No lies told
Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?
- Thread starter GueRed
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No lies told
What a piece of crap.
The Portuguese tactician, however, was privy to different expectations during his time at Old Trafford. He was fired after two and a half seasons despite winning two trophies and also leading the club to the second place in the league.
Yeah, and then "the Portuguese tactician" crashed the team into the ground to a point where there was no other possibility than firing him. Perhaps that ought to be mentioned?
I mean, as much as I dislike him, it’s true.
All Mourinho cares about is his record and what the end of the season looks like. He forgets that people simply don’t want to watch the awful football he purposely provides week in week out, or put up with the constant misery he generates in the media.
It’s complete bullshit. The absolute minimum requirement for any new manager is progress. Doing better each year. When Mourinho managed that he kept his job. When the team subsequently regressed he was rightfully sacked. The exact same rules apply to Ole.
He lowered the expectations 
Jose is the clown who told you in his first season that 6th place and Europa League was success.
Jose is the clown who told you in his first season that 6th place and Europa League was success.
Half of Ole In think Ole is the first to ‘rebuild’ and therefore, by default, expectations are different.
The other half think there’s no difference at all and yet defend him after blanking another season on the trophy front.
At least I understand the logic of the first group. The second is ridiculous. Expectations were different from day 1.
Some people will eat any crap he tells them too. Would make a fantastic political leader.
Funny man, this Jose.
While actually saying, after finishing second:
He also failed to mention the stats of his last season with us ending in him being sacked while we were 6th in the league: WLLWWDLWDWWLDDDWL
7W, 5D and 5L in less than half a season. Not to mention losing to Derby in the League cup and to Valencia in the CL just before being sacked.
While actually saying, after finishing second:
He also failed to mention the stats of his last season with us ending in him being sacked while we were 6th in the league: WLLWWDLWDWWLDDDWL
7W, 5D and 5L in less than half a season. Not to mention losing to Derby in the League cup and to Valencia in the CL just before being sacked.
I see his post-summer meltdown and active sabotaging of the team in his final few matches has also been forgotten.
100% and I really hope your final sentence is true. I fear though if Ole wins nowt and finishes 4th next season he will still keep his job and excuses will be made for him because of who he is.
He needs to win a trophy or finish 1st. The latter being nigh on impossible.
Love or hate Jose, he did get to three finals and won two of them. So for me personally he is the best manager since SAF.
I love how he didn't correct James Corden in the interview when Corden was confirming if he finished 2nd and won EL in the same season.
The reason he was sacked was because the side he built was going nowhere - nearly every player was in their prime years and the side was nowhere close to winning it. Add to that, he had a meltdown starting from the Sevilla defeat and he actively tried to sabotage the team till the end of his reign by picking up fights, targeting past it players and doing nothing towards building a team in a sustainable manner.
The reason he was sacked was because the side he built was going nowhere - nearly every player was in their prime years and the side was nowhere close to winning it. Add to that, he had a meltdown starting from the Sevilla defeat and he actively tried to sabotage the team till the end of his reign by picking up fights, targeting past it players and doing nothing towards building a team in a sustainable manner.
Probably one for the expectations thread but I would see a better points haul, irrespective of league position, as progress. He also needs to get us out of the group stages of the CL. That’s a major blot on his copy book, as it stands. I’m not overly fussed about the FA or League Cup. They aren’t always won by the best team in them.
Until Ole or someone else managing United wins some more silverware, Jose will trot out his mantra of " two pieces of silverware and a second place finish, nobody has bettered that".
Its Jose doing his usual self aggrandizement performance, nothing to see here...move on!
Its Jose doing his usual self aggrandizement performance, nothing to see here...move on!
Excellent use of context.
Jose was fired because he lost the dressing room and was in a tailspin despite spending all his money on short-term buys yet trashing the squad in public. If he looked on course to finishing comfortably in the top 4 again he would probably have been given more time and certainly would not have been fired mid-season.
Please tell me you don't actually belive that
It's mad how many people seem to think Jose finished second and won two trophies in the same season, seems to get quoted on a regular basis.
His last full season (his best ever, as claimed by Jose himself) was second place with zero trophies and a final. No different from Ole's last one, the difference being that Ole has a squad in harmony and is building towards the future.
Jose wasn't sacked for finishing second, he was sacked mid way through the following season where we were performing terribly and he was pulling the roof in. It's astonishing how no-one calls him out on his bullshit.
His last full season (his best ever, as claimed by Jose himself) was second place with zero trophies and a final. No different from Ole's last one, the difference being that Ole has a squad in harmony and is building towards the future.
Jose wasn't sacked for finishing second, he was sacked mid way through the following season where we were performing terribly and he was pulling the roof in. It's astonishing how no-one calls him out on his bullshit.
No - the United teams performances under Ole have been comfortably better than any manager since SAF retired.
1 fluke trophy under José (which if you remember we lucked out in the semi’s and finals with tons of luck) does not exempt him of the the atrocious football he had our team playing. And I’m a José supporter. He extracts the best of out what he has with no regard for what anyone (including his players) thinks and hence why he says finishing 2nd with the squad we had was one of his biggest achievements. Because it was. We have to give credit where credit is due because he dragged points out of that team which had no business finishing top4 let alone runners up.
But again, no. He’s the 2nd best manager we’ve had since post Fergie.
...in a parallel universe far far away, United’s 20/21 Xl if Mourinho was still in charge:
De Gea
Darmian Alderweireld Skriniar Young
Matic Herrera
Fellaini
Bale Lukaku Alexis
1 fluke trophy under José (which if you remember we lucked out in the semi’s and finals with tons of luck) does not exempt him of the the atrocious football he had our team playing. And I’m a José supporter. He extracts the best of out what he has with no regard for what anyone (including his players) thinks and hence why he says finishing 2nd with the squad we had was one of his biggest achievements. Because it was. We have to give credit where credit is due because he dragged points out of that team which had no business finishing top4 let alone runners up.
But again, no. He’s the 2nd best manager we’ve had since post Fergie.
...in a parallel universe far far away, United’s 20/21 Xl if Mourinho was still in charge:
De Gea
Darmian Alderweireld Skriniar Young
Matic Herrera
Fellaini
Bale Lukaku Alexis
So, what exactly he said wrong there? This hate towards Jose became ridiculous
Because no one is lowering the expectation. People have criticized Ole and in fact if one follows social media they will know apart from his buddies Ole gets a lot of criticism and people do acknowledge he has to win trophies.
As for Jose wellnhe is just a bitter man who fails to realise that he was not sacked for not winning the title but because he left us in 6th position and creating a toxic atmosphere. Yes he won some trophies good job but let us stop pretending he was some kind of messiah.
Also let us not forget the way he openly praised himself for finishing 2nd and calling it his biggest achievement. Ole on the other hand did acknowledge the season as a failure. But of course Ole is lowering expectations but Jose was not.
We were winning 1 game off matching his total achievements with us in 1 season.
Just when we won the Europa he had us down in 6th!
Mourinho was a terrible manager with an overpriced squad. The attempts at revisionist history do not erase how shite he was. Unsurprisingly, a lot of the posters claiming he's the best manager since SAF were defending him up to the very end. We can go back and pull up the receipts.
With that team he won easily final against Ajax. He won League cup. He won super cup. He finished second.No - the United teams performances under Ole have been comfortably better than any manager since SAF retired.
1 fluke trophy under José (which if you remember we lucked out in the semi’s and finals with tons of luck) does not exempt him of the the atrocious football he had our team playing. And I’m a José supporter. He extracts the best of out what he has with no regard for what anyone (including his players) thinks and hence why he says finishing 2nd with the squad we had was one of his biggest achievements. Because it was. We have to give credit where credit is due because he dragged points out of that team which had no business finishing top4 let alone runners up.
But again, no. He’s the 2nd best manager we’ve had since post Fergie.
...in a parallel universe far far away, United’s 20/21 Xl if Mourinho was still in charge:
De Gea
Darmian Alderweireld Skriniar Young
Matic Herrera
Fellaini
Bale Lukaku Alexis
Ole won nothing. And on top of that, game vs Villareal showed that he is not good enough to win anything.
What? Not lowering standards? Ole is talking about bloody progress 2,5 years now. How we are getting there and shit like that. And now after he lost EL final, he said for first time that we need to win something.
Just read an article where he had some things to say about his new role. My word, this guy really can't see passed his own arse. In no way does he accept blame for any of the things that go wrong with his previous clubs, instead he says:
“I make mistakes sometimes, I haven’t always chosen the right project, or I may have been misled about the path of some projects," he added. "I’ve made mistakes or I’ve been led in a dishonest way into accepting what I shouldn’t have, but in the end it’s all the same."
I mean no where does he say its on me, I had a bad spell or something like that. Just the mistake he made was choosing a bad project The state of this guy!
“I make mistakes sometimes, I haven’t always chosen the right project, or I may have been misled about the path of some projects," he added. "I’ve made mistakes or I’ve been led in a dishonest way into accepting what I shouldn’t have, but in the end it’s all the same."
I mean no where does he say its on me, I had a bad spell or something like that. Just the mistake he made was choosing a bad project
The state of this guy!Ole after finishing 2nd and losing the final : This season is not a success
Jose after finishing 2nd and losing the final: finishing 2nd is my biggest achievement
I know which manager was lowering expectations.
Yeah, I don't see how anyone could argue with a straight face that Mourinho wasn't trying to lower expectations constantly throughout his time here.
Guy's also incapable of acknowledging his own faults - biggest reason his career has flown off the rails since 2015. The second results go against him, he tosses his players under the bus.
Guy's also incapable of acknowledging his own faults - biggest reason his career has flown off the rails since 2015. The second results go against him, he tosses his players under the bus.
Just read an article where he had some things to say about his new role. My word, this guy really can't see passed his own arse. In no way does he accept blame for any of the things that go wrong with his previous clubs, instead he says:
“I make mistakes sometimes, I haven’t always chosen the right project, or I may have been misled about the path of some projects," he added. "I’ve made mistakes or I’ve been led in a dishonest way into accepting what I shouldn’t have, but in the end it’s all the same."
I mean no where does he say its on me, I had a bad spell or something like that. Just the mistake he made was choosing a bad project
To be fair to him, and I don't really want to be fair to him, but there could be some truth in him being misled by Woodward and the Glazers.
The only thing Woodward did wrong with Mourinho was give him that new contract in '18 when it was already clear he was approaching the end of his shelf life at United - a year in advance compared to his usual routine at the time.
He was backed in the transfer window better than any of the managers before or after him, except that last one where he wanted to sign a whole bunch of pensioners and was rightly told to f*ck right off. Which, again, just leads you to ask why they gave him the contract that allowed him to sabotage the first half of that season and get another massive payoff when he was booted out.
He was backed in the transfer window better than any of the managers before or after him, except that last one where he wanted to sign a whole bunch of pensioners and was rightly told to f*ck right off. Which, again, just leads you to ask why they gave him the contract that allowed him to sabotage the first half of that season and get another massive payoff when he was booted out.
Is this really a debate?
I hated Jose in the later stages but we win trophies under him and had or highest point total finish.
Of course that is better than what Ole has done overall.
Under Ole we are more consistent.
Under Jose we had lower lows but higher highs.
I hated Jose in the later stages but we win trophies under him and had or highest point total finish.
Of course that is better than what Ole has done overall.
Under Ole we are more consistent.
Under Jose we had lower lows but higher highs.
He lowered the expectations
Jose is the clown who told you in his first season that 6th place and Europa League was success.
More successful than what we are now sadly
I think our current team is better, much better if we get Sancho.No - the United teams performances under Ole have been comfortably better than any manager since SAF retired.
1 fluke trophy under José (which if you remember we lucked out in the semi’s and finals with tons of luck) does not exempt him of the the atrocious football he had our team playing. And I’m a José supporter. He extracts the best of out what he has with no regard for what anyone (including his players) thinks and hence why he says finishing 2nd with the squad we had was one of his biggest achievements. Because it was. We have to give credit where credit is due because he dragged points out of that team which had no business finishing top4 let alone runners up.
But again, no. He’s the 2nd best manager we’ve had since post Fergie.
...in a parallel universe far far away, United’s 20/21 Xl if Mourinho was still in charge:
De Gea
Darmian Alderweireld Skriniar Young
Matic Herrera
Fellaini
Bale Lukaku Alexis
I’ve never felt less belief in us winning something than under Ole. Even under LVG’s boring approach, I still believed we can win stuff, albeit without being impressive.
It’s not an objective assessment or anything, just how I feel when I see our chaotic approach to the game right now, even when we’re winning.
It’s not an objective assessment or anything, just how I feel when I see our chaotic approach to the game right now, even when we’re winning.
First season: made us difficult to beat after 3 years of embarrassing home & away defeats. Only 5 league defeats and performed well in all cup competions (unlucky to go out of the FA Cup at Chelsea). Had big problems breaking down teams leading to a high number of draws. Same problem we had under LVG.
Second season: Was not backed in improving our attacking options that summer to remedy the issues with too many draws. Improved league form leading to our, still, highest points tally since SAF. General bad atompshere at the club in the second half of the season, with his own confrontational attitude not helping. Got it badly wrong against Sevilla but Jose is not the type to accept responsibility.
Third season: Had the rug well and truly pulled beneath his feet in the summer transfer window. Obviously unhappy and goaded the board into sacking him until they finally did
I had a feeling of safety knowing we had an actual winner as manager. Mourinho is not the type to accept 4th every year which is something that worries me with Ole. This is his dream job and I fear he won't rock the boat if needed. Our board are obviously satisfied with Top 4.
He will be proven right regarding Pogba, Martial and Rashford.
Second season: Was not backed in improving our attacking options that summer to remedy the issues with too many draws. Improved league form leading to our, still, highest points tally since SAF. General bad atompshere at the club in the second half of the season, with his own confrontational attitude not helping. Got it badly wrong against Sevilla but Jose is not the type to accept responsibility.
Third season: Had the rug well and truly pulled beneath his feet in the summer transfer window. Obviously unhappy and goaded the board into sacking him until they finally did
I had a feeling of safety knowing we had an actual winner as manager. Mourinho is not the type to accept 4th every year which is something that worries me with Ole. This is his dream job and I fear he won't rock the boat if needed. Our board are obviously satisfied with Top 4.
He will be proven right regarding Pogba, Martial and Rashford.
That he won two trophies and finished 2nd in the same season. I'm not sure why he's going around saying that when it isn't true. We finished 6th and won two trophies which was a good season. Following season we finished 2nd behind an incredible City side which was fair at least we finished higher in the league but we crashed out of the CL in the last 16 to Sevilla. Then we went backwards, Mourinho downed tools and we were in relegation form before he was sacked.
Jose lowered expectations more than Ole. Ole would never come out with 'football heritage'He lowered the expectations
Jose is the clown who told you in his first season that 6th place and Europa League was success.
And I backed and defended Mourinho but he totally lost me by the third season. I lost all my respect for him as it was obvious that he was trying to get sacked and didn't give two shits about the club. The signs were there earlier like when he turned up to the Munich memorial looking like a scruff while everybody else (even the players) were wearing suits but I ignored them as I really wanted him to succeed here.
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If he was so worried about Martial and Rashford, maybe he should have gotten more out of Sanchez and Mkhitaryan. Or figured out how to use Lukaku (25 league goals the season before joining United, 23 the season after leaving, 28 in two seasons here) before spending 75 million on him.
Oh well. At least Shaw is off the list of players #Mou was right about all along nowadays!
Oh well. At least Shaw is off the list of players #Mou was right about all along nowadays!
Jose being very "clever" in setting the scene of what hardships he faced battling the mighty Man City with our minnow of a club.
Like your hate towards Ole? Wonder who you'll be defending tomorrow. "Woody wasn't actually that bad....he got ole the signings he wanted"
Ah he lost me by nearing end of second season
The Sevilla stuff was horrible to watch then the way he treated players just to prove a point and prove he's right (eg giving a player a chance and it not working and then saying see, that's why...)
The fa cup final compounded it, was just pure cowardice.
But agree with what you're saying overall
Well this goes back to something I have written about previously: at Man Utd. when it is mathematically impossible to qualify for the following seasons' champions league you are sacked and the contract details mean with a 'moderate' payoff (what did Moyes get? 5 Million?).
But if you lose the dressing room and stink the place up to such an extent that you have to be fired whilst that target is still obtainable, ker-ching! You are laughing all the way to the bank.... Mourinho walked away with almost £20 million. Part of me secretly admires him for what he did, part of me thinks: disgraceful. Oh and a small (jealous) part of me thinks 'you lucky b*****d'.
I always questionned his long-term committment to Manchester Utd. when he didn't get a quiet mansion out in Cheshire, but stayed in a City Centre hotel. I know he said he couldn't cook, but on his salary - he could have employed a small staff - perhaps he just liked being in the limelight a bit too much, it wasn't so much about Utd. it was about HIM. Wasn't that what Bobby Charlton feared when Sir Alex planned to retire and they nearly got him then?
P.S. I can't ask stuff in the TV section yet as I'm quite new here, but last night on Paramount channel was a film called 'United' starring David Tennant, Sam Claflin and Dougray Scott about the Munich disaster, is it any good? (It started at 7.55pm so I was otherwise engaged!) but if people recommend it, I will find it.
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