Is our squad average?

As others have said, defence is good apart from left back, midfield is average with the potential of Mainoo and attack is poor (but with potential to improve).
Gyokeres and a top class wing forward are definitely required.
 
I think overall it is bang average. Its the qualities of the coaching team that will decide if we finish upper or lower mid table.
For those who think we have a squad capable of top four, I admire your optimism and hope you're right.
We're even further off being at the top table in Europe.
 
The prolonged damage is huge. That’s the reason this thread started.
A capable coach can make it work. We still have time to catch up.
 
It's a top 6 squad. Recruitment has been very hard for us, very few are top 4 level players.
 
The problem is that we spent tons of money, yet we're still debating if the squad is just average.
And some the players with the highest potential weren’t even part of these purchases.

With Amorim, this has to change.
 
A top 6 squad that could be top 4 if players that have shown it in the past, namely Bruno and Rashford, could get their act together. Our poor recruitment has resulted in us relying on those two far too much though, so it's not just their fault.
 
We're lacking massively up top. Even in spite of that, we are underachieving and should be in the same ballpark as Spurs, Villa, Chelsea, Newcastle etc.
 
It looks pretty average at the moment but that's also with the context of low confidence, allowing the rot of a really bad manager to set in and a lot of injuries in the team. I would still expect far more than what has been produced in the last 18 months.

The bigger issue is the balance of the squad left behind. We're light at left back and in midfield. Recruitment has also been really poor in attack since Ten Hag arrived and largely owes to the goalscoring problems we have now. Almost £200m was spent on Antony, Mount and Zirkzee. Hojlund is the only forward player signed under Ten Hag who was an improvement on what we had before, and even he was signed as a project.
 
We're really banking on some of the younger players developing into top class players and they still might. At the moment though, there's a real lack of quality in midfield and particularly up front.
 
Below average. Hojlund will not make the Nottingham Forest first team let alone any top 6 side.
 
Our squad is filled with some very interesting talents but that’s about it?

In years gone the likes of Garnacho, Hojlund, Martinez, amad, zirkzee, Ugarte would be players you would intergrate into an already strong spine and they could develop, we now have the developmental level players as our first 11.

It means there is a hell of a lot more pressure on the coaches to get a tune out of them because left to their own devices it’s a lot of pressure with no guiding hands.

We have some experienced hands in the likes of Eriksen Casemiro Bruno, even mount honestly with his time in the league , but they haven’t been around a culture of success here to then mould the new players in. It feels more akin to what Chelsea are doing than a city/liverpool/arsenal where they have a spine to the squad they are looking to improve.

We haven’t found our spine yet and it’s been 3 years since the last rebuild
 
If we learned anything today it was that the players didn’t down tools under Erik, they’re really just awfully average.
 
Yes it is very average, I don’t think there is anyone that gets in the City, Arsenal or Liverpool team or is even in top three in their position in the league.

We desperately need some good signings, more players from the academy to emerge and big improvement some of Yoro, Mainoo, Garnacho, Zirkzee, Amad and Hojlund.

We have three players who are essentially never fit (Shaw, Malacia and Mount). Evans, Maguire, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony and Lindelof who will all be gone at some point in next 18 months. What you are left with is players like Martinez, De Ligt, Bruno, Rashford etc who could maybe play at a title challenging level for a season if all the stars aligned but in reality are going to help you finish 4th-8th.
 
daba said:
If we learned anything today it was that the players didn’t down tools under Erik, they’re really just awfully average.
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It's one thing they never did under Erik, couldn't say the same towards the end of Ole's time or with Jose in his last few months as United manager.
 
I’d rank us 10th which is probably where we’ll finish.
 
This seems to be the new agenda in every media outlet today. I still believe we have some great talent in our squad just the coaches and managers unable to unlock that talent. We have seen this on occasions just not enough.
 
We took a punt on youngish players with potential when the demands were more urgent. A lot of us were supportive of this strategy solely because none of our big money signings worked. Now we’re in a position where we have Garnacho, Rashford and Hojlund as our starting attackers. In an ideal world, their current level is to be an impact sub at max and that too is highly unlikely for Rashford.

Our best hope is for Amorim to find tactics that make our defence robust and capable to grind out clean sheets. It’s unlikely that this attack can become prolific.
 
Everyone wonders if it's players or coaches. It's actually the rotten culture that starts at the top with the Glazer and embodied by certain players.

That rotten culture is what we have to quickly remove from our team if we ever want to be a great team again. No one talks enough about how SAF did that for us by clearing out all the poor cultural fits and look the dominance he was then able to create. The job is no different this time, our culture sucks and a manager needs to change it. Regardless of how "talented" your squad is if you have a clown like Rashford not pressing and ruining your entire tactics doesn't matter how talented you squad is.

Rashford, Shaw, Maguire are part of our squad that embodies this culture. Ask yourself why multiple managers Ralf/Jose have had issues with the lazyness of Rashford, Shaw. There's a clear difference when you watch players who actually care. We need to replace these diva players who honestly won't make it on a top 5 EPL team and replace them with more physical and young players in the mold of Bruno, Martinez that a manager can mold into a winning culture.
 
Footyislife said:
Everyone wonders if it's players or coaches. It's actually the rotten culture that starts at the top with the Glazer and embodied by certain players.

That rotten culture is what we have to quickly remove from our team if we ever want to be a great team again. No one talks enough about how SAF did that for us by clearing out all the poor cultural fits and look the dominance he was then able to create. The job is no different this time, our culture sucks and a manager needs to change it. Regardless of how "talented" your squad is if you have a clown like Rashford not pressing and ruining your entire tactics doesn't matter how talented you squad is.

Rashford, Shaw, Maguire are part of our squad that embodies this culture. Ask yourself why multiple managers Ralf/Jose have had issues with the lazyness of Rashford, Shaw. There's a clear difference when you watch players who actually care. We need to replace these diva players who honestly won't make it on a top 5 EPL team and replace them with more physical and young players in the mold of Bruno, Martinez that a manager can mold into a winning culture.
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This is got to be joke right , If United has actually any intention of going back to top we would be well advised to avoid such Limited players in future and start phasing out these two as well .
 
gajender said:
This is got to be joke right , If United has actually any intention of going back to top we would be well advised to avoid such Limited players in future and start phasing out these two as well .
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I like the spirit. If you think there's a better level let's go for it.
 
It should be comfortably 4th. We've just become so used to crap managers, and a few problematic lazy players in the team sabotaging us, that we label the entire squad as being shit, when it's not
 
Yes.

Onana is fine. We have some very good defenders who are often hung out to dry as a result of our shape and goal scoring concerns, although left back is a concern.

Mainoo is great and Ugarte needs time, but our deeper midfield options are a mess. Bruno and Mount are both good players, albeit the latter is seldom fit.

Our attacking options are genuinely abysmal. I like Hojlund and Garnacho; they have the right mindset for this club and should come good. The rest of them are a waste of space.

Oddly enough, I do actually think the floor of the squad has been raised through our recruitment in the summer. What we lack is genuinely brilliant players who can put up the numbers.
 
Some players are average but the squad is certainly good enough to be 4th at least. And even top managers can get the best out of average players.
 
The truth about Hojilund is that we don’t know.

Unfair to say he’s not good enough. He did brilliant for the penalty yesterday. He scored 7 games in a row last year and bagged 5 goals in the champions league despite us being rubbish and getting knocked out early.

As Lampard said yesterday he’s feeding on absolute scraps. No service whatsoever.

Gernacho was rubbish yesterday but I still think he could be one of the best in years to come. We need a coach (Amorin) to sort this.
 
Backline, if everyone is fit, is good enough as other title contenders (Shaw, Mauzi, Dalot, Yoro, De Ligt, Martinez, Onana)

For our midfield, we either have pass-it good midfielders (Eriksen/Case), a two-edge sword on decline (Bruno), or prospects (Mainoo/Ugarte). No world class players in their prime. so No.

Attacking wise, our attacking line was as good as early 2010s Aston Villa one. A mid-table quality attacking line probably the 10th-12th best in the league.

We are in desperate need to buy a world class CF (sell Zirksee, demote Hojlund to bench), a world class CAM and a world class winger in their prime years
 
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I am more worried about the fundamentals of professional top level rather than actual quality, there are issues on fundamental level that this squad suffers from, during the match, there are issues such as work rate, discipline, focus, determination, etc...

Ten Hag's main issue was he could not get them to be better on those basic stuff consistently, and his tactics and in-game management were terrible as well.

What I want to see from Amorim is to get these players to perform better and give it all, when that happens, then we will be able to determine the quality of the team, the technical level and tactical adaptability.

Look at Arsenal for example, what they lack could be quality in certain areas such as striker, LW, or LB, but what they do not lack is the fundamentals, as in they work hard, they are focused and disciplined, and so on, they get results on the board, if they fix some positions, they may mount a proper league challenge, compared to us, we do not even know if our squad can get us top 4, some good players but they never played well as a team consistently.
 
OmarUnited4ever said:
I am more worried about the fundamentals of professional top level rather than actual quality, there are issues on fundamental level that this squad suffers from, during the match, there are issues such as work rate, discipline, focus, determination, etc...

Ten Hag's main issue was he could not get them to be better on those basic stuff consistently, and his tactics and in-game management were terrible as well.
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Did you watch the game yesterday? If anything, we worked our socks off.

Seems like we more than anything lack technical quality on the ball. Our passing is not good.
 
The squad is average but not any worse than the other top 4-6 position contenders/pretenders.

However, I hope this time our fans allow the manager to earn his bacon before deciding that we need to spend gbp 500m before we can judge them. Any new manager should be able to implement his style of play without needing a completely new XI. With time we can add to positions they desire to get us back to challenging again.

Managers like Ole or ETH will finish in the bottom half if they had SAF's last squad at their disposal. A manager makes a huge difference in getting a tune of the players and getting them to run through brick wall for him. Their squad management, in-game management, ability to rotate are also equally important.

Also, sometimes one or two signings can be transformational and raise the whole level of the team. I think this squad will look much better and the team will play much much better & get more consistent results if we can add a passer from the midfield and a striker with good hold-up/link up and goal scoring ability.
 
Steve 007 said:
The truth about Hojilund is that we don’t know.

Unfair to say he’s not good enough. He did brilliant for the penalty yesterday.
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That is a wild take.

His first touch was actually really bad. Watch it back, and you'll see how he fails to control that ball, as it slips beyond him. He then has to chase the ball to the back post. Then he gets lucky that Sanchez dives into him.

A good first touch in that situation would have set him up for an early shot.
 
Is it even average? Difficult to tell as it is a mixed and unbalanced bunch of players.
GK: Still not sure Onana got the needed quality although he settled a bit so there is hope.
CBs: Overall decent but are they good enough to be part of a top top team? And don't come up with 18 yo boy Leny Yoro being our savior. No chance we can play 3 CBs to a great level with the available players.
FBs: Awful. Mazraoui was good yesterday but going forward I am not sure. Dalot could be a decent WB but is so inconsistent. Also, we need a reliable left-footed LB/WB.
Midfield: Not good enough. Mainoo has some talent but like always we completely overhyped him. Casemiro can still be decent but he is not the future. Ugarte does not look impressive so far. Eriksen is the only one who provides some structure and organization but he is on his last legs. Bruno has been awful and probably doesn't fit what Amorim wants. Mount is a decent footballer but seems like a big waste of money so far.
Attackers: All around not good enough. I always liked Rashford but he is far from a quality player you build your team around. Garnacho is our biggest hope and while he is too selfish he deserves the most patience from us. Amad could be a decent option, no idea why he went out of the team again. Antony is a sad one. Hojlund does not look up to it (and I watched him when he played for Sturm Graz where he looked the same, good goal scorer but the PL is probably too much for him), Zirkzee has some good attributes but looks too weak/slow.

If Amorim is lucky and some of the few players who actually could have enough quality like Shaw and Mount can stay fit we still need easily 6 new players. We should use the winter transfer window to get at least 2 in so that with a decent window summer 2025 Amorim got a squad giving him a chance to looke for top 4/5.
 
But what about that thread - Foundations for future or something, after we beat the mighty Barnsley and had that amazing 45 mins. Eric didn’t only un-coach our players but few of the players he bought set us back couple of years while wasting 300-400 million on them.
 
Insanity said:
The squad is average but not any worse than the other top 4-6 position contenders/pretenders.
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Are you serious? At the moment Chelsea, Arsenal and Villa are these. Not sure about Villa, but Arsenal and Chelsea have definitely lot better squads. Especially Chelsea, they have an absolutely talented and very young squad (well, age is kinda disadvantage for now as some of them need more experience), they have Madueke, Palmer and so on. Next year they will be title contenders for sure. But even Villa, they have lot better attackers, scored 17 goals already while we scored a shameful 9... But i think even Tottenham's squad is better. I think we're about 7-8th at the moment.
 
Plant0x84 said:
Did you miss the 2 cup wins in the previous 2 seasons?

Our players are better than most, but not good enough for a tilt at the title. It’s that simple.
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LC win in 2023 was our first trophy in six years, and itself after the Europa League. Six years.

Last year's cup final win was an upset. Let's face it. I was delighted we won, absolutely, but was under no illusion to its importance.

ten Hag being sacked in October confirmed my scepticism regarding what progress it proved.

Paper over serious cracks.

sugar_kane said:
The mentality across about half of the squad is beyond pathetic.
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Absolutely correct. 'Pathetic' is apt.

Glad to see it being factored.
 
Our biggest concern is that we don't score goals and our strikers are average at the very best. Except for one season with City, there aren't many league winners without a top quality striker, or wide forward that scores goals. How we have not adressed this is beyond me.
 
At the moment I’d say yes, we are looking average with the exception of some of the defenders. The real work needs to be focused on developing our strikers, fortunately Hojlund and Zirkee are still relatively young and their performances can be improved on with the right mentality and coaching staff.
 
Honestly our squad is a bit rubbish. We’ve got some decent players in defence and a few other areas however our attack is bottom 10 levels. Still the big problem is that the squad still seem like strangers who have never played together.
 
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