Irish Politics

Seems like even if they don't need them, FF/G should bring in a junior partner or two, as they tend to get shafted
 
Seems like even if they don't need them, FF/G should bring in a junior partner or two, as they tend to get shafted

If they don't need then they probably won't bother.

It was reported recently that the SDs had said they'd drive a hard bargain if they were getting into bed with that lot. Things change obviously but if they only need a handful of seats, then yeah they'll likely just get a few friendly independents.
 
SDP's the kingmakers?

I like Holly Cairns. She lives near my elderly parents and has been very kind to them over the years. Be happy for her if she gets her party into government.
All the lads like Holly,

It depends on the rest of the seats, they may not need the hassle of the SDs and the SDs will not want to risk the usual small party disintegration, as they can see a place for them as a larger left-wing party in the future. Most likely the four Independent Ireland lads plus one or two more.
 
There's loads. Which bit interests you?

The three players broadly speaking are Keynes, Hayek and Friedman. Keynes being the economist that favoured government involvement in building and managing the welfare state model.

Friedman's 1951 essay is worth reading. It's only short.

Link

This is the paragraph on the governments duty of care to provide safety nets. The dominant theory at the time was much more of a post WW2 strong regulated government and economy for all vibe tracing the instability of the 30s back to the Great Crash which arguably led to WW2. So even Friedman knew that not allowing the poor become too poor was a risk not just to them but to society. So while he believed in the markets, he saw the potential dangers.

"Finally, the government would have the function of relieving misery and distress. Our humanitarian sentiments demand that some provision should be made for those who “draw blanks in the lottery of life”. Our world has become too complicated and intertwined, and we have become too sensitive, to leave this function entirely to private charity or local responsibility. It is essential, however, that the performance of this function involve the minimum of interference with the market. There is justification for subsidizing people because they are poor, whether they are farmers or city-dwellers, young or old. There is no justification for subsidizing farmers as farmers rather than because they are poor. There is justification in trying to achieve a minimum income for all; there is no justification for setting a minimum wage and thereby increasing the number of people without income; there is no justification for trying to achieve a minimum consumption of bread separately, meat separately, and so on."

This is a not very glowing article from the Guardian in 2017 titled The Idea That Changed The World here

The key moments were Chile in 1973, where he convinced the Yanks to 'help' Pinochet undo the regulation of the Chilean economy under the elected left wing governments and install a neoliberal policy.

Thatcher and Reagan embraced it and then I suppose the next big moment was the Clinton/Alan Greenspan era.
Fantastic, thanks. I've always associated Friedman with Thatcher and aggressive free market economics without ever bothering to read much about him, it seems quite a depressing thought that we could be in a state whereby Friedman might seem moderate.
 
Great, Mehole to be the leader once again.

FF/FG may just merge and be done with it.
Proportional Representation generally does involve coalition governments. It's hard to see ROI ever having an outright majority single party government and especially now as FF/FG are in coalition people find it difficult to tell them apart.
 
Basically done now.
FF - 48
SF - 39
FG - 38
Greens - 1
Labour - 11
Soc Dem - 11
PBP - 3
Aontu - 2
Independent Ireland - 4
Independents - 16
Other - 1

88 Needed for majority. FFG have 86 so not quite there. Hopefully Social Democrats and Labour dont sign their death warrant and they have to go to independents to form a government. FF have beaten FG by a big enough margin that they wont be sharing the role of taoiseach.
 
Basically done now.
FF - 48
SF - 39
FG - 38
Greens - 1
Labour - 11
Soc Dem - 11
PBP - 3
Aontu - 2
Independent Ireland - 4
Independents - 16
Other - 1

88 Needed for majority. FFG have 86 so not quite there. Hopefully Social Democrats and Labour dont sign their death warrant and they have to go to independents to form a government. FF have beaten FG by a big enough margin that they wont be sharing the role of taoiseach.
It'll be the Independent Ireland lads. Nailed on.

Apparently not sharing Taoiseach is a deal breaker for FG
 
The rotating taoiseach shite is bananas.

It's so fecking funny. From bitter civil war opponents to co-parents. They're both terrified of any change so they keep each other close because what lies in the shadows is even more terrifying than the in laws. A literal better the devil... scenario. Makes a mockery of their faux rivalry.
 
Proportional Representation generally does involve coalition governments. It's hard to see ROI ever having an outright majority single party government and especially now as FF/FG are in coalition people find it difficult to tell them apart.

They're essentially the same party at this stage. There were pretty much the same amount of transfers between FF & FG candidates as there were between candidates of each party.

They should just merge back together and be done with it.
 
They're essentially the same party at this stage. There were pretty much the same amount of transfers between FF & FG candidates as there were between candidates of each party.

They should just merge back together and be done with it.
They'd lose votes, they won't until they have to.
 
It'll be the Independent Ireland lads. Nailed on.

Apparently not sharing Taoiseach is a deal breaker for FG
I'd say that was more relevant when they were expected to finish 5 or 6 behind FF. With 10 less i just dont think they have a leg to stand on. They had an agreement before election that if the gap was 9 or more they wouldn't share, so yeah, dont have a leg to stand on.
They'll want more than a majority of 3 so they'll need more than Independent Ireland.
 
Fantastic, thanks. I've always associated Friedman with Thatcher and aggressive free market economics without ever bothering to read much about him, it seems quite a depressing thought that we could be in a state whereby Friedman might seem moderate.
No worries. The lines that get me from that Friedman quote is " It is essential, however, that the performance of this function involve the minimum of interference with the market...There is no justification for subsidizing farmers as farmers rather than because they are poor."

Like with our subsidised farmers and the global banking bailout, our current version is only letting the markets dictate events if it doesn't disrupt the concrete hierarchy.
 
I'd say that was more relevant when they were expected to finish 5 or 6 behind FF. With 10 less i just dont think they have a leg to stand on. They had an agreement before election that if the gap was 9 or more they wouldn't share, so yeah, dont have a leg to stand on.
They'll want more than a majority of 3 so they'll need more than Independent Ireland.

I hope you're right because the bitterness it will cause might upset the cosy alliance.

I'm sure they'd feel safer with a few more like minded independents than the SDs. We shall see.
 
Does anyone else get irrationally annoyed by footage of TDs (usually middles aged men in suits) being hoisted up on shoulders, punching the air, with big red, sweaty, euphoric heads on them whenever they win a seat? It's your job ffs. You don't see bus drivers behaving like that when they get the 46A to Busaras on time.
 
Does anyone else get irrationally annoyed by footage of TDs (usually middles aged men in suits) being hoisted up on shoulders, punching the air, with big red, sweaty, euphoric heads on them whenever they win a seat? It's your job ffs. You don't see bus drivers behaving like that when they get the 46A to Busaras on time.

It's hilarious. Last night in Sligo they hoisted up Scanlon, I posted his picture on the previous page, an overweight 70+ year old and all roaring. And in the same sentence announcing Scanlon, after a a long pause for the roaring, they announced Marian Harkin, whose friends and family clapped politely. Men are idiots.
 
I hope you're right because the bitterness it will cause might upset the cosy alliance.

I'm sure they'd feel safer with a few more like minded independents than the SDs. We shall see.
They're used to dealing with parties like the SD's (aren't a bunch of them ex FF?) and seem very keen on Labour. They'd love to grab one of them. Labour and Social Democrats are a lot less enthusiastic. The lessons are too obvious, their support too limited to survive a coalition with FFG. One or both might wind up in because the actual politicians will be ambitious and want to be in power. Few independents seems a safer bet, maybe bring O'Gorman back and finish off the greens.
 
It's hilarious. Last night in Sligo they hoisted up Scanlon, I posted his picture on the previous page, an overweight 70+ year old and all roaring. And in the same sentence announcing Scanlon, after a a long pause for the roaring, they announced Marian Harkin, whose friends and family clapped politely. Men are idiots.

It's so grim. And I've never sure who's annoying me more, in the moment. The hoisters or the hoistees.
 
They're used to dealing with parties like the SD's (aren't a bunch of them ex FF?) and seem very keen on Labour. They'd love to grab one of them. Labour and Social Democrats are a lot less enthusiastic. The lessons are too obvious, their support too limited to survive a coalition with FFG. One or both might wind up in because the actual politicians will be ambitious and want to be in power. Few independents seems a safer bet, maybe bring O'Gorman back and finish off the greens.
:lol: The thoughts of O Gorman sitting alone surrounded by FFG, Independent Ireland and a few similarly gammon headed Healy Rae types is too cruel to consider.
 
Does anyone else get irrationally annoyed by footage of TDs (usually middles aged men in suits) being hoisted up on shoulders, punching the air, with big red, sweaty, euphoric heads on them whenever they win a seat? It's your job ffs. You don't see bus drivers behaving like that when they get the 46A to Busaras on time.

You'd celebrate too if your buddy got a seat at the trough and he told you, you could all lie under it and pick up the scraps.
 
Does anyone else get irrationally annoyed by footage of TDs (usually middles aged men in suits) being hoisted up on shoulders, punching the air, with big red, sweaty, euphoric heads on them whenever they win a seat? It's your job ffs. You don't see bus drivers behaving like that when they get the 46A to Busaras on time.
"Hup ya baiya, Johnny!"

It's an outpouring of joy for Johnny's expenses and brown envelopes for the boys.
 
You'd celebrate too if your buddy got a seat at the trough and he told you, you could all lie under it and pick up the scraps.

That's well beneath Pogue. He didn't even vote. He must find elections awful tawdry affairs. He laments the old system, where the man with the worst case of gout was king until it killed him.