Irish Politics

Sinn Féin can't really get into government though can they. They can become the biggest party, but all of the other main parties have said they won't go into government with them and they won't get an overall majority. I reckon we'd see a Fine Gael/ Fianna Fáil coalition before any of FG/FF/Labour get into bed with Sinn Féin.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
I would hope that the people of the Irish Republic see SF for what they really are.
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Many do but the other political parties are so useless it's playing straight into SF's hands. Although there has been a noticeable circling of the wagons and attacks on SF since that opinion poll.

Could be too little too late mind, once the next election rolls around people will have long forgotten that they facilitated the abuse of children and it isn't hard to find a slew of topics to come up with populace soundbites on at the moment to distract the voters.
 
Eyepopper said:
Many do but the other political parties are so useless it's playing straight into SF's hands. Although there has been a noticeable circling of the wagons and attacks on SF since that opinion poll.

Could be too little too late mind, once the next election rolls around people will have long forgotten that they facilitated the abuse of children and it isn't hard to find a slew of topics to come up with populace soundbites on at the moment to distract the voters.
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Sounds so similar to what happens in Northern Ireland.

I can't believe so many people would blindly vote for a party which is the political wing of a group who have hurt the Island of Ireland so much.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
Sounds so similar to what happens in Northern Ireland.

I can't believe so many people would blindly vote for a party which is the political wing of a group who have hurt the Island of Ireland so much.
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Same way they vote for others - and I'm not being smart.. our choices are:
FF - who bankrupted the country
FG - who raped the country so they'd get a pat on the head
Labour - who abandoned everything they said they stood for about 20 seconds after they got into power

and lastly SF - who in spite of the historic ties to the IRA (I think most people don't see that in itself as a major problem) don't have much recent political baggage in the republic and get to spend all their time telling people what they want to hear.

I actually don't think people realise the degree to which SF were/are involved in criminal activity in the south.

To put some sort of context on it, in terms of FG/Lab we're talking about a government who thought they'd get away with taking free medical care from disabled children.... its not hard to present yourself as an alternative.

I honestly don't know how the next election will go, but if there's a rainbow coalition, or some combination involving SF or a group of independents, I expect the next government to last about 18 months at best.
 
Is it true that the three main parties in the South have said that they won't work with SF in government?

I remember reading on another forum how someone who had a political interest in the south was disappointed when Labour sided with FG, mainly because he thought that if Labour opposed the government then they could kill off FF, this was before the more recent rise of the Shinners down south.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
Is it true that the three main parties in the South have said that they won't work with SF in government?
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Yeah but I'd take that with a HUGE pinch of salt, a truckload in fact.

I remember reading on another forum how someone who had a political interest in the south was disappointed when Labour sided with FG, mainly because he thought that if Labour opposed the government then they could kill off FF, this was before the more recent rise of the Shinners down south.
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I voted Labour last time simply because FF were sure to be screwed, FG were sure to win and I, like many others I suspect, hoped that having Labour in by their side might keep them some way honest... but labour have literally abandoned every single pre election promise they ran on and just let FG get on with it... Labour will be finished at the next election.
 
Eyepopper said:
Yeah but I'd take that with a HUGE pinch of salt, a truckload in fact.



I voted Labour last time simply because FF were sure to be screwed, FG were sure to win and I, like many others I suspect, hoped that having Labour in by their side might keep them some way honest... but labour have literally abandoned every single pre election promise they ran on and just let FG get on with it... Labour will be finished at the next election.
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And that will be a real shame, especially if it works to the favour of SF, a party who traditionally gain most of their voters from Working Class areas, I would imagine that WC areas in Dublin and other locations throughout the South is where SF gets most of their voter base from? And could capitalise on the collapse of Labour in those areas?
 
Still don't think they'll end up in government.

FG/Labour have been seriously damaged but a lot of that was self-inflicted through being spectacularly inept this year (along with the natural reaction to their austerity policy).

If they reduce their more stupid errors and the economy keeps improving then I still think FG will lead the next government.

SF still have too much baggage for what is traditionally a very conservative electorate. It's one thing to say you'd support them in an opinion poll, it's another to actually vote for them in a general election. Plus a certain amount of that is bound to be an anti-government vote rather than a pro-Sinn Fein one, as it likely is with the large poll numbers for independents atm.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
And that will be a real shame, especially if it works to the favour of SF, a party who traditionally gain most of their voters from Working Class areas, I would imagine that WC areas in Dublin and other locations throughout the South is where SF gets most of their voter base from? And could capitalise on the collapse of Labour in those areas?
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Yep thats spot on.

The trouble is what they say is often dead right, morally and from every other angle.

Talk is cheap though.... they also say Gerry was never in the IRA... action will be quite different I imagine.
 
And poor aul' Jackie Healy-Rae is after hitting the road. He wasn't the worst of them now either in fairness and may god give him the bed of heaven.

Take her handy Jackie.
turf
 
Ramshock said:
What the feck is it with people in Ireland who are put in charge of looking after the weak and vulnerable? How did we get so many evil bastards?
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I don't know man, it's depressing and maddening at the same time. Some of the footage there is absolutely appalling and their actions are nothing short of assault. But just like most of our state organisations, those at the top of the HSE who can make a difference are wholly incompetent.
 
Have only watched a snippet of it because, to be quite honest, I don't want to upset myself.

The HSE should have the doors locked tomorrow, this is an organisation with a ban on hiring front line staff but who increased middle managers by 10% in the last 12 months. A political poison chalice (which is why Kenny handed it to Leo, as an aside) which fails both the people working for it and the people in its care.

All those responsible will now be put on extended leave with full pay until an 'enquiry' gets around the public sector union and we're told how regrettable it was and how much pressure the carers were under.
 
Yeah, the HSE is fecked. Currently going through an unnecessarily complicated re-shuffle which seems primarily intended to give the illusion of progress whilst ensuring that every one of those admin bods (whose jobs are protected by the Croke Park agreement) has a nice new title to print on their business cards.

Meanwhile, Irish trained doctors and nurses are tripping over themselves to get the feck out of dodge.
 
I think instead of must have fetac level 5 and a load more stuff like that on the ads looking for carers they should say must not be a monster. I do have a lot of dealings with HSE ran set ups like that of that home last night and I don't know how many times my wife and myself have said to ourselves after coming out of an appointment or after having a house call how in the hell did that person get that job with their attitude, I could count on one hand the ones where we felt yep, they genuinely care and are there to help, with the vast majority of them you're just a fecking number to them. Getting back to that horror show last night I found it hard to sleep after watching it. It would nearly make a lad want to sell up, pack his bags and just get the feck out of this country.
 
Ramshock said:
What the feck is it with people in Ireland who are put in charge of looking after the weak and vulnerable? How did we get so many evil bastards?
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That's what I was wondering too. They can't all be born naturally evil bastards. It's like these people surrender all sense of personal morality once they become part of an institution. They supress their own instinct for what is right/wrong and pass responsibility for their own actions onto the institution (which in itself is guilty of allowing this to happen). I wonder if this happens more often in Ireland?
 
spontaneus1 said:
Garda saying 30K +, may as well say there was more than 10 people at the protests today, pictures make it clear it was far more than 30,000.
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It's routine for the guards to play down numbers at a protest.

It certainly seemed like there were far more than 30k anyway. The place was packed.

I hear Glen Hansard got up on stage to sing The Auld Triangle. Thankfully, I wasn't in the vicinity at the time.
 
Reds-of-Ulster said:
And that will be a real shame
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On Labour - No, the shame is that they have sullied the name of labour politics and should be sued under some manner of the trade descriptions act.

On the Sinners - Sinn Fein have the exact same history, tied to the gun as both, our main parties, and the damage to the island line you used is bewildering. This is a long term 'damaged' island and while SF were hugely involved in the process it's slightly disingenuous to blame them. The reason they grew strong both in the early 1900's and more recently was because there they stood facing atrocities by the British Military. Context is very important lest one was to sound biased.

And the nascent state of the Republic is not yet mature, the political landscape is still being shaped. For the first time ever instead of a blue/green shirt there is a left/right dichotomy forming and as all the previous attempts at left wing parties failed then we need to deal with what is left, Sinn Fein.

There are lots of urban left wingers in Ireland that Sinn Fein never captured (like myself) because of what seemed like a preoccupation with a 32 county republic, and while it's a nice ideal, it's no longer the solution and definitely not a manifesto for governing the island, and especially the disenfranchised urban working classes.

As they broaden their scope they are going to gain in popularity, and in my opinion deserve a chance.

As for nobody going into power with them, it's a nonsense, of course they will jump at the chance for power.

This is in my opinion only the start of a process that will see SF become the main party, and they will be diluted by large numbers joining and more importantly I see the centre right elements of FF and FG joining at some point and the lefties from those parties joining a SF with a wider scope than they are now perceived to have. I think it will be a much healthier political arena with the right subjucts being discussed.

Say what you will about Sinn Fein, they are a player in what is the most open, informed, frank and relevant political dialogue I have witnessed in the mainstream media.

And on the sexual abuse, it's a legal matter and with evidence all involved should be punished, but the reality is that those calling for legal action now weren't quite so vociferous when it was the clergy and not SF. The idea that sexual abuse can be jaundiced by one's politics is truly sickening. And that is levelled at all of them.
 
Eyepopper said:
Have only watched a snippet of it because, to be quite honest, I don't want to upset myself.

The HSE should have the doors locked tomorrow, this is an organisation with a ban on hiring front line staff but who increased middle managers by 10% in the last 12 months. A political poison chalice (which is why Kenny handed it to Leo, as an aside) which fails both the people working for it and the people in its care.

All those responsible will now be put on extended leave with full pay until an 'enquiry' gets around the public sector union and we're told how regrettable it was and how much pressure the carers were under.
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Saw a tiny piece on the news, really disturbing.
 
moses said:
On Labour - No, the shame is that they have sullied the name of labour politics and should be sued under some manner of the trade descriptions act.

On the Sinners - Sinn Fein have the exact same history, tied to the gun as both, our main parties, and the damage to the island line you used is bewildering. This is a long term 'damaged' island and while SF were hugely involved in the process it's slightly disingenuous to blame them. The reason they grew strong both in the early 1900's and more recently was because there they stood facing atrocities by the British Military. Context is very important lest one was to sound biased.

And the nascent state of the Republic is not yet mature, the political landscape is still being shaped. For the first time ever instead of a blue/green shirt there is a left/right dichotomy forming and as all the previous attempts at left wing parties failed then we need to deal with what is left, Sinn Fein.

There are lots of urban left wingers in Ireland that Sinn Fein never captured (like myself) because of what seemed like a preoccupation with a 32 county republic, and while it's a nice ideal, it's no longer the solution and definitely not a manifesto for governing the island, and especially the disenfranchised urban working classes.

As they broaden their scope they are going to gain in popularity, and in my opinion deserve a chance.

As for nobody going into power with them, it's a nonsense, of course they will jump at the chance for power.

This is in my opinion only the start of a process that will see SF become the main party, and they will be diluted by large numbers joining and more importantly I see the centre right elements of FF and FG joining at some point and the lefties from those parties joining a SF with a wider scope than they are now perceived to have. I think it will be a much healthier political arena with the right subjucts being discussed.

Say what you will about Sinn Fein, they are a player in what is the most open, informed, frank and relevant political dialogue I have witnessed in the mainstream media.

And on the sexual abuse, it's a legal matter and with evidence all involved should be punished, but the reality is that those calling for legal action now weren't quite so vociferous when it was the clergy and not SF. The idea that sexual abuse can be jaundiced by one's politics is truly sickening. And that is levelled at all of them.
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SF are growing, not necessarily because of their own ideas but the fact that the others are such imbeciles and SF can stand around the sidelines pointing out whats wrong. Id be genuinely interested to see how theyd cope in the same situations.

I do think that the whole Gerry thing doesnt help them, he should step down if they really want the push to the top. Mary Lou would take them further. Gerry is not only tainted by IRA history but the sexual cases, what did he know what didnt he know, plus the whole thing with his brother.

oh and Sinead O'Connor has now joined the party. Thats going to work out well for them ;)
 
golden_blunder said:
SF are growing, not necessarily because of their own ideas but the fact that the others are such imbeciles and SF can stand around the sidelines pointing out whats wrong. Id be genuinely interested to see how theyd cope in the same situations.

I do think that the whole Gerry thing doesnt help them, he should step down if they really want the push to the top. Mary Lou would take them further. Gerry is not only tainted by IRA history but the sexual cases, what did he know what didnt he know, plus the whole thing with his brother.

oh and Sinead O'Connor has now joined the party. Thats going to work out well for them ;)
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I would argue it is, as they are the only left wing party in the country. But I do agree that the left wing vote falls on them by default.

We all rightly giggle at Sinead but that is a big thing for them, the middle classes baulk at the Sinners, but people like Sinead could do a lot to make it 'OK' to vote SF.
 
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