This. And England fans generally has low knowledge about the game compared to other nations. They watch a lot of football, but the knowledge stops there
Is Gareth Southgate a shiite England manager?
- Thread starter VP89
- Start date
This. And England fans generally has low knowledge about the game compared to other nations. They watch a lot of football, but the knowledge stops there
Griezmann Giroud and Rabiot wouldn't get into the England squad let alone first 11. You should know all about Rabiot from Juve. There are players left at home who get in ahead of a few of them in Maddison, Ivan Toney and Tomori
Try something different? Rice is fecking awful.
Thought he was pretty good yesterday to be honest.
I think you're going to be disappointed even if Southgate gets sacked. I imagine Rice and Bellingham will form the nucleus of the next midfield. It's the third spot that might see more creative thinking.
Why hasn't he ever considered this at all
I won't give a flying feck what happens with England's midfield
I just think he holds the team back and is a massive weak-link. He's garbage when he actually has to try playing football.
I agree on Eddie Howe, equally I think Graham Potter would've been a good choice as a successor with both of them being similar man managers to Southgate but tactically superior. However neither of them are leaving their current jobs. Agree on Poch/Tuchel too. It's just not a pool that screams "get rid of Southgate" to me.
What about Rooney, would he be interested in the job?
Griezmann works as hard as Mount with much more quality, he’s like Southgates dream 10
Giroud is better than all but one English strikers
Why are you suddenly coming out with not caring about the midfield when you're commenting on an England midfielder? You care enough about the personnel to comment on the personnel, that seems quite straight forward. Every selection is relative to what is available and that's not a lot in central midfield so you're saying change it but to what and you provide no answer.I won't give a flying feck what happens with England's midfield
I just think he holds the team back and is a massive weak-link. He's garbage when he actually has to try playing football.
I don't think he's holding anything back, he's a defensive midfielder. You surround defensive midfielders with guys that are better at playing football, so that's up to the manager. In the long term there are creative players that can be tried in midfield but that's not going to put Rice out of business.
Thought he played pretty well. He's a good player. Just not an elite one.
I thought he was dreadful when he had to use the ball. Don't see it with him.
I don't 'care'? It was an observation about Southgate picking Rice. I think Rice is gash, if England (whoever the manager is) keep picking him, then brilliant. For me, he's a weak-link and will continue to hold England back; just like his manager.
Brazil of the 70s was an obvious exaggeration when people are asking for a manager to be more proactive (or stop being a coward) when his plan is already working against sides of equal quality in games where a simple mistake or miscalculation from the bench can send you straight to the hotel packing your bags. If you want to tell me that when it comes to forcing changes under high pressure, Southgate factors in his own limitations as a manager (as well as how he sees the game is unfolding) before he makes a decision, i will accept that. But the history of these competitions suggests that you don't have to be brave to go all the way. Quite the opposite. Deschamps and Santos won trophies by being cautious and waiting for their players to make their moments count. Del Bosque and Low presented far more defensive and mundane versions of Barcelona and Bayern Munich, the teams that provided the basis for their NTs. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me what deviates Southgate's overall approach, in a bad way, from what has brought success to everyone else. What changes have these managers done, proactively, to change things around? What did Deschamps do when England equalized and went on to boss the game? Feck all, as far as i remember. He stayed the course and trusted the initial plan. As has Dalic throughout the tournament. As has Regragui. As has Scaloni, for the most part, after the Mexico game.
I understand that you guys feel disappointed. And, in the back of your heads, you were probably thinking "beat France and we're in another final". I'm just saying that it's very difficult to win these tournaments (as is winning the CL at club level). Too many things, some of them completely out of your hands, can go wrong. You were actually better, for big parts of the 90 mins, against the team that is on the way to achieve what hasn't been done in 60 years. As i said earlier, a proper European derby, the best the continent had to offer in terms of quality. After playing a final in 2021. It's not a league competition. Being able to maintain that level is a success on its own.
The Germans began their efforts after the 2004 debacle, and their golden generation managed to get rewarded 10 years later. After getting their arses constantly handed to them by the Spaniards and the Italians time after time. In the 2014 knockouts, Algeria (does anyone remember them?) took them to extra-time. After that, Neuer made one of the best saves in the WC against Giroud. In the final, Higuain missed a sitter that could have changed the complexion of the final. It wasn't just the 7-1. It's not easy, that why it's the Holy Grail for every footballer out there.
Yep, we’ll really see what a shite England manager is.
We controlled the ball pretty well yesterday, the issue to me was we had no gameplan after keeping hold of the ball to really try and hurt France. The idea was to give Saka the ball and have him run at Hernandez. That was it. Just like in the previous tournament, and all matches against tough opposition, we struggle to create any chances from open play because Southgate is continually out maneuvered tactically. We never ever have a Plan B.
But we're qualifying for the knockouts on a regular basis and that seems to be enough for some people with zero ambition. Completely blind to the fact that when we meet any kind of decent opposition we crumble. Anyone daring to put money on us winning anything with Southgate in charge is an utter fool. He's the poster boy for mediocrity.
Yeah, well Pickford is probably a weak link. Maguire and Stones are probably weak links. Unfortunately we do have to kind of pick the best we have in positions so you criticise him for picking Rice then come out with nothing to substantiate the idea he's making a poor selection which was your whole point to begin with.
To be honest I don't think anyone really cares about the things you don't care about. It's a forum, substantiating the opinion you offered is of more value. Rice is gash..okay, well done..now why has Southgate got it wrong, what should he have done?
Can't see anyone leaving a club side to take it on, then again Potter might be free aorund March maybe. I think he's been an okish enough manager, he's set them up how he's see them having the best chance of winning, at times it's dreadful stuff but it has proved effective for the most part. I'm not even an England fan, but don't see anyone out there that will be significantly better.
There have been some questionable moments like picking 5 right backs and his favouritism of certain players even when they are playing shite Sterling, Mount etc and some weird sub choices like last night and the Euro final.
But this is like when Big Sam took over, the pool is crap, if GS leaves the best English manager you are going to get that is available is probably Chris Wilder the rest that are available are Parker, Dyche, Brian McDermott & Gerrard. And none of them are really anything inspiring choices. Unless the FA go looking for another Sven, but I don't think they will go for another non English manager.
Last edited:
Eddie Howe is a better fit than Potter for international football. He's not as tied down to a system as he's shown at Newcastle. Potter is maybe too dogmatic in his approach to be a great international football manager.
I'm not going to pretend that the penalty on Mount was a Southgate masterstroke, and not a lucky for Mount/stupid by Hernandez moment, especially when you unironically brought up outcome bias.
At this point, Southgate may as well substitute himself in and score 3 own goals, and you'll still make excuses for him.
they played well this tournament but the subs were shocking today
he is just so cautious it's ridiculous
Sterling is gash and a waste of time and what is the point of Grealish for like one minute?
he is just so cautious it's ridiculous
Sterling is gash and a waste of time and what is the point of Grealish for like one minute?
You’ve nailed it overall, but I wouldn’t be that harsh on Southgate. You would put money in Kane concerting on both penalties and at that point the match was there for England to beat the side that at this point I see as the best team left in the competition. Against France, England did the best their talent level — which if we’re going to be honest, is wildly overrated (though very solid) — allowed against a substantially superior side at almost every position.
Going forward, Potter would be a sensational manager for England. He’s a man manager and a tactician. And he handles the media well. Southgate deserves respect for what he’s accomplished with a squad no one would say either in the Euro or the World Cup was the best in those competitions, but it’s time for everyone to move on.
I don't get the Rice love, I don't understand why he's worth £100m+, I don't understand why some people on here think he 'bosses' midfield's, particularly against us. He's just okay, he's the worst half of Carrick. What does he actually do?
Ok, bud.
Eddie Hower maybe but he's at Newcastle
Maybe in a few years. Needs to win trophies at club level.
England got same problem as last golden generation circa 2006. Squad is stacked but no one world class English to manage them.
This group would have a real chance to win Euros or next WC with a top manager in charge, Pep, Tuchel ( if sort personal life out), Ancelotti etc. That's cheating pretty much though isn't it?
Managerial masterstroke to waste more time and allow France to go through, I guess. Think Grealish murdered Southgate's cat at this point. Cynical as pointless, while Rashford in goalscoring form getting scraps of time on the pitch.
The only good coming out of this is no injuries from United players.
A political yes man, tactically dull who failed to make the best of the abundant talent he has available.
It's so obvious, isn't it?
Southgate was playing for a draw. He was planning for the penalty shootout and his plan was to let Rashford and Grealish take the penalties.
Southgate all along is playing for a draw and that's why England hardly threaten in the beginning. And Kane will never be subbed out.
He's a very predictable manager. Personally I would bring in Tammy and Calum Wilson to the squad and let them fight when Kane is not running hard.
Stones was injured so he made a sub
I agree. Dunno what Mount does to get on ahead of Grealish but he did win the pen so there's that
ah okay, wasn’t aware of that
was watching in a club and a band was playing in front of the screen, it was ridiculous!
Sterling should never get back into the squad once he flew home.
If you separate from the squad for a few days and you weren't a regular starter then don't bother.
I get his house was broken into, but chasing a game bringing on Sterling? You bring on someone that left the squad if you're winning a few goals to integrate them back into the team, get them a bit of confidence. He wasn't getting regular minutes for England so it makes no sense.
Rashford was in great form, and he kept getting benched. Rashford should be starting that game ahead of Foden give the France defence a problem.
Mount obviously did fine coming on but again, use players like Grealish as a ball carrier, especially after you see Upamecano in the first half they couldn't defend to save their lives to make it difficult for them. I genuinely don't understand Southgate.
Could have deployed Grealish in a CAM role and just let him carry the ball forward over Foden, Rashford starting like I said.
It genuinely baffles me, I hope he's not there for the Euros.
It's how I feel in general about him but it's such a weird point to try to make today of all days when he arguably had his best performance in an England shirt, both on and off the ball. He was surprisingly good on the ball, if anything.
I think it's fine to build around him and Bellingham, it's actually a very good idea, but you need a much better 3rd player to go with them. Henderson is terrible most of the time and gets a nosebleed anytime he attempts anything creative.
The highest profiles available are Tuchel and Pochettino, maybe even Conte from June or Deschamps if he steps down next week.
I honestly thought he was shite last night. The point was more overarching anyway, and I've made it before about him. Not sure why Southgate HAS to pick him every single game, no matter what. His ball-playing skills are beyond limited, and he's just very overrated in general.
Should absolutely hand him a long-term contract. The team looks good and is only getting better. Lock Southgate in now and let him work with the team coming through. Fantastic, brilliant manager.
TBF England didn't create anything from open play apart from the early Kane chance. Was 2 penalties out of nothing positions, and there lies the problem with Southgate. When playing against another good team, he doesn't know how to actually create good chances. He's far too cautious, and England never look like creating anything unless it's a set piece. You can't win an international tournament by being a set piece team. With a good fixture list and some luck you can go far, but you'll come short eventually which has been the story of Southgates England career. Always failed against the first big team they played, apart from 1 win vs the worst Germany side in decades.
Yes they did.
Should have had six penalties though! The boys were kicked off the pitch, they hadn't a hope. Keep Southgate in and England will reap the rewards in future tournaments. He is the future. With established generational talent like Declan Rice and Harry Maguire, combined with the new golden crop of Mount, Saka etc this team will win back-to-back WCs if Southgate is kept and locked into a long-term contract now. Sign him up.