Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I wonder if we loaned them Amad for next season or part of it would it help sweeting the deal. Would prob be a good move for his development as he would get more playing time and Dortmund have a good history of improving young players and we would prob have enough to cover that position. Just a thought.
 
Having scanned through the last few pages of this thread it does look like a few of the journos are talking this one back up recently.

This summer feels like the right time to get Sancho with the rest of the football world seemingly preoccupied by Kane and Haaland. I remain convinced we don't have the finances to make either of those deals happen, at least not this summer, so Sancho must be the number one target.

Maybe this is wishful thinking but that combined with Sancho missing out on the recent England squad might make this deal slightly easier to get done under the radar. The hype surrounding him seems to have died down a little.
 
Boavista said:
I think the point about goals from counter attacks and getting lots space could be said about many players. Wouldn't you say the same applies to Rashford for instance? People have this idea that the best players score all these really difficult goals, when in reality it's more often some defender messing up, a player being afforded too much space, counterattacks and scrappy goals in a crowded penalty area. I think this idea that Sancho, or other players you don't watch regularly, gets way more space is magnified by people watching goal compilations or highlight reels. Look at goal compilations from wingers in the premier league and you'll see there's plenty of goals just like that.

I only watched the second half yesterday for example, but that was a cracking half with both teams getting tons of space and counter attacks. Besides, United under Ole love playing on the counter so I don't see that as a big problem. Sancho is also a really good player against low block teams anyway. The fact that he's brilliant on the counter and therefore lots of his goals result from those, shouldn't exactly be held against him because that applies to the majority of wide forwards, including Ronaldo etc.

As for your point regarding being burnt by transfers like Kagawa and Mikhi, I sometimes wonder if fans put too much of the blame on the players' quality and signing the wrong players in general, when I think the question should be does United provide the right environment for players/transfers to succeed. Not that I'm saying those two players were good enough or free from blame, ultimately they probably weren't, nor am I just referring to those two. But, let's say since SAF's retirement, how many players have unequivocally succeeded at United, be it new players or homegrown? Very few managed to show their quality consistently. It definitely feels like that has improved under Ole, but I don't believe that's just down to player recruitment. It's simply not easy for (new) players to play well when the team lacks structure or isn't performing well.

If you look at City for example, they sign a lot of players for a lot of money but more often that not those players do well there because they have a functioning team. People are quick to judge transfers as flops when they arrive in teams that are not a cohesive unit, whether that's more specifically in attack like Chelsea currently, or more in defence like Liverpool. I think that's definitely definitely a part of why United transfers often look bad, yet fans in general always want to fix every issue with new and better players.
Click to expand...

You're right re Kagawa and Mikhi being in poorer teams with us. I mean don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Sancho, the points I listed were reasons I'm skeptical of a big money deal. I tend to be a cautious person in general so that's just that side coming out of me.

R.e. counter attacking, as you say its not a bad thing, the point more being we tend to face teams that sit back more often than not. Whilst Sancho is a very good close control dribbler, what worries me is that in some games he can be a passive with his dribbling, not electing to take a man on, especially in the CL big games. That's probably what worries me the most, both Kagawa and Mikhi could not regularly best a man with skill. Whether Sancho would for us is a bit of a 50/50 and imo the biggest thing we need in our front line currently. Which is why I like someone like Saint Maximin, every Newcastle match he regularly beats opposition defenders with pace and skill.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Sanchos numbers are miles better than Mhkis and Kagawas and he has done it 3 seasons in a row now

In fact Sanchos numbers are even better than KDBs when he played in the Bundesliga and Sancho is/was much younger.

Sanchos numbers are literally sensational.

And that last point is borderline insanity. Sancho is literally in the bracket just below your Neymars and Mbappe.

Sanchos numbers themselves are in Neymar and Mbappe bracket. His assist numbers are literally neck and neck with Messi each season.

He gets double digit goals and assists every season.

To compare to Pepe is an absolute piss take.
Click to expand...

Kagawa and Mikhi both had 20 goal seasons or close to 20 goal seasons, which Sancho's only managed once.

You may be right on assists as I'm only going off of Wikipedia which doesn't show assists.

Pepe got 23 goals the season before he moved to Arsenal.
 
marktan said:
You're right re Kagawa and Mikhi being in poorer teams with us. I mean don't get me wrong - I'm a fan of Sancho, the points I listed were reasons I'm skeptical of a big money deal. I tend to be a cautious person in general so that's just that side coming out of me.

R.e. counter attacking, as you say its not a bad thing, the point more being we tend to face teams that sit back more often than not. Whilst Sancho is a very good close control dribbler, what worries me is that in some games he can be a passive with his dribbling, not electing to take a man on, especially in the CL big games. That's probably what worries me the most, both Kagawa and Mikhi could not regularly best a man with skill. Whether Sancho would for us is a bit of a 50/50 and imo the biggest thing we need in our front line currently. Which is why I like someone like Saint Maximin, every Newcastle match he regularly beats opposition defenders with pace and skill.
Click to expand...
If Saint Maximim could stay fit i would be there with you
 
Another summer of Dortmund being wankers and German posters lecturing us about our standing compared to Dortmund?

Count me out.
 
laughtersassassin said:
The excuses coming out of the club are not a good look. Last summer was almost a complete waste. Done next to nothing to improve us in the short term


Can't have excuses this year again.
Click to expand...
Actually in hindsight, holding off was actually a good move I think. It made us look bad at the time, but we are in a much stronger negotiating position this year, with only one year left on Sancho's contract, as well as Dortmund potentially missing out on CL football and being desperate for money. I think we'll get him this summer, and for significantly less than what they quoted us last year.

This is not to say Woodward was a genius by the way, he still made us look like mugs last summer and has got lucky.
 
Van Piorsing said:
Dortmund are greedy and United have no warchest. 1+1=Small chances of signing him.

He would be perfect signing though and would allow us to stretch opponents every possible way.
Click to expand...
You're ignoring current context. Dortmund are at risk of missing out on CL football and the revenue that goes with it. Plus if they don't sell Sancho this summer they risk losing him on a free next year. Last year they had the power as they didn't need to sell; this year we have the power because they do.

I do agree though that it ultimately comes down to how much money we actually have. If we are broke then it probably won't happen.
 
Mr Smith said:
You're ignoring current context. Dortmund are at risk of missing out on CL football and the revenue that goes with it. Plus if they don't sell Sancho this summer they risk losing him on a free next year. Last year they had the power as they didn't need to sell; this year we have the power because they do.

I do agree though that it ultimately comes down to how much money we actually have. If we are broke then it probably won't happen.
Click to expand...

No , this summer he'll have two years left, next summer it's one year.

Bayern bought Sane for around 50 million with one year left.
 
Sign him before the Haaland sweepstakes begin. Dortmund in turn hold off on selling Haaland till they actually need the money rather than feeling compelled to make Sancho their no.1 star.
 
marktan said:
Kagawa and Mikhi both had 20 goal seasons or close to 20 goal seasons, which Sancho's only managed once.

You may be right on assists as I'm only going off of Wikipedia which doesn't show assists.

Pepe got 23 goals the season before he moved to Arsenal.
Click to expand...
I'm not bothered with updating the stats, so they're almost a year old. But here they are... You're wrong though. And Pepe had like almost every pen to get those 23 goals.

Reposting the updated stats (from an earlier post of mine), and it's based on how long they were at the age. For example, Sancho just turned 20, but majority of the season he was 19 so it's his age 19 season.

"


1. Kagawa
a. 17 goals 14 assists as a 22 year old ~~2 dribbles per game ~~3300 minutes
b. 12 goals 2 assists as a 21 year old ~~1.3 dribbles per game~~2100 minutes

2. Mkhitaryan
a. 23 goals 32 assists as a 26/27 year old ~~2.6 dribbles per game~~4300 minutes
b. 5 goals 7 assists as a 25/26 year old ~~2.6 dribbles per game~~3100 minutes
c. 13 goals 10 assists as a 24/25 year old ~~3 dribbles per game~~3700 minutes

3. Gotze
a. 7 goals 8 assists as a 19 year old ~~3.5 dribbles per game ~~1700 minutes
b. 8 goals 16 assists as an 18 year old ~~2.5 dribbles per game ~~3000 minutes

Sancho
a. 20 goals 20 assists in his age 19 year old season (mid season) ~~2.8 dribbles per game~~2950 minutes
b. 13 goals 19 assists as an 18 year old ~~3.3 dribbles per game ~~3000 minutes

Based on age, rate (per game), dribbling, and end product I would argue that Sancho is #1. And he's 19 years old. You wouldn't need him to replicate his stats over in England. If he produces at 3/4 of those stats when he's in his prime, that would be a huge success. You should look at his age and his performances in Germany as a development stage for him. This is not even close a comparison in leagues (so don't take offense German fans), but if you were to take a Championship player doing well as a 19 year old, and then buy him, sure he won't hit those same heights initially (hello Zaha), but he will grow in ability that he will eventually start to produce at that level in the tougher league. Not sure why Sancho isn't the same. That's if you want to make that argument. I wouldn't make that argument because I'm fond of the Bundesliga, but even if you were to look at the Bundesliga in that manner, there is no argument to be had around the idea that "Sancho won't produce at that level in the PL."

On the other hand, someone like Mkhitaryan was already 27 years old when he came to the PL. There was no more development left for him. Completely different from Sancho's situation. Plus, look at Mkhitaryan's other seasons in Germany. He looks more like a 1 season wonder when it comes to that kind of end product rather than someone who jumped to a new level in ability.
"
 
marktan said:
Kagawa and Mikhi both had 20 goal seasons or close to 20 goal seasons, which Sancho's only managed once.

You may be right on assists as I'm only going off of Wikipedia which doesn't show assists.

Pepe got 23 goals the season before he moved to Arsenal.
Click to expand...
There's no guarantee that any player will be a hit, and of course your stats can be helped by playing in an attacking league. But the eye test alone will tell you that we're not witnessing another Kagawa and Mkhitaryan here. Sancho is genuinely one of the best young footballers on the planet.
 
KennyBurner said:
He cant cost more than 50 million and believe me thats a fair price. He is a very similar profile to sancho with a natural left foot and already plays here in the league. He also plays on the right. This is economically the best transfer for us if we also want to pursue Haaland. Sancho is a right footed play that prefers the left hand side. Ship has sailed. Id rather use the money for haaland raphinha and a deeplying playmaker to replace fred. Thats how we win the league next year.
Click to expand...
You're forgetting he just joined them last year and we'd be dealing with Leeds who are one of our biggest rivals chances of him coming cheap are as likely as poison being edible. He'd cost closer to £70m which gets you Sancho if not an extra £5-10m and The Englishman represents much better value
 
KennyBurner said:
He cant cost more than 50 million and believe me thats a fair price. He is a very similar profile to sancho with a natural left foot and already plays here in the league. He also plays on the right. This is economically the best transfer for us if we also want to pursue Haaland. Sancho is a right footed play that prefers the left hand side. Ship has sailed. Id rather use the money for haaland raphinha and a deeplying playmaker to replace fred. Thats how we win the league next year.
Click to expand...
I don't think the ship has sailed. Haaland will stay and Raphinha will cost plenty given it's Leeds. He's also nowhere near being one of the best young players on the planet which Sancho is. You have to at least acknowledge that you're settling for a much lesser player in the choice you're making.
 
Wouldn’t be the worst move to get Sancho which means Dortmund don’t need to sell Haaland, and then try for Haaland next summer.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
There's no guarantee that any player will be a hit, and of course your stats can be helped by playing in an attacking league. But the eye test alone will tell you that we're not witnessing another Kagawa and Mkhitaryan here. Sancho is genuinely one of the best young footballers on the planet.
Click to expand...
Kagawa and Mkhitaryan got their Dortmund numbers when Dortmund had good teams that worked well. Sancho is getting the same numbers in a completely fecked Dortmund team, that should give you some perspective. They were important parts of the team, but Sancho is carrying the team in many games.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
There's no guarantee that any player will be a hit, and of course your stats can be helped by playing in an attacking league. But the eye test alone will tell you that we're not witnessing another Kagawa and Mkhitaryan here. Sancho is genuinely one of the best young footballers on the planet.
Click to expand...

He clearly is better talent wise, the question is is he worth £80m+ where Kagawa and Mikhi both cost under £30m.

Personally I don't think he's at that level, Pogba and Lukaku both went for that and were far more established than Sancho is.
 
marktan said:
He clearly is better talent wise, the question is is he worth £80m+ where Kagawa and Mikhi both cost under £30m.

Personally I don't think he's at that level, Pogba and Lukaku both went for that and were far more established than Sancho is.
Click to expand...

It's better to compare him to KDB considering he is doing better numbers in the same league at a younger age.

Sancho has always been a bigger talent than the other two ever where. The comparison is nonsense.

He is the best winger money can buy other than Mbappe. Mbappe goes for 200mil. Sancho is the tier just below him. The valuation isn't insane.
 
I would think he'd be available for around 60-70m this summer.
For that price, chances are he'd be worth it.
I hope we pull the trigger.
 
Surely 60 million plus lingard would be a really good deal for everyone, lingard would likely thrive in the Bundesliga at Dortmund, dortmund get a player that can fit well in their system, sancho gets his move and united finally solve the right wing issue.
 
marktan said:
He clearly is better talent wise, the question is is he worth £80m+ where Kagawa and Mikhi both cost under £30m.

Personally I don't think he's at that level, Pogba and Lukaku both went for that and were far more established than Sancho is.
Click to expand...
That was ages back. We're paying decent money for young talents like Amad nowadays. Market has expanded (net) since we signed Pogba. Lukaku was more established but nowhere near as big a talent. Sancho was setting records in Germany for a player of his age in his 2nd season. This is more like a young Gotze, Fabregas, Hazard (maybe slightly lower) etc i.e one of the most wanted young footballers. Debataeable what is the 'right' price is a Covid hit football economy but I'd spend 80 million on him if I had to. In this market, I'd try for 70 odd million.
 
Will never happen but wouldn't a good deal for all be parties be to do do something like this:

Sancho for 80Million this summer
Agree to sign Haaland for 80-100Million now but with him spending next season on loan back at Dortmund with us paying the fee in a years time.

Everybody seems to win in this scenario.
 
laughtersassassin said:
It's better to compare him to KDB considering he is doing better numbers in the same league at a younger age.

Sancho has always been a bigger talent than the other two ever where. The comparison is nonsense.

He is the best winger money can buy other than Mbappe. Mbappe goes for 200mil. Sancho is the tier just below him. The valuation isn't insane.
Click to expand...
I think this sums it up for me. The way I see it, RW has been a huge issue for us over the years. Liverpool have had Mane and Salah tear up the league. City have had Sterling and others. We now have Rashford emerging as a quality wide forward but you see world football and other than Mbappe, Sancho is the highest quality young wide forward that's available and one of the few talents in the game who could hit elite tier level or thereabouts, in the coming years.

That just makes him someone we really should not miss out on.
 
Dortmund won't qualify for CL this season and Sancho's contract expires in 2023. 70 million pounds should do it? Dortmund board shouldnt get in his way as he was professional through the whole saga last summer as far as I know.
 
Lee565 said:
Surely 60 million plus lingard would be a really good deal for everyone, lingard would likely thrive in the Bundesliga at Dortmund, dortmund get a player that can fit well in their system, sancho gets his move and united finally solve the right wing issue.
Click to expand...

Would be an awesome deal, but dont think Lingard would move to Germany , he is quite the family man nowadays.
 
If Dortmund miss out on CL, there is no chance Sancho and Haaland stays is it?

Right now they are 6 points behind CL qualification with 6 games to go. And while i dont know shite about their finances i'd imagine COVID have impacted them as much as anyone else, which means missing out on CL will be a massive financial hit, which in turn might mean they are skint this summer

Lets offer 50 million for Sancho and then tell them to go feck themselves
 
Mr Smith said:
You're ignoring current context. Dortmund are at risk of missing out on CL football and the revenue that goes with it. Plus if they don't sell Sancho this summer they risk losing him on a free next year. Last year they had the power as they didn't need to sell; this year we have the power because they do.

I do agree though that it ultimately comes down to how much money we actually have. If we are broke then it probably won't happen.
Click to expand...
You're ignoring a blatant context of having Glazers & Woodward still in charge of the money.

There's a logical reason why we've gone for Amad & Pellistri and no matter how many years on contract Sancho has, Dortmund will always try to skin us. Sancho so far is very respectful to them and he won't push for transfer request and chances are he could sign another contract and stay in Germany.
 
Bobcat said:
If Dortmund miss out on CL, there is no chance Sancho and Haaland stays is it?

Right now they are 6 points behind CL qualification with 6 games to go. And while i dont know shite about their finances i'd imagine COVID have impacted them as much as anyone else, which means missing out on CL will be a massive financial hit, which in turn might mean they are skint this summer

Lets offer 50 million for Sancho and then tell them to go feck themselves
Click to expand...
Isn't it 7 points?
 
Bobcat said:
If Dortmund miss out on CL, there is no chance Sancho and Haaland stays is it?

Right now they are 6 points behind CL qualification with 6 games to go. And while i dont know shite about their finances i'd imagine COVID have impacted them as much as anyone else, which means missing out on CL will be a massive financial hit, which in turn might mean they are skint this summer

Lets offer 50 million for Sancho and then tell them to go feck themselves
Click to expand...
I think they have a modest loss of around 27m EUR, and they said they will need to make sales if any plans to bring people into stadium gets put into further doubt.

Add to that the fact that Sancho is in a stronger contractual position to leave this summer compared to last, and that his value would have reduced intrinsically (year older, subpar season, etc.) you're looking at around 80m they'd probably want, and 70m max we'd offer if we go by Athletic. I think we will walk if they take a piss, so I don't anticipate a saga on this at all.

I reckon we will be more measured this time and say 70m. They can say 80m and he's yours and we'll move on and end it. Then if Sancho causes a fuss, Dortmund can re-open on their side, but we won't be chasing a loose end on it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.