Is our plan just to throw money at everything?

devilish said:
We spent 57m euros in 2011-2012 and 76m euros in 2012-2013.
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I'm not against spending. What I hate is that the club seems to think spending an insane amount will solve all our problems. Not all transfers work out. Look at Spurs and their shiny new squad.

In 2007 we bought Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. Of the 3 only Nani made a significant contribution over a sustained period. In 2008 we bought Berbatov. But he disappointed in many key games because he wasn't a right fit. 2009 Owen, Valencia, Obertan. Only Valencia contributed to our success. 2010 Chicharito really good signing. 2011 Young, Jones, De Gea. The latter 2 were good/great signings. Young was an unnecessary waste of money who added no value to our squad. 2012 RVP, Kagawa, Zaha, Powell. RVP won the title. Kagawa doesn't quite fit in with our "traditional wingplay". The latter 2 haven't been given a proper chance yet. 2013 Fellaini, Mata. Fellaini probably our worst signing ever. Mata see Kagawa

If you look at that record you'll realise that bringing in 6 £30million+ signings is not going to make us great again. The transfer market is hit and miss.
 
mic.m said:
I'm not against spending. What I hate is that the club seems to think spending an insane amount will solve all our problems. Not all transfers work out. Look at Spurs and their shiny new squad.

In 2007 we bought Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. Of the 3 only Nani made a significant contribution over a sustained period. In 2008 we bought Berbatov. But he disappointed in many key games because he wasn't a right fit. 2009 Owen, Valencia, Obertan. Only Valencia contributed to our success. 2010 Chicharito really good signing. 2011 Young, Jones, De Gea. The latter 2 were good/great signings. Young was an unnecessary waste of money who added no value to our squad. 2012 RVP, Kagawa, Zaha, Powell. RVP won the title. Kagawa doesn't quite fit in with our "traditional wingplay". The latter 2 haven't been given a proper chance yet. 2013 Fellaini, Mata. Fellaini probably our worst signing ever. Mata see Kagawa

If you look at that record you'll realise that bringing in 6 £30million+ signings is not going to make us great again. The transfer market is hit and miss.
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The thing is, nobody from the club has actually said that we will be spending a ridiculous amount of money. What is sure is that we won't address our problems in the squad without recruiting.

Let me assure you, this place will be absolutely jumping when we start bringing in players. Its full of transfer muppets. The day that Mata signed it was like we'd just won the Champions League.
 
As long as we buy the right players who cares? Big names effect the psyche of current players and it raises their games. We've backed ourselves into a corner somewhat with this talk. Some smaller names is fine if they end up being the 'gems' like a Solskjaer/Cantona or an Irwin. We also have to promote the right players and I think we will.

We are in this position because we lost the mentality to bring in better players then we had to improve the first team. We would rather keep Scholes until he's 38 and Giggs until he's 40 rather then Pogba because we lost the willingness to take a risk.

When you buy multiple players, we know it's usually some will float and some will sink. That's the risk. That's why after all this time, we have to trust the clubs scouts have done a good job and the club can do their job. Ironically enough Pogba aside, we're in this position because we didn't spend and lost the desire to improve
 
mic.m said:
I'm concerned with fees being mentioned with regards to our transfer targets. Cavalho £35m, Shaw £30m, Kroos £40m + £260k/week. Our kitty is said to be anything between £150-200m

I know our squad needs significant additions. However we have gone from Fergie's no value in the market, feck agent fees extreme to the other extreme of sugar daddy, government subsidised spend whatever it takes extreme. In the past before the debt the strategy was 1-2 significant buys to complement young players and home grown products. I'm nervous about our summer spending.

If some of these signings flop we can't afford to discard like Real, City and Chelsea do. We can't afford to splurge every summer. Another issue is our manager. Will he be here next season? How will his team play? Then there is the issue of Lingard, Powell and other youngsters who need to be given a fair shot just like Welbeck, Cleverly, Januzaj, Jones have.
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We have no alternative given we cant convince players to join us without champions league football without throwing them a financial goldmine
 
mic.m said:
I'm not against spending. What I hate is that the club seems to think spending an insane amount will solve all our problems. Not all transfers work out. Look at Spurs and their shiny new squad.

In 2007 we bought Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. Of the 3 only Nani made a significant contribution over a sustained period. In 2008 we bought Berbatov. But he disappointed in many key games because he wasn't a right fit. 2009 Owen, Valencia, Obertan. Only Valencia contributed to our success. 2010 Chicharito really good signing. 2011 Young, Jones, De Gea. The latter 2 were good/great signings. Young was an unnecessary waste of money who added no value to our squad. 2012 RVP, Kagawa, Zaha, Powell. RVP won the title. Kagawa doesn't quite fit in with our "traditional wingplay". The latter 2 haven't been given a proper chance yet. 2013 Fellaini, Mata. Fellaini probably our worst signing ever. Mata see Kagawa

If you look at that record you'll realise that bringing in 6 £30million+ signings is not going to make us great again. The transfer market is hit and miss.
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I understand your point but what can we do? The current side is clearly not good enough especially since a substantial number of players are leaving/retiring. Our best youths has fecked off to Fiorentina and Juventus and nowadays everyone has a well developed scouting system which makes it very difficult to pick bargains. There's little we can do but spend.

What we need is 4-5 quality signings to fit everything in place. For example if we get two quality defensive minded players (we're not talking about the Tiote type of player in here) we would be able to play with 4 out of a list made of Rooney, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa and RVP without upsetting the system so much.
 
I like this plan. Throw more money at it.
 
This squad needs an overhaul - there is no getting away from it. We might lose three players that made up the backbone of IMO what was recently the best defence in Europe. We haven't replaced Scholes yet, and Carrick is a shadow of his former self without him. Ronaldo wasn't replaced sufficiently.

It was never going to be cheap whoever our manager was.
 
We don't need to buy all Quality proven world class player.

Players like Demba Ba, Cabaye, Jagielka, (not what we need, but they're consistently on the 6-7.5 performance scale) and almost 75% of the midtable consistent performers worth a look at.

I don't know the names, but 10-15M bracket players can be the players we need if we added 1 quality signing to it, call it the workhorse. It could simply be for rotational purpose and the tight games where we just need bodies to defence.

Buy smart Moyes is not
 
The title of this thread assumes United have a plan. Everything we have done since Fergie left makes me question that idea. I see no vision, no plan, no identity. Just Garry Cook style wand measuring, chasing targets to 'make a statement'. :rolleyes:
 
#07 said:
The title of this thread assumes United have a plan. Everything we have done since Fergie left makes me question that idea. I see no vision, no plan, no identity. Just Garry Cook style wand measuring, chasing targets to 'make a statement'. :rolleyes:
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I do agree. I don't know what Moyes is actually doing, because none of his targets are really correlating. We don't whether he will even drop the two man strike force and play a 4231, or whether he'll start to play a 3 man midfield to get more numbers in the middle and offer more protection to back line whilst also dominating matches more. Kroos and Carvalho (the most linked) wouldn't work as a two man midfield if we're still playing two strikers. Especially if we've got Mata playing on the wing, too.
 
mic.m said:
I'm not against spending. What I hate is that the club seems to think spending an insane amount will solve all our problems. Not all transfers work out. Look at Spurs and their shiny new squad.
In 2007 we bought Nani, Hargreaves and Anderson. Of the 3 only Nani made a significant contribution over a sustained period. In 2008 we bought Berbatov. But he disappointed in many key games because he wasn't a right fit. 2009 Owen, Valencia, Obertan. Only Valencia contributed to our success. 2010 Chicharito really good signing. 2011 Young, Jones, De Gea. The latter 2 were good/great signings. Young was an unnecessary waste of money who added no value to our squad. 2012 RVP, Kagawa, Zaha, Powell. RVP won the title. Kagawa doesn't quite fit in with our "traditional wingplay". The latter 2 haven't been given a proper chance yet. 2013 Fellaini, Mata. Fellaini probably our worst signing ever. Mata see Kagawa
If you look at that record you'll realise that bringing in 6 £30million+ signings is not going to make us great again. The transfer market is hit and miss.
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Agree with all of that. Someone should do a Phd on it. The ratio of signings that truly work out at any club must be no better than one in three. Spurs would therefore be statistically doing well if even two of their summer madness signings prosper long term. It's just that they upped the ante and have come under media attention for Bale-related reasons. Levy won't buy the club so much as an ice cream cone this summer without test tube beforehand proof that it tastes bleeding great.
 
devilish said:
If we were spending ridiculous money for shit players then I wouldnt be worried. However the players that are mentioned are far from bad and will give us 10-15 years of top quality football.

I am not worried about the kids either. The squad needs rebuilding a kids will slot in to replace the dead wood irrespective on whether we sign those players or not
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Spot on. Its great to get young, home grown players in the side - but only if they're good enough.

Since the "golden generation" of Beckham and the rest there seems to be a myth that we have a mainly homegrown side with a few additions, when it simply isnt the case. We were fortunate to have such great players coming through and they formed the bedrock of the side. The players who have come through since then (with the exception of Januzaj) have been nowhere near good enough to be anything opther than squad players.

At the end of the day, top players costs top money. Some on here seem to believe everything they read in the press and think that United are going to go out and spend mega-money on players in every position which is clearly nonsense.

We have a good youth set up and no doubt the good work there will continue in the hope that more genuione first teamers come through. Likewise I'm sure we'll still be targetting younger players with a lot of potential. Neither of those will mean that we don't need real, proven quality to form the core of the side going forward and buying big name players won't mean those two ideas are abandoned.

For years fans have questioned why we weren't going for the big players - and now it looks like we might be doing that, people are compaining about it. I dont get it at all.
 
DWelbz19 said:
I do agree. I don't know what Moyes is actually doing, because none of his targets are really correlating. We don't whether he will even drop the two man strike force and play a 4231, or whether he'll start to play a 3 man midfield to get more numbers in the middle and offer more protection to back line whilst also dominating matches more. Kroos and Carvalho (the most linked) wouldn't work as a two man midfield if we're still playing two strikers. Especially if we've got Mata playing on the wing, too.
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This assumes that you know who the clubs targets actually are. What you're actually doing is reading the papers and believeing that every player we're linked to is a potential summer transfer. Why not wait until the summer to see what actually happens before making a judgment?
 
RedRover said:
This assumes that you know who the clubs targets actually are. What you're actually doing is reading the papers and believeing that every player we're linked to is a potential summer transfer. Why not wait until the summer to see what actually happens before making a judgment?
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Always an important point to make every transfer window and yet every summer many wade into the murky waters and swallow all the bait, hook, line and sinker.
 
RedRover said:
This assumes that you know who the clubs targets actually are. What you're actually doing is reading the papers and believeing that every player we're linked to is a potential summer transfer. Why not wait until the summer to see what actually happens before making a judgment?
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What are you talking about? I touched on two (Carvalho and Kroos). Moyes has been seen in Portugal watching Sporting so many times this season, and has been seen at a Bayern game and actually met with Kroos' agent. These aren't just names plucked out, Moyes has obviously deliberated over these two. Whether or not we do sign them remains to be seen, but what doesn't is the fact that he clearly sees them as targets, which links back to wondering what sort of formation or tactic he seeks to employ next season, because it is very hazy at the moment.
 
We should expect much more activity this summer in large part due to missing so many key targets last summer. Had we signed Baines and a CM like Fabregas/Thiago we'd be going into this summer looking to pick up a CB and wide forward but unfortunately that's not the case. There's also deadwood that's need to be moved on.
 
DWelbz19 said:
What are you talking about? I touched on two (Carvalho and Kroos). Moyes has been seen in Portugal watching Sporting so many times this season, and has been seen at a Bayern game and actually met with Kroos' agent. These aren't just names plucked out, Moyes has obviously deliberated over these two. Whether or not we do sign them remains to be seen, but what doesn't is the fact that he clearly sees them as targets, which links back to wondering what sort of formation or tactic he seeks to employ next season, because it is very hazy at the moment.
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What I'm talking aboitis you saying "X and Y wont work together" when there is no gurantee that either player is an actual target, other than speculation. Nobody from the club has confirmed it, Moyes has never commented on it in public so how do you know they are "clearly targets"?

One player has just broken though and is probably considers himself underpaid, the other is after a new contract. While I'm hapy to see us linked to quality players, this could all just be agenst trying to get their client's a better deal.

Just because Moyes may have been to watch one or the other or there has been rumours that we had scouts at games. They could be watching other players, or simply be there along with other scouts from other clubs, or not even there at all.

It seems you're criticisng the club and or the manager for a "scattergun" approach to transfers, which you dont think will work - based on nothing but rumours that these are the players that the club wants. I'd suggest its wiser to wait and see what happens before questioning the clubs approach and whether players can play together.
 
:lol:
So I can't make assessments on rumoured players and how they'd fit into our team? I must wait until they are either signed or words come directly from Moyes' mouth for me to criticise or evaluate how we'd line-up with them within the side? Odd school of thought.
 
#07 said:
This.

Moyes' strength was always his activity in the transfer market: his ability to find players like Arteta and Mirallas that had been overlooked by others. Where is the evidence of this now?

Despite taking our scouting system into the ICloud era we haven't been able to unearth any gems. All our targets are well known. We may as well have done our scouring on FIFA.
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Perhaps the unknown gems are unknown to the media also? Who we're linked with and who we're targeting often aren't the same thing.

Sky1981 said:
We don't need to buy all Quality proven world class player.

Players like Demba Ba, Cabaye, Jagielka, (not what we need, but they're consistently on the 6-7.5 performance scale) and almost 75% of the midtable consistent performers worth a look at.

I don't know the names, but 10-15M bracket players can be the players we need if we added 1 quality signing to it, call it the workhorse. It could simply be for rotational purpose and the tight games where we just need bodies to defence.

Buy smart Moyes is not
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:wenger:

Demba Ba isn't an example of buying smart seeing as he rarely plays and Mourinho can't wait to get rid of him.
 
The way Mata has been talking, seems we're definitely going to splash a feck load of cash this Summer. It will publicly look as if we've screwed Mata over after promising him these new signings in the Summer, and we end up trolling him by signing a mediocre player.

I think this will be an unique summer for us - I'm not saying we haven't showed the cash in the past, but I do think this will almost be a City/Chelsea-like summer for us this time round. Expect over £120m to be spent easily.
 
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