Is our squad average?

ifightdragons said:
Did you watch the game yesterday? If anything, we worked our socks off.

Seems like we more than anything lack technical quality on the ball. Our passing is not good.
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Yesterday game the players worked hard, but then there is lapse in concentration and focus, and they did not work in unison as well, these are basic stuff, I am not saying we have technical masters in the squad, far from it, but the bigger issues are the basics for me.
 
Our squad isn't average. It's been very poorly coached for the last 2 1/2 seasons and the players are suffering badly as a result.

What I would say about our squad is that it lacks a talisman in the forward line. Liverpool have Salah. City have Haaland. Arsenal have Saka. We don't have a player like that, a player who can create something from nothing when you're not playing well.
 
Yes.

We've got one of the best groups of centrebacks in the league. The rest of the squad doesn't really stand out.

Mazrouri is our best fullback for me. Dalot is 2nd best but the bar for 2nd best is being fit to play at least once a season. Selling Bissaka was a crazy decision.

Midfield Casemiro is a very good player IF used sparingly and in the right circumstance, Mainoo is an exciting talent. We don't have any kind of reliable consistent starter there never mind partnership.

Up front we have a selection of not good enough or too young to be reliable/know if they're good enough, and whatever Bruno is these days.

We have players who can provide quality in moments but most teams have that or have players with a lower ceiling but who are far more reliable in terms of leg work or consistency. And more problematic is outside of the defence its 100% "players who can provide quality in moments" and 0% "players who are reliable/consistent"

Outside of central defence, who in our squad can you trust to put in a 6/10 or better performance most weeks?

Better coaching can improve things but we aren't suddenly going to be winning 10 games in a row because we just sign individuals rather than build a team. We did the same this summer.
 
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PSV said:
We've played 5 games against the current top 10 and we've gained 2 points. As it stands we're lucky if we get a top half finish.
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As much as I despise this squad and our effort, there are still 28 games to play and looking at points only, we're not that far from top half. Come on.
 
The back 5 is fine it’s what is in front of it is just a mix of awful and they don’t / won’t do their job and make terrible decisions
 
Goalkeepers - good enough for a side wanting to go far but could be better

Centre-backs - very good if fit and not over exposed

Fullbacks - pretty average and unreliable but much better with Shaw

Central midfield - average but could be good in the right system - still need at least one more to compliment Mainoo, Ugarte, Case and Eriksen/ phase out Eriksen

Wingers - good potential in Garnacho and Amad. The rest are average or inconsistent

10s - enigmatic Bruno too inconsistent in general play, Mount looks a crock

Strikers - both below par
 
Amorim will look at the squad and know there’s work to do but acknowledge it’s young and very coachable.

There’s clearly untapped potential within the set of players we have and there’s also a stream of really good talent in the under 23s and 18s .

You’d have to be an extremely negative person not to recognise this and share the opinion that he’ll get more out of what he has than Ten Hag.

Ultimately the players weren’t buying in. He’ll bring them along the journey and implement a style of play. Progress won’t be instant but I’m confident it will be steady and by the end of the season we will see visibly how he wants the team to deliver his philosophy.
 
I think it's a poorly put together squad. I don't think I'd be so down on say the attack if we had at least one older consistent player up top to be a sort of reliable figure, but instead you've got kids without proper direction and it shows. There's plenty of potential, but its badly untapped at this point.

This squad is at least a top 6 side I think, when you look who has finished in those positions over the last 5 or so years. The major difference is coaching and management. Hopefully with a decent communicator coming in, things will be much improved in time.
 
Bastian said:
They're under the microscope now with no ETH to hide behind. I think we've got about half-way there in terms of squad building. We've completely ignored midfield, we don't have a left back, there is no competition up front and we've got more than enough room for serious quality in any area of the pitch. But about 7-8 players to properly build with, and maybe 2-3 more that can play a role in a squad sense.
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For a back 4 system its dreadful. For a wingerless back 3 system its actually good.
 
Some of these players are actually more talented than they're showing but they're just thick as pig shite. They need to be told exactly what to do on a football pitch instead of trying to figure it out all on their own. Amorim has a big job on his hands.
 
Depends what your definition of average is. Pound for pound the quality is on similar levels to the teams who will finish from 4th to 7th. Problem is mostly the horrific coaching, lack of any real confidence, and the lack of complementary player profiles
 
I think our squad is around the 4th to 8th mark in the PL in terms of quality, so we are underperforming massively.
Tactically though we are all over the place, there is no cohesion whatsoever, players do not know what do do or where to stay on the pitch, there are no patterns of play etc. When your only attacking idea is give the ball to the wingers and hope for the best, no wonder we've scored 9 goals in a quarter of a season.
 
Come on guys. With a lot of will and determination we can get to that 8th spot.
 
I think we’ve got a good goalkeeper, defence and midfield. I think our attack is way below average, I think it’s the worst it’s been in my lifetime.
 
It's a great squad, full of brilliant players who just need the right manager, who just need the rigth manager to get the best out of them.

If Amorim doesn't get the players playing his style within a few weeks it'll be all his fault and his position should start to be questioned.
 
noodlehair said:
Yes.

We've got one of the best groups of centrebacks in the league. The rest of the squad doesn't really stand out.

Mazrouri is our best fullback for me. Dalot is 2nd best but the bar for 2nd best is being fit to play at least once a season. Selling Bissaka was a crazy decision.

Midfield Casemiro is a very good player IF used sparingly and in the right circumstance, Mainoo is an exciting talent. We don't have any kind of reliable consistent starter there never mind partnership.

Up front we have a selection of not good enough or too young to be reliable/know if they're good enough, and whatever Bruno is these days.

We have players who can provide quality in moments but most teams have that or have players with a lower ceiling but who are far more reliable in terms of leg work or consistency. And more problematic is outside of the defence its 100% "players who can provide quality in moments" and 0% "players who are reliable/consistent"

Outside of central defence, who in our squad can you trust to put in a 6/10 or better performance most weeks?

Better coaching can improve things but we aren't suddenly going to be winning 10 games in a row because we just sign individuals rather than build a team. We did the same this summer.
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Spot on.

Can't say I share the Wan-Bissaka opinion, but all the rest.
 
Dec9003 said:
I think we’ve got a good goalkeeper, defence and midfield. I think our attack is way below average, I think it’s the worst it’s been in my lifetime.
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Good goalkeeper and defence.
Average, unbalanced midfield.
Shockingly bad attack, which includes Bruno.
 
People overlook how wide the range of abilities of players can be. What we're seeing now is probably the worst performances this group of players will have. But if they're happy and confident, playing in a system that suits them, they'll play better.

That of course is the aim of the new manager, to get the team playing well, get them motivated to win, in a formation to get the most out of them. And to begin coaching out the bad habits - the selfishness, the passing backwards, the hero balls. When (or if) that happens, we'll be better placed to judge the quality of the squad.

Personally I think the squad is much better than performances suggest, certainly good enough to have a tilt at top four, even if it's a clear step below City, Arsenal and Liverpool.
 
This question always comes up whenever we change the manager - I think the squad has already shown that they are better than the poor results that lead to Ten Hag's sacking, Ruud hasn't even changed much at all

It's a Top 6 squad in my opinion, seriously lacking upfront though which is the main barrier to Top4
 
We have no solid pros. The likes of Villa on paper dont have the great players like Man City, Arsenal etc but they have a majority of players getting a solid 6/7 out of 10 week in, week out. Year in year out. We have players that can be 8/9 out if 10 to 4/5 out if 10. And I'm talking over a long period of time. Its no good being 7/8 out of 10 one season then get sht the next like Rashford and Casemiro. Even the likes of Casemiro, Rashord, Bruno, Dalot, Eriksen, Martinez etc who should be solid performers are not. Mazraoui and Onana is our solid performers this season but we just dont know yet of they can carry that for the rest of the season and next season and the next. And that includes injuries. No good being a solid performer if you are never fit.

So the job of Amorim is to get 6/7 out of 10 performances week in week out for the majority of players. If he can do that then that should get us 5th/6th ish. If we want to push for 4th then he needs a couple of attacking players to average 7/8 out of 10. That's a tough job but it not impossible.

Once we have consolidated getting to Villa/Tottenham level and getting players performing to a 6 out of 10 and a couple at 7/8 out of 10 then we should get 4th. The next step is to compete with the big boys they are getting players to average 7/8/9 out of 10 week in week out, year in year out. So what are the level of our players?

De Ligt, Mazroui, Dalot, Bruno, Martinez, Onana. These should not be questioned if they can average a 6 out of 10 week in week out. But can they step up top the 7/8 out of 10 bracket week in week out. Year in year out?

Then we have another group - Rashford, Casemiro, Shaw, Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen etc - these should be good enough for 6 out of 10 performances. The likes of Rashford and Shaw and Case and even Eriksen can get to 7/8 but are they done? Can they get to that high consistent level and maintain it again?

Then we have the kids - Garnacho, Mainoo, Amad, Hojlund, Zirkzee etc - What is their level and at what point can they stabilize in performance like Saka who just performs. This we just dont know.

Thats a lot of questions without answers. We probably have a squad able to compete for 5th/6th. To get 4th we need players to step up consistently especially the attackers. To get 3rd and up we need new players. Especially attackers
 
ifightdragons said:
Spot on.

Can't say I share the Wan-Bissaka opinion, but all the rest.
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Dalot has been a liability all season while Bissaka for all the stick he got on here was at least a solid player.

And more to the point, we have 2 fit fullbacks in our squad and no one else who is even close to suited to fill in there, and CHOSE to sell a fullback in full knowledge of this.

What was the plan when Dalot or Mazrouri get injured or can't start 60+ games a season each?

Basically screwed up our season before it started for the sake of getting a small fee, which we've then had to spend more than getting new manager anyway
 
If we look for objectively, not how they’ve done for United but more so before United and internationally:

Onana - CL Final
De Ligt - Juve, Bayern and Dutch international
Martinez - Argentina international
Yoro - big prospect
Maguire - England international

Shaw - injury prone but England international
Dalot - great for Portugal
Mazraoui- Ex Bayern and International

Mainoo - England starter
Bruno - Portugals best player arguably
Ugarte - Uruguay international
Casemiro - Multiple CL winner and Brazil international
Eriksen - Danish international

Rashford - okay dropped for England
Garnacho - young, but coming into Argentina
Hoijlund - starts for Denmark
Zirkzee - Dutch squad player, serie A young player of the year
Amad - young and promising

That tells me that outside United the defence and midfield is not average. The forwards are concerning but it’s very, very young.

There’s also Mount, Antony, Evans , Malacia, Lindelof and others I may have missed.

We’re not far away.
 
Anywhere between between 5th and 7th best. Chelsea is better than ours but still a bit unbalanced

Spurs' also might be better but I am not sure. I would certainly take their attack over ours

We could have finished above those two this season with the right coaching though if we made the change in the summer
 
Defence is above average and that's only because of this past summer. We are below average in every other department (GK, Midfield, Attack).
 
No. Our squad is very good and capable (with one or two new players) challenging for title. And i am serious.

Class manager (and we all hope that Amorim is the guy), one top creative midfielder and top class striker will make us title challenger next year.
 
It's not an average first XI but I don't think we've got enough squad depth in quality. The FA cup tournament last year demonstrated we're not average, however performances have been below average. That's a combination of a wavering mentality and something fundamentally wrong between certain players and Ten Hag. We seem to say this every time but the players have no more excuses with the new manager and new structure. I'll rely on Amorim, Ashworth and Jason Wilcox's view of the squad, who the bad apples are and we'll see the result of that over the next coming windows.
 
Put simply, yes it is.

We have some good players who are underperforming. We have some very poor players, and we have an abundance of very average players who seem to have a weak mindset too mostly.

I don't think we have any top class players at all, but we have a couple who could potentially reach that level with good coaching.

We don't have any world class players, or potentially world class players in our squad.

I would say that our squad, based on talent, should be between 6th and 5th in the country with quality coaching. There are far too many average players to simply move them on, so it'll be a very slow process to improve enough.
 
KD6-3.7 said:
Honestly our squad is a bit rubbish. We’ve got some decent players in defence and a few other areas however our attack is bottom 10 levels. Still the big problem is that the squad still seem like strangers who have never played together.
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KD6-3.7 said:
It’ll explain why we’re second in the table of EPL sides who’ve scored the least number of goals so far this season.
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The best way of assessing it is to compare to other squads.

I'd struggle to think of a top half team with a front four as weak as ours. Garnacho and Hojlund would be bench options in many other teams. Most squads would not be reliant on a 21 year old to lead their line.

It's the same with our midfield, older experienced options well into decline like Casemiro/Eriksen should be options not starters. Mainoo is at the other end of the scale - he was playing almost every game by the end of last season. That's ludicrous for a team with a (supposed) stature of ours.
 
On the whole, no, the squad isn't average, it's just under performed under ETH. It needs better direction.

The defence is actually pretty solid, De Ligt, Martinez, Maz, Dalot and Yoro is a great selection. I actually don't think Maguire is a bad bench option along with Evans.

Mainoo and Ugarte will be the future, but we do need a few more decent midfielders, as Casemiro and Erikson are the wrong side of peak now. Bruno can be hit and miss.

For me the biggest problem is the attack and wingers. I still say that Rashord and Garnacho are too inconsistent to be world beaters. Amad needs to push on more now but I'm not convinced by Hoijlund or Zirkzee. Neither of those two excite me. Again, I know it's early days for them both but sometimes you just get that feeling in the pit of your stomach that certain players just aren't going to set the world alight and I get it with those two.

United needed a proven goal scorer or point man in the transfer window.

So not average for me, good in places but holes in a few others.
 
Andy_Cole said:
If we look for objectively, not how they’ve done for United but more so before United and internationally:

Onana - CL Final
De Ligt - Juve, Bayern and Dutch international
Martinez - Argentina international
Yoro - big prospect
Maguire - England international

Shaw - injury prone but England international
Dalot - great for Portugal
Mazraoui- Ex Bayern and International

Mainoo - England starter
Bruno - Portugals best player arguably
Ugarte - Uruguay international
Casemiro - Multiple CL winner and Brazil international
Eriksen - Danish international

Rashford - okay dropped for England
Garnacho - young, but coming into Argentina
Hoijlund - starts for Denmark
Zirkzee - Dutch squad player, serie A young player of the year
Amad - young and promising

That tells me that outside United the defence and midfield is not average. The forwards are concerning but it’s very, very young.

There’s also Mount, Antony, Evans , Malacia, Lindelof and others I may have missed.

We’re not far away.
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We’re miles away, we have 6 striking options that go from 1 PL goal in 5 Matches played to 1 in 10 with Rashford, Bruno and Zirkzee.

For a club like United this is beyond embarrassing when you’ve just spent £85m on Antony, £64m on Rasmus and £34m on Zirkzee that’s £185m in 2 seasons for three players who are aged 22-23 and had no PL experience between the three of them for a combined 2 PL goals this season in 18 PL matches that’s 1 in 9, Amad is a great talent but again just like Garnaucho unproven in Pl Garnaucho got 7 PL goals from 36 matches last year and 2 from 10 this year that’s 9 in 46 of just over 5 matches to score 1 Goal.

Our current selection of 6 attacking options are barely championship level ok current form! We need 2/3 out and 2/3 in like Gyokeres and Brian Mbeumo this winter just to salvage the season.
 
We're an above average PL team and an average top third team. At least we are in terms of individual players. In terms of how we look as a unit, the league table doesn't lie.

In terms of how much players develop after they enter the first team for that last few years, they haven't. A number of players brought in have got worse. That's partly down to our choices in the transfer market but it's also down to the lack of a coherent team structure.

Most annoying, we've asked young players like Mainoo to do impossible jobs and then pretended to be surprised that they can't.

It's not an easy team to play for or an easy club to manage. The pressures on the players and the coaching staff can be overwhelming. That doesn't mean they've become average, it means that they're human. I'm an optimist though - I think if Amorim and his team know what they want, they'll find a lot of players willing to deliver.
 
In the attacking third is probably worse than average
 
Woziak said:
We’re miles away, we have 6 striking options that go from 1 PL goal in 5 Matches played to 1 in 10 with Rashford, Bruno and Zirkzee.

For a club like United this is beyond embarrassing when you’ve just spent £85m on Antony, £64m on Rasmus and £34m on Zirkzee that’s £185m in 2 seasons for three players who are aged 22-23 and had no PL experience between the three of them for a combined 2 PL goals this season in 18 PL matches that’s 1 in 9, Amad is a great talent but again just like Garnaucho unproven in Pl Garnaucho got 7 PL goals from 36 matches last year and 2 from 10 this year that’s 9 in 46 of just over 5 matches to score 1 Goal.

Our current selection of 6 attacking options are barely championship level ok current form! We need 2/3 out and 2/3 in like Gyokeres and Brian Mbeumo this winter just to salvage the season.
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Our attack isn't great but one signing can sort this.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
No. Our squad is very good and capable (with one or two new players) challenging for title. And i am serious.

Class manager (and we all hope that Amorim is the guy), one top creative midfielder and top class striker will make us title challenger next year.
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I think you are right. The players are not as bad as people make them out to be. The problem is, our managers keep selecting players to play on the counter.

which means, playing out the back it doesn't work, as players are not good enough to hold the ball. I.e when we playing out the back and play it down the line, neither Rashford or Garnacho can recieve the ball and keep it, whereas Amad and Antony can.

Amorin has to work on this and get the right players playing in the system he wants.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Our attack isn't great but one signing can sort this.
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We need two not one, and both need to be starting players since Amorim likes to play 3421, Assume that Bruno will take one of those inside 10/hybrid strikers than you need a left footed player on the right side, he currently uses Trincao as the right number 10. and Gyokeres as his number 9 spearhead.

He won’t get both so maybe Gyokeres and Brian Mbeumo would be as perfect as it gets to give Amorim what he needs to implement his 3421, he’ll need a offensive left wing back like Alt Nouri from Wolves and then if he adds these three players, United will improve and only then will we improve, those three is the bare minimum?

I’d argue we need a proper 24-26 year old elite CM and another young Fast, Physical CB to actually improve the squad to a genuine top 4 Squad level.
 
romufc said:
I think you are right. The players are not as bad as people make them out to be. The problem is, our managers keep selecting players to play on the counter.

which means, playing out the back it doesn't work, as players are not good enough to hold the ball. I.e when we playing out the back and play it down the line, neither Rashford or Garnacho can recieve the ball and keep it, whereas Amad and Antony can.

Amorin has to work on this and get the right players playing in the system he wants.
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Fans are going to get used to his name and the correct spelling ‘Ruben Amorim’

There’s going to be lots of stupid silly comments like Our Rubes a moron/Morin and many vile others not worthy of print but guys let’s get the spelling of his name correct going forward.
 
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