Does it look likely that we'll move for him this summer?
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
- Thread starter Nickelodeon
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Before last week I'd have said yes, but its gone a bit quiet on anyone right now after the SL drama.
Boy oh boy do we need him though.
Boy oh boy do we need him though.
Ed's preening and vain posturing and reputation within the footballing world was very likely one of the major hindrances to the deal.
Him being 'gone' doesn't mean Dortmund will magically be more agreeable, but should they do a deal at 'a lower price' it is now at least possible for them to do so while saving face by dealing with 'a proper footballing person'.
Him being 'gone' doesn't mean Dortmund will magically be more agreeable, but should they do a deal at 'a lower price' it is now at least possible for them to do so while saving face by dealing with 'a proper footballing person'.
Should be the number one priority in my opinion. Our only creative players in the team are Bruno, Pogba & Shaw. We need to add another one.
Woodward hasn't gone.
He's still here and doesn't leave until later this year.
He'll still be charge during this summers's transfer window.
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OMG REALLY? Is that why 'gone' was in quotes in the post you quoted? Wait, could there be another reason? We need Sherlock on the case. Or that Poirot guy.
Sancho is not worth 100 million and we won't purchase him this summer, but when you look at the difficulties we have breaking down a defence, it makes you wonder.
He may not be worth it in general, but he is what we have needed for near a decade now? Doesn't that make him worth it for us?
£100mill isn't going to fix all our problems - whether that's one signing, or a handful of players that amount to that. But this would probably be our smartest signing to build on to address the glaring issue of creativity we have in the squad, not to mention remedying our decade long issue of our right sided attack.
Said it before and saying it again, he is more important a signing than any striker.
We won't be kicked out. And any fine that will be imposed on us will be imposed on Liverpool who might miss out on CL footy themselves. I don't see any major reprecussions that will impact the summer spending.
If we let a player who wanted to come to us last summer, go to Livepool and that too one really need, it would be completely down to our own stupidity.
Absolutely. His profile is perfect for us. RW, one of the biggest talents in the game, at Dortmund, wants to come to United and is English.
If we can afford him then yeah.
I've been all in on Sancho for a good few years now, probably since he joined Dortmund. He has to be our no.1 target still this summer, he's versatile in the positions he can play and instantly makes us a lot better. Put Sancho in the situation with James & Bruno instead of James and we wouldn't be talking about it the same way, Sancho would've took responsibility of possession and had a shot/created a goal scoring opportunity.
He remains the most obvious, likely and clear attacking signing we can make this summer.
7x of 0-0 draws this season. xG below Liverpool, Man City & Chelsea despite of being 2nd highest goal scoring team and only 5 goals behind Man City. I think it is very clear what cost us the league this season and what is our no 1 weakness. The creativity, because we only have Pogba & Bruno and if one is injured/rested, we struggle to score. If both somehow get injured then we are fecked.
7x of 0-0 draws this season. xG below Liverpool, Man City & Chelsea despite of being 2nd highest goal scoring team and only 5 goals behind Man City. I think it is very clear what cost us the league this season and what is our no 1 weakness. The creativity, because we only have Pogba & Bruno and if one is injured/rested, we struggle to score. If both somehow get injured then we are fecked.
Agree and I think we all know the 9 goals against a 10 man team has distorted the reality of our goalscoring this season. About 55 goals is about right and where we are in reality.
Dortmund looking likely to get UCL football now, so they'll be in a stronger position. Still I think we can get him for around 70-80 tops.
Exactly this. I used to think we didnt need another creative player, since we apparantly creates the 3rd most big chances in PL, but if either of those three gets injured or tired we're back to beiing clueless.
The fact nobody else is linked with him tells me he's United bound.
What i think different this time is Sancho will now push hard for the move himself and force BVB to sell. I can't see him wanting to stay another year there and play with any motivation anymore
Were some articles today about Liverpool going for him if they offload Salah, but a) its probably bad sources and b) cant see anyone going for Salah tbh, so yeah - think we are the only one for him.
We need to get him before Liverpool get an influx of cash from somewhere because I’m sure they would want to build their next attack around him if the money was right.
Rashford?
The same assists as Pogba and Shaw combined,
Has more key passes than Pogba on average,
To say we need more creativity is a myth, we need players who can give us a different dynamic to break down teams, someone who can take players on or cross a ball from the byline, get behind defensive shapes, that is different from creativity,
I don't think you get it, it's not just about assists. You need to consider decision making whether to shoot or to pass, build up the play, capability to find the right man and the quality of the pass/cross.
Rashford is a goal scorer. His first instinct is scoring goals and shooting not providing service to his no 9. Contrast to Sancho, Pogba, Bruno, & Shaw. It's not myth which is why we often drop our xG when one of Bruno or Pogba is dropped because our goalscorers don't get the services
It's also more about balance. Our best creators in the team mostly come from the left (Shaw, Pogba, Rashford) with no real outlet on the right. Greenwood has done it in spurts but we need someone who can do it week in, week out.
I wouldn't even call Bruno that much of a creative player.
I get it, I just think you are trying to say that Bruno, Pogba and Shaw are our only creative players, which I disagree with and majority of attacking stats back this up.
Rashford is a goalscorer, he is also a creater, hence the reason he is the second highest goal creater at united this season. He has been vital to the team for both goal scored and contributions leading to goals.
It's obvious our expected goals willl drop when our main creative outlets and best players are not playing - that proves their value to the team, but what it does not prove is that they are our only creative outlet. We have several creative players, who have contributed towards goals,
Sancho will definitely improve us as a team, I am merely making the point that it's not going to be the difference that we sorely need. If we get Sancho, its vitally important we either keep Cavani or get a number 9 moving forward, otherwise his talent will be largely underused.
The vast majority of our shots come from the middle of the park, with a fairly even split between left and right. Nearly half our attacks come from the left, so there is definitely a bias towards the left hand side, even if generally the play then ends up in tthe middle.
Sancho will deinfitely improve us, just we need to compliment his talent with a player in the middle who will exploit the quality from out wide, either a Cavani or a younger equivalent.
So all I am saying is Sancho alone will not elevate us, we need to either keep Cavani or get a similar player in.
We can't buy everyone mate. If the choice is winger like Sancho type or striker like Haaland type then the choice is Sancho to me.
We don't create enough chances to provide services when one of Bruno & Pogba is dropped. This won't benefit Haaland or similar type of striker.
If we get Sancho then we can use his talent to improve Rashford, Martial, Greenwood & Bruno next season goal scoring record and it will boost our team's xG to be closer to Man City's xG.
Where did I mention buying Haaland??
I understand what your saying, but will Sancho alone improve us enough alone to close the gap to City? I don't believe so, unless we can keep hold of Cavani or get a similar player in. Have a look at the way Dortmund have nearly always played whilst Sancho has been there, they always have had a target striker, we don't have that without Cavani.
We don't have to spend mega bucks on that player, we can get someone like Ings who would for the mould perfectly for me, won't play every game but will rotate depending on the opposition.
I don't think we suffer from a lack of creativity without Pogba or Bruno, what we do lack is a little bit of quality without them two which is obvious given the quality they possess.
Not necessarily. Dortmund have Leipzig and Leverkusen to play (at home) along with Mainz in their last 3. Wolfsburg play Union Berlin, Leipzig and Mainz. Frankfurt play Mainz, Schalke and Freiburg. Easily the hardest fixtures for Dortmund, though it is tight between 3-5. Regardless, they'll need to sell Sancho imo, but they'll hold on to the rest. Just hope we smarten up and go all in on Sancho, as he's been the ideal signing for us for years and someone we just can't miss out on.
Something I'm genuinely puzzled by.
All the talk about Sancho is about the RW and him being a RW'er
I've only watched BvB a few times live on TV, when Sancho has played and in all those matches, he's played mostly on the left, occasionally swapping over to the right wing.
I know they're not truly representative of any player, but I've also watched various "highlight" videos and in those, he predominately plays on the left and most of his goals and assists come from the left or down the middle.
Only a few from the right wing.
So a genuine question. Why are we talking about him purely in the context of a Right Winger?
All the talk about Sancho is about the RW and him being a RW'er
I've only watched BvB a few times live on TV, when Sancho has played and in all those matches, he's played mostly on the left, occasionally swapping over to the right wing.
I know they're not truly representative of any player, but I've also watched various "highlight" videos and in those, he predominately plays on the left and most of his goals and assists come from the left or down the middle.
Only a few from the right wing.
So a genuine question. Why are we talking about him purely in the context of a Right Winger?
That's not exactly true until Haaland came around. Before that it's frequently been Reus, Philipp or Götze upfront, sometimes Alcacer, but he didn't get to start many matches although he scored quite often.
I didn't say Haaland. I said type or striker like him. Ings to Cavani is downgrade mate. We shouldn't waste our money to downgrade our squad. If we want to replace Cavani then we need to buy someone on his level or better, otherwise we need to change our system.
We are suffering without Pogba or Bruno.
7x of 0-0 draws this season. xG below Liverpool, Man City & Chelsea despite of being 2nd highest goal scoring team and only 5 goals behind Man City. I think it is very clear what cost us the league this season and what is our no 1 weakness. The creativity, because we only have Pogba & Bruno and if one is injured/rested, we struggle to score. If both somehow get injured then we are fecked. Look at the difference xG between us and City.
Thing is, Sancho was always a player who'll eventually end up on the left wing. It's just more natural to him. This season he's already found on the left most of the time and IMO he's clearly better there. If you cut into the center - and the dribblings and one twos in tight spaces are his biggest assets - it's better to have the ball on your inside foot.
Thus I get the feeling that United isn't really the perfect fit for Sancho unless they plan to either drop Rashford (wouldn't make sense to me as he's a great player already and homegrown on top of it) or play him on the right/as a striker. I haven't seen much of him in those positions but if this is not an option, I'd stick with Rashford in United's stead and try to sign a left footed player for the right wing. I guess you could also play Sancho as a 10 but Bruno is even more undroppable, IMO.
This. I believe the idea that he's a RW still stems from his first season at Dortmund. He gradually drifted to the left ever since and nowadays that's clearly his favorite side.
Again,I didn't say Haaland. I said type or striker like him. Ings to Cavani is downgrade mate. We shouldn't waste our money to downgrade our squad. If we want to replace Cavani then we need to buy someone on his level or better, otherwise we need to change our system.
We are suffering without Pogba or Bruno.
7x of 0-0 draws this season. xG below Liverpool, Man City & Chelsea despite of being 2nd highest goal scoring team and only 5 goals behind Man City. I think it is very clear what cost us the league this season and what is our no 1 weakness. The creativity, because we only have Pogba & Bruno and if one is injured/rested, we struggle to score. If both somehow get injured then we are fecked. Look at the difference xG between us and City.
Any team would struggle without Bruno, Pogba or both, bar City! Its an obvious statement to say 'take your best two players out of the team and we'd struggle'.
We have plenty of creativity without them, we can score goals without them and have done, it just so happnes that they are our two best players both on the ball and without it.
Rashford has been the second most creative player in the team other than Bruno, followed by Shaw and then if you take pure stats it would be Martial. Taking all stats on a game by game average Pogba is not really hitting the hights in terms of pure numbers, Rashford, Martial and Shaw all are above his figures.
Ings to Cavani is a downgrade, having said that Ings has a near one goal to two game ratio at Southampton, so not really that much of a downgrade in terms of numbers.
I'm not insinuating he is the answer here, merely suggesting that without someone who can lurk inside the box we will not be getting the best of Sancho, I use the way Dortmund play as evidence of this, they have consistently had a number 9 in the box exploiting the delivery.
I would welcome Sancho, but we need a striker to get the best from him, thats all i am saying!
Aubameyang, Batshuayi and Alcacer all played up top,
Gotze was a failed experiment for half a season. Reus never really played up top that often, only when they realised Isak (another one!) or Phillip couldn't or didn't have the quality at the time to fill in, then they got Haaland.
Looks like Dortmund have momentum and are going to finish in a champions league spot. Anyone thinking that they’ll suddenly bend and and sell Sancho at a highly reduced fee will be mistaken. I think at a bare minimum, we’d have to offer £80 million plus add ons and I don’t see us doing that.
We would all do well, if we haven’t already, to forget about Haaland.
In which case, bring Sancho in. I have no idea what the walkaway price tag is, but if all we could do this summer is one player (realistically) then it has to be Sancho.
We can develop Greenwood at CF, with Cavani for cover. Martial, if not sold, can cover for Rashford. Diallo and James for additional depth. I assume Mata is leaving. No idea what’s what with Pellistri.
In which case, bring Sancho in. I have no idea what the walkaway price tag is, but if all we could do this summer is one player (realistically) then it has to be Sancho.
We can develop Greenwood at CF, with Cavani for cover. Martial, if not sold, can cover for Rashford. Diallo and James for additional depth. I assume Mata is leaving. No idea what’s what with Pellistri.
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