Have just been watching the dortmund vs Hoffenheim game and I don’t know if anyone else is closely watching this game, but defending in the German league, at least this game ive caught is absolutely woeful. Its a constant high line game, that players like Sancho excel at, its a question of whether his numbers at Dortmund can translate to the premier league and if that consideration is taken into account of his valuation. Definitely has put some doubts in my mind, so much space for his first goal I doubt he will see in the prem.
Is Jadon Sancho really worth the 100 plus million fee?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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I was under the same impression just from watching his goals/assists from last season during the summer saga. He put up insane numbers, but it looked like a good half of those came from just picking off teams with simple play who had sent suicidal numbers forward to chase a game.
You're pretty much bang on, he aint all that.
Bundesliga doesn’t know what parking the bus is and that’s why Klopp always moan about it. They always play high line. Very rarely I see bundes Liga teams park the bus, may be Werder Bremen only from what I watched this season.
Hoffenheim went for it today which made it a very open match, but I´ve seen many Dortmund games this season looking very different. I don´t think you can generalise from this match.
When I look at Sancho, I see Riyad Mahrez 2.0, so anything above 60 million seems to me like an overpay.
We're not getting Haaland and I seriously doubt we'd get Sancho and Graelish in one window when we also need a top centre back.
So its not something we'll need to worry about.
I just don’t think we want him any more. Other priorities, other targets. If he’s going cheap, we might sit up. It’s a buyers’ market with Sancho now, so £100m is not happening. The idea he was ever worth that seems ludicrous but I was one saying we should get him at any cost. He would have helped us this year but I’m thinking Amad will be kicking it by next year.
Mahrez would walk into our starting eleven in my opinion.
He won’t be going for anything more than 60m...and even that would need two clubs being after him at that price with the number of clubs capable of that outlay on one player in this market pretty small. Dortmund have to sell, he wants to leave, off the back of an average season with 2 years on his contract in a COVID market. For all the shit we got last summer looking back they were fecking insane turning down what they did.
I think we will go for him if we sell Pogba. Replacing Pogba's creativity is also part of the priority. We can't move next season with only Bruno or Shaw as our only creative player.
Assuming we sell Pogba, how much do we think he will fetch around 50 - 60 odd Million. I think this amount will be enough to obtain Sancho. However, if we were to sign Grealish on top of it, we will need to spend 80M for him and another 40 - 50 Million for a CB, that will take our summer spending to 120 - 130 Million. I don't think we will spend this much with Covid and all.
We will probably sign Sancho or Grealish which will be from the money generated from Pogba sale.
We will probably Sign a CB for big bucks and a RB for competition with AWB similar to Telles deal (for 10 -15 odd million).
So we won't be spending more than 60 - 70 Million.
We will probably sign Sancho or Grealish which will be from the money generated from Pogba sale.
We will probably Sign a CB for big bucks and a RB for competition with AWB similar to Telles deal (for 10 -15 odd million).
So we won't be spending more than 60 - 70 Million.
No midfield player if Pogba leaves? We`d be stuck with McFred again
Agreed but I don’t think the way our squad is evolving we will buy a right winger now.
Amad has been brought to play on our wing or at least to be tried there.
If I had the choice to buy a creative player now it would have to be Grealish.
Greenwood, Grealish, Rashford and Diallo. I think would be perfect as wide forward options.
Add to the fact grealish can cover Bruno and be used in a double pivot when throwing the kitchen sink at the opponent, it’s right for our evolution.
Grealish adds a lot more weapons to our arsenal, he’s box office.
Rashford————Cavani————-Greenwood
—————-Grealish———-Bruno
——————————Fred————————————
That’s a devastating watch.
Grealish would also cost close to 100m while Sancho could be available for as little as 60-70m plus 5 years younger and equally adept to either wing. Do you genuinely think Utd will play 9 digits for Grealish(in a pandemic) when Sancho who was our top target last summer is available for a significantly cheaper fee?
The reason I want Grealish over Sancho is that one is more like a Hazard type player whilst one is maybe a more creative version of Rashford.
If I could get both then I would but ultimately Grealish is something more different to what we have in the squad.
If I could get both then I would but ultimately Grealish is something more different to what we have in the squad.
100 percent. £30 million premium for a better player who is proven in the league is a premium worth paying.
No doubt add ons will be built in to the price and if he hits them it’s without a doubt worth it.
£60-70 million for sancho is a pipe dream also considering Dortmund were holding out for an extra £10 million last year for the deal. They will both be around £100 million.
A devastating watch, defensively.
Sure if Pogba goes we’ll try to buy someone to replace him. If we sign a marquee player that will be exciting in itself but I will be quite surprised if it’s Sancho. I really was keen on him until we got Amad (who may or may not make it, we’ll see), now I favour Grealish if we’re replacing Pogba.
In the early SAF days (and under Big Ron) we pretty much bought whoever we wanted. Now we have to work off a long list and take whichever player we’re able to make a deal for (and get shafted in the process). In that context I’ll be delighted with any big signing, including Sancho.
I think nostalgia is skewing your memory a bit when it comes to yesteryears. Under Atkinson, the idea of buying one of the worlds better players in their age and position was quite a farfetched one. We broke the English record for Bryan Robson as the most extravagant thing we did, and spent a big sum on Frank Stapleton, one of the best players from a team near the top. The only player of note we got from outside of Britain was Jesper Olsen, a nifty player but nowhere near the best in his position at the time. It pales in comparison to buying Maguire, Lukaku and Pogba for world record fees for their positions, in addition to Mkhitarian, Matic and Bruno.
Also under Ferguson, if you look at it in five year periods, doing something like buying player of the year from Bundesliga (Mkhi) or the most wanted young midfielder in the world (Pogba) was something that couldn’t have happened before we were fifteen years into his tenure. Only with the buys of Barthez, Veron and Van Nistelrooij did we begin to pick anything at all from the top end of the International market. At that time, we were recent CL winners and regular league winners.
Ferguson in his early days certainly didn’t buy ‘pretty much whoever he wanted’. In fact, part of his legacy was ingenious buys like Irwin, Schmeichel, Kanchelskis and Cantona. Granted, he did spend big (for England) on young talent like Pallister, Ince and Keane during the first five years, but nothing like these five last years.
True about the foreign players but they were not as common as they are now.
The players I am thinking of are the ones you mentioned plus Jordan, Wilkins, Birtles, Muhren, Strachan, Webb. In the mid SAF period there’s Rooney and Rio. Not all of them worked out but they were all highly desired players, big signings that other clubs could not compete and the selling clubs could not resist. Any rising star or top player was usually linked with us. The money we’ve spent recently has been in players who would not have got into our better sides in the past (they cost more but they are not better).
It’s harder to get those players now. Clubs don’t have to sell like they used to and when a player is available, there are many more clubs with the means to buy them.
yeah given the utter flops pretty much every young purported WC player has been since leaving the bundesliga in the last 5 years, the idea they can get anywhere near what they use to is well and truly dead. Chelsea's purchases have cemented the positions on those types of acquisitions.
I still believe there is a player in VDB. His best position is alongside a DM which is either Fred or Mctominay (depending on the opposition and their reliance on set pieces.
Whereas the front four could be something like this:
Sancho/Greenwood Bruno/Grealish Grealish/Rashford/Martial
Cavani/Martial/Greenwood
If he sign both Sancho and Grealish i think our best front four would be Sancho Bruno Grealish and Cavani with Rashford, Martial and Greenwood all on the bench.
I now even have doubts if anyone is going to pay 50-60M for Pogba this summer in COVID market. Given that they can just wait 6 months and sign him for free.
I think it's a bit worrying that his best games lately are coming from the left.
His preference of playing there would be highlighted more in the PL and especially in this United team.
His preference of playing there would be highlighted more in the PL and especially in this United team.
I would rather have Grealish too, but they're different players who play in different positions. Grealish plays on the left, while Sancho plays on the right.
I'm not too keen on Sancho, last year I was not upset about missing out on him with the reported fee at the time. For £60m though, it makes sense as a deal.
I'm not too keen on Sancho, last year I was not upset about missing out on him with the reported fee at the time. For £60m though, it makes sense as a deal.
Its already in the German media(note German media) his price tag is around 80m if they miss out on CL football it will be even lower. BVB have been hit HARD by the pandemic financially go look at their P&L records even their officials have come out indirectly saying they made a mistake keeping Sancho against his will they`ll be willing to negotiate this time there`s a higher chance of Trump being a Pope than Sancho costing 100m or anything close to that
Same way there`s not a chance in hell Utd in the middle of a pandemic will pay 100m for Grealish its what you`d(understandably) want but what Utd want and what they`ll do is very different especially when you factor in they value Rashford and Bruno HIGHLY and Grealish`s best position is where those two play Woodward will 100% intervene and say no under such a circumstance kinda like how he did when Jose wanted to swap Martial for Willian
Great on FIFA, but that’s a horrible looking midfield if I’m honest. I don’t think we’re going to move back to a 4-3-3 with Bruno being so dominant as a #10. If we were to sign Grealish, it would be to play wide or centrally in our attack, not to play in a midfield three. Fred is suspect enough with a partner to cover him, don’t make him do it all himself!
We should be fined 100 million for not buying a right winger since Nani!! Our main problems are the same as always and no creativity/playing a striker on the right is right up there. How have we not fixed this since. when rashford plays direct and actually puts the ball into the box without a needless cut back we are actually way more dangerous, faster and less predictable
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Jordan (and MacQueen) came from Leeds as relative marquee signings, but not under Atkinson. I believe it was Dave Sexton. Birtles and Wilkins was also Sexton. Four big british buys in four years. Jordan of course left for Milan against because of their relative draw and financial power, and Wilkins likewise some years later. I remember the joy when we got Veron, and I thought, finally we’re buying one of the worlds best players in his position! Look how that went ...
Rio, Ronaldo and Rooney were great, expensive buys aimed at building a new team. What some people (not you) forget is that United went through a three year slump in order to build that way, because young players don’t carry a team to the top from the go. It was Fergusons worst period bar the opening six years, and it was worth it. Three years in the shadows of Arsenal and Chelsea. You of course remember several voices on this forum said he was past it and wanted him gone in that period. Funny to think about now ...
Martial, Shaw, Depay has been that kind of signings of later years, possibly Diallo (we fantasize). Memory Lane.
Yeah, you’re right, Sexton bought those guys. I remember the Jordan and McQueen signings as I had them on my wall but photographed in Leeds kit and my dad wrote on the posters “transfered to Manchester United” with the dates and transfer fees. Every time we made those signings I thought “this is our year”.
Yesterday match clearly shows what happened if we lose another creative player, we will be left with Bruno and Shaw as our main creative players which not enough especially against team that likely to park the bus. Sancho might not be a marquee player that will excite you but the point is that he has top class creativity ability in the final third to create chances or assists for the goal scorers.
I do think Grealish will cost more than Sancho this summer since Dortmund probably suffered more financially and also Grealish just signed a new contract last summer. Either way, if we lose Pogba it makes sense to make one of Sancho or Grealish as part of the priority.
We were already fined about as much when the Glazers took Ronaldo's transfer fee and likely spent it on hookers and cocaine.
Haha. I remember the feeling. It has been great watching the Liverpudlians cling on to that monicker from 1990 to 2020, but now it’s back in our hands ...
Granted, we’ve never been so close the last seven years, so were going closer.
Sancho is a must this summer.
Get rid of Martial and Mata (I love Mata but he just won't feature enough).
Get rid of Martial and Mata (I love Mata but he just won't feature enough).
Sometimes I wonder if we should go for a cheaper RW but then realise that doesn't mean we will necessarily spend big in other priority areas because we don't operate as a football club but more a business
Why would we go for a cheaper right wing though! Sancho is a fantastic right winger and is the single biggest upgrade we could make to our team. He balances out the front 3 by having a creator in there to support 2 forwards/scorers, raising the level of the others as he'll make better decisions and we'll have a threat from both sides now. He's a natural on the right, compared to left inside forwards or strikers playing there, which will balance out our attack. He'll help Wan Bissaka loads by being the main threat and leaving Wan Bissaka to do the support role he can do, rather than the main role which he can't (not to mention leave Wan Bissaka with more energy to not get caught out of position or far up the pitch as often). He's proven in a top league, has some excellent performances in the CL, already lived in Manchester previously, is English, only 20 years old, and over the past few years has cemented himself as one of the best creators in world football. He would be a complete game changer for us and should be a must for Ole and the staff.
Yes we have other holes. But none are as significant or have the impact our right wing neglect has on the rest of our team. Sort that out, and if we do nothing else it'll still be a solid summer. Center back as a #2 after Sancho though would be a massive step forwards.
Getting Sancho is very important this summer. We really need to address that RW issue and he should be fairly cheap this season.
Not to mention he's a brilliant back up for the LW and can also cover the no. 10 position.
Not to mention he's a brilliant back up for the LW and can also cover the no. 10 position.
Do you not have any concerns that he could struggle to replicate his Bundesliga form here, my other worry is that we will get the Jadon which we see turn out for the England team that I have to be honest has never blown me away
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