim to be the best in my book.
 
Tarrou said:
Nah, he's never done anything as impressive as what Fergie did at Aberdeen or in bringing United back from the dead. And he never will.

He's obviously brilliant but if he only ever coaches while having basically two teams of top-class/world class players at the dominant clubs, he can never claim to be the best in my book.
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Since he won the treble in his 1st season, he's never going to take underdog jobs. So its always going to be a what if? But personally i dont believe he could what Fergie did at Aberdeen or United or Mourinho at porto and inter or Klopp at Dortmund and Liverpool.
 
Abraxas said:
I wouldn't say he is conclusively the greatest of all-time, there are others with compelling arguments that have done things Pep hasn't done with less favoured sides.

But he'd be in the frame because as much as he has had the teams and the money to win, he also takes the ingredients and seems to create something that no other manager in his era can. If Pep receives those materials he creates sides with a dominance on the pitch and a consistency from match to match and season to season that is unparalleled. It's easy to say "cheque book manager" but if you had the cheque book to dish out who would you give it to?
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Sean Dyche obviously
 
Gehrman said:
Since he won the treble in his 1st season, he's never going to take underdog jobs. So its always going to be a what if? But personally i dont believe he could what Fergie did at Aberdeen or United or Mourinho at porto and inter or Klopp at Dortmund and Liverpool.
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But can any of them have done what he did - achievement, style and overall influence on football?

I'd say no to that too. Really depends on what you value - there have been many underdog winning coaches in football. Him and Fergie have been the only ruthless and dominant forces spanning multiple decades now.

I still thing SAF is at the top because he's done it both ways, and his success was more organic/self made. But if Guardiola keeps this up for the best part of the next decade, it's getting harder to make an argument against him.
 
Definitely the best cheque book manager of all time. No doubt about it.
 
If he retired now you can say it's a close call between SAF and him, another 5 season of cleansweep then sorry.

SAF would always be the greatest among United supporter, let's jsut leave it at that.

And to say Pep wasn't GOAT candidate or even top 3 is having a laugh
 
Skills said:
But can any of them have done what he did - achievement, style and overall influence on football?

I'd say no to that too. Really depends on what you value - there have been many underdog winning coaches in football. Him and Fergie have been the only ruthless and dominant forces spanning multiple decades now.

I still thing SAF is at the top because he's done it both ways, and his success was more organic/self made. But if Guardiola keeps this up for the best part of the next decade, it's getting harder to make an argument against him.
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No for sure he made cryuff style football the bees knees that many clubs tried to emulate. Thankfully many teams managed to maul him when his style looked invincible. There is no doubt that he's on of the most influential managers of his era but he didnt invent it, Cryuff and Michels did. But yeah the more he keeps on winning the harder it is not to have him as the manager goat. But give Saf or Klopp a unlimited transfer and wage budget i reckon they would too.
 
Needham said:
Doesn't pass the Brian Clough test, taking a medium sized club to the very top of the world football tree. And before saying it was a different era, it almost never happened then either.
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The extent to which Clough did this with Forest is pretty much unmatched, but it's an objective fact that leagues were much more open in Clough's era and pulling off major upsets was much more viable. I believe Liverpool were in the second tier when Shankly joined and Utd had only won two titles before Busby became manager. Ipswich Town won the title as a newly promoted sides around 15 years or so before Forest did with Clough.

There are managers out there like Simeone who have made a great effort of getting their sides to punch above their weight in terms of where they should be given their finances, but it's exceedingly rare. Any manager who's now winning multiple CLs is almost certainly with a Premier League side, Barca/Madrid, or Bayern. Retaining the CL like Clough did was extraordinary but again is fundamentally much tougher now because you're not just competing against other title winners in a knockout format.

There's a debate to be had around where Pep sits in this conversation given he's generally always had insane resources but if you want to be a top manager now in terms of trophies you basically have to be at an established top side.
 
Def the greatest manager after going to the best teams in history
 
Gehrman said:
No for sure he made cryuff style football the bees knees that many clubs tried to emulate. Thankfully many teams managed to maul him when his style looked invincible. There is no doubt that he's on of the most influential managers of his era but he didnt invent it, Cryuff and Michels did. But yeah the more he keeps on winning the harder it is not to have him as the manager goat. But give Saf or Klopp a unlimited transfer and wage budget i reckon they would too.
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As would most of the managerial greats. The idea of a “goat” manager is even more idiotic than the need to label a single goat player. Different times, different eras. You can’t compare. Is he one of the best managers of this era? Sure. He’s also had unprecedented resources and never, ever had to work with a squad that is second best.
 
Abraxas said:
I wouldn't say he is conclusively the greatest of all-time, there are others with compelling arguments that have done things Pep hasn't done with less favoured sides.

But he'd be in the frame because as much as he has had the teams and the money to win, he also takes the ingredients and seems to create something that no other manager in his era can. If Pep receives those materials he creates sides with a dominance on the pitch and a consistency from match to match and season to season that is unparalleled. It's easy to say "cheque book manager" but if you had the cheque book to dish out who would you give it to?
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This is a key point. One of the reason he's continually managing at top sides is because top clubs inherently trust him to win them stuff. It almost feels a bit like the car quality debate in F1. Sure, the winners typically have a big advantage by being in the best cars, but the reason the teams with the best cars pick them is because they're also the best drivers. There's been plenty of debate around whether City would be as good as they are now or not without Guardiola, but the fundamental reason he's there is because they're a big club who can offer him more than anyone else - similarly City would be worse without Haaland, but it's a hypothetical scenario because they have the money and record of success to get top talent to join.
 
Needham said:
Doesn't pass the Brian Clough test, taking a medium sized club to the very top of the world football tree. And before saying it was a different era, it almost never happened then either.
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You could say Klopp did it with Dortmund and Simeone did it with Athletico.
 
Mourinho is the best. Guardiola only managed top-top tier teams.

Mourinho or Sir Alex Ferguson are the best in modern era. Capello, Sacchi and Trappatoni were great in the era before.

Guardiola has too weak record if you look at the teams he have managed.
 
“Only managed the best teams”

Those teams want him. Why would he go anywhere else? If you were the most sought out individual in your given field what would you do if the biggest company came to you offering you the best salary and best resources to express what you do best?
 
He's succeeded with the greatest collection of footballers the world has ever seen and the richest club in the world.

He's a great manager but that's a hell of a good starting point
 
Sir Alex Ferguson is the greatest football manager of all time.
 
As a manager, in terms of building and adapting to situations, Sir Alex is amazing. Look at the squad of the last title we won: it was really nowhere near a league title winning squad, even though some of the players looked like the real deal back then. The way he kept rebuilding the squad through times and keeping an identity is unique.

In terms of impact on football tactics, Guardiola has an edge though. He was an innovator, blending the principles of Sacchi with the ones of Cruyff. And the truth is a lot of managers try to copy his style but fail spectacularly.

Special mention to Mourinho because he made everyone realize how vital was to win the midfield battle and to have defenders who have at least decent ball control or passing players all around the pitch (Mourinho teams would wait until the ball went to the clumsy players and pressed them like mad dogs, usually resulting in a ball recovery followed by one of those famous vertical counters).
 
In a few years time, he will have accumulated the most number of trophies (beating Ferguson's 48), the most number of CLs, most number of major domestic league titles, the most number of major trophies combined, most doubles/trebles, and what not.
And then it will be absolutely impossible to refute the question, whether you like him or not. He is definitely on the way to becoming the GOAT.
 
It is a very close shout. He has operated with virtually unlimited funds in two of his teams, but as we see at United, money is no guarantee of success. His only blip was no CL with Bayern, who were an outstanding team.
 
The hardest thing to do in football is build a top team from scratch.

Fergie did that 4 or 5 times thanks to his longevity (including his stint at Aberdeen), so you know it wasn't a fluke.

By comparison, what Guadiola did was take already winning teams and keep them winning with a more recognisable style.

SAF is a like a brilliant inventor whose genius to make something out of nothing is at the heart of his success. Pep is more like Elon Musk, who has his own kind of genius but one that isn't nearly as impressive and leans on the achievements of others.

I recognise Guadiola as an all time great. But he's forever in Fergie's shadow.
 
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I like that, Fergie is Einstein, Pep is Musk. One might have had more riches but Einstein conceived of relativity when he was a patent clerk, Musk already came from wealth but invested very wisely and is highly intelligent.
 
The record books will say it all. The books don’t care about Don Revie or anything George Graham might have done. It doesn’t even say Matt Busby got off his death bed and ultimately built a side which went on the achieve the dream of those who perished.

It just lists their achievements.
 
HackeyC said:
I like that, Fergie is Einstein, Pep is Musk. One might have had more riches but Einstein conceived of relativity when he was a patent clerk, Musk already came from wealth but invested very wisely and is highly intelligent.
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I don't think Ferguson caused the kind of paradigm shift in football that Einstein caused in physics. Not even close, really.
 
Of his generation, yes without a doubt.

Of all time...I have to see him do it without a chequebook. Manage Aberdeen (you're Spanish, fine, I'll you do it with Celta de Vigo instead) to win over the colossal clubs that dominate your league utterly and win a European in the process and I'll crown you there.
 
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