Irish Politics

Pogue Mahone said:
That's for a very clear and significant gain, though.
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sullydnl said:
Very different context though in that there's now a massive amount of negative attention on the Gardaí and their relationship with the government.

If I was a politician I'd want to stay as far away from the guards as I could right now, nevermind involving them in something that would almost certainly bring down my government if it came out.

I certainly wouldn't take that risk just so I could make a martyr out of Paul Murphy. Though maybe they are that stupid, who knows?
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You think there's nothing to be gained politically from trying to undermine the most vocal within the water protests? I think IW is the single biggest error in judgement this govt has made and, much like the protests over property tax did, they thought that if they weather the storm, and put out fires where needed people would eventually shut up and pay.

The question over Wallace is why did Shatter even know? Wallace wasn't charged, or even arrested so how and why did that info end up on the minister for justices desk?

Going back to Tallaght, the entire investigation, all the resources and arrests are on foot of a complaint made by Joan Burton, of any of us made that complaint would there have been an entire unit dedicated to investigating it?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Don't think arresting PM has undermined him at all. Quite the opposite.
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Him and his immediate circle, but I would think a fair few of the more moderate involved in protesting will be discouraged by seeing van loads of police turn up at peoples houses at 7am. I think most wouldn't want to be associated with the form of protest they have spearheaded either.

This is actually a really well balanced piece I think.

https://politicsforpeasants.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/39/

The whole thing is a giant mess, and the country will suffer while these twats (on both sides) continue their point scoring exercise.
 
Eyepopper said:
Him and his immediate circle, but I would think a fair few of the more moderate involved in protesting will be discouraged by seeing van loads of police turn up at peoples houses at 7am. I think most wouldn't want to be associated with the form of protest they have spearheaded either.

This is actually a really well balanced piece I think.

https://politicsforpeasants.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/39/

The whole thing is a giant mess, and the country will suffer while these twats (on both sides) continue their point scoring exercise.
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It might have undermined the protests in the short term, but it's basically secured Murphys future as an anti establishment TD.

I've met him a good few times and I quite like him as a bloke. His politics are a bit wishy washy for me in the sense that he will compromise (or at least associates politically with others that do) on key issues such as the bailout and he has shied away from criticizing the system that is capitalism in public.
 
It's all about the short term jakey, the first IW bills will be out soon enough.

Murphy and his ilk have done massive damage to the campaign in order to promote his own profile.

They have done what happens to most protest movements, introduced a split and weakened the cause as a result. He could be a lovely bloke, but I don't give a shite, I'd rather he was a complete wanker but an effective politician.

Anyone who thinks roaring personal abuse at people or physically threatening them is a legitimate form of protest is an idiot in my opinion.
 
Eyepopper said:
Him and his immediate circle, but I would think a fair few of the more moderate involved in protesting will be discouraged by seeing van loads of police turn up at peoples houses at 7am. I think most wouldn't want to be associated with the form of protest they have spearheaded either.

This is actually a really well balanced piece I think.

https://politicsforpeasants.wordpress.com/2015/02/13/39/

The whole thing is a giant mess, and the country will suffer while these twats (on both sides) continue their point scoring exercise.
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Yep. That piece is spot on.
 
Eyepopper said:
It's all about the short term jakey, the first IW bills will be out soon enough.

Murphy and his ilk have done massive damage to the campaign in order to promote his own profile.

They have done what happens to most protest movements, introduced a split and weakened the cause as a result. He could be a lovely bloke, but I don't give a shite, I'd rather he was a complete wanker but an effective politician.

Anyone who thinks roaring personal abuse at people or physically threatening them is a legitimate form of protest is an idiot in my opinion.
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That's what I'm getting at. He's being very effective if it's his own career and party he's looking after.
 
jakec said:
That's what I'm getting at. He's being very effective if it's his own career and party he's looking after.
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Depends on what he wants from his 'career'. A guaranteed backbench seat while never achieving anything, drawing a massive salary (no idea whether he pockets it all or not) and a nice pension.

I might start roaring at people myself.
 
Eyepopper said:
Depends on what he wants from his 'career'. A guaranteed backbench seat while never achieving anything, drawing a massive salary (no idea whether he pockets it all or not) and a nice pension.

I might start roaring at people myself.
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That's my point.

AFAIK he draws the average industrial wage, but I'm not 100% sure.

I'd hold him to a higher regard then I would PSF or the SWP, but lets see how he deals with all of this.
 
I think today's court case kind of puts the political policing part to bed, at least in respect of the five sent down today (whatever one thinks about Paul Murphy's arrest).

These five were given a clear court order to stay 20 metres or whatever from the guys installing the meters, and ignored it. They get arrested for it, and are still offered the chance to enter into a bond and agree, basically, not to do it again. And they refuse.

And now we have more idiots sitting on O'Connell bridge, blocking traffic as part of their cause for their fellow idiots.

I despair at society sometimes. The photos of people holding banners saying that 'you can't tax a God-given right' - I mean, are these people serious?

I wish I owned a snow plough.
 
It does bug me that what is essentially a fairly innocuous tax is getting the public the most exercised when the really damaging effects of austerity (the absolute shambles in the health service and punitive rates of income tax) seems to be going below the radar. Still, it's become symbolic, I suppose.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It does bug me that what is essentially a fairly innocuous tax is getting the public the most exercised when the really damaging effects of austerity (the absolute shambles in the health service and punitive rates of income tax) seems to be going below the radar. Still, it's become symbolic, I suppose.
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The part that bugged me the most over the last while was when Primetime did those reports on the number of people on hospital beds around the country, and Mary Harney sat there and criticised the government for not focusing and spending on the health service. I felt like screaming at her, 'You were the fecking Minister for Health when we had money, and you've left this shite after you, left the next government with no money, and you sit there saying that!!!'

Annoyed me no end. Worse still is that people just seemed to nod their heads in agreement.

Opposition government in Ireland is the easiest job in the world. You may as well be sitting on a bar stool in any pub in the country as you're effectively saying the same stuff as every old man in every one-horse town.
 
Nah, it's a fair point. Being in opposition in general is easy enough. Sitting on the sidelines nit-picking, mud-slinging and telling everyone you could do a better job, no worries.

When the chips are down, though, it's an absolute piece of piss. Non-stop opportunities for tub-thumbing rhetoric about how we're all doomed and it's all the other political parties fault. Right up until the point they actually win an election and have to deliver on all those promises, when their job becomes hard and everyone else is on easy street.

Can't fecking stand politicians. All of them. What kind of cnut becomes a politician anyway?
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
It does bug me that what is essentially a fairly innocuous tax is getting the public the most exercised when the really damaging effects of austerity (the absolute shambles in the health service and punitive rates of income tax) seems to be going below the radar. Still, it's become symbolic, I suppose.
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It is symbolic, and that's the way a lot change and protest occurs. The more complex the issue the more people disengage. The interesting development is the explicit left / right dichotomy that is happening.
 
Gee Male said:
I think today's court case kind of puts the political policing part to bed, at least in respect of the five sent down today (whatever one thinks about Paul Murphy's arrest).

These five were given a clear court order to stay 20 metres or whatever from the guys installing the meters, and ignored it. They get arrested for it, and are still offered the chance to enter into a bond and agree, basically, not to do it again. And they refuse.

And now we have more idiots sitting on O'Connell bridge, blocking traffic as part of their cause for their fellow idiots.

I despair at society sometimes. The photos of people holding banners saying that 'you can't tax a God-given right' - I mean, are these people serious?

I wish I owned a snow plough.
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Today's sentences haven't put political policing to bed? The current policy is heading towards Thatcherism. All today's sentences did is 'prove' to people the law is not enforced consistently.

If those idiots were aggressive, you'd call them thugs, what they are doing is a peaceful protest, which if you make impossible you will create a violent protest, as ever.

The idea that water shouldn't be paid for is silly, of course it is, but only a fool thinks that this is just about water.
 
moses said:
It is symbolic, and that's the way a lot change and protest occurs. The more complex the issue the more people disengage. The interesting development is the explicit left / right dichotomy that is happening.
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It's definitely new ground for a country with such a long history of centre-right domination. A pity that the newfound power on the left is going to such a disparate shower of messers. Absolutely no faith in them being able to run the country. Not that the present crew have made much of a fist of it.
 
Gee Male said:
I may be ranting. It's amazing what a delayed bus will do to a man.
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It's also amazing what generations of political disenfrachisemnent does to a community. I wouldn't follow a policy that allows West Tallaght develop a seige mentality. I grew up there, and was frequently amazed the place didn't descend to violence.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It's definitely new ground for a country with such a long history of centre-right domination. A pity that the newfound power on the left is going to such a disparate shower of messers. Absolutely no faith in them being able to run the country. Not that the present crew have made much of a fist of it.
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They are disparate because they are new. The suburban working class have never really had proper representation at the polling booth, so the trend of leftist voting will continue and spread unless something drastic happens.

Part of me feels the current government policy is to intimidate, discredit and marginalise the protestors as they have done for 20 years. But the difference is this is not only commies, students and dilettantes, it's very large swathes of the people, and it could get very nasty.
 
Currently on the way to Mountjoy to protest today's sentences.
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moses said:
They are disparate because they are new. The suburban working class have never really had proper representation at the polling booth, so the trend of leftist voting will continue and spread unless something drastic happens.

Part of me feels the current government policy is to intimidate, discredit and marginalise the protestors as they have done for 20 years. But the difference is this is not only commies, students and dilettantes, it's very large swathes of the people, and it could get very nasty.
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I'm sure that is the government's policy. That's what governments do to the opposition. Just like it's the policy of the opposition to undermine, discredit and destabilise the government. Rinse and repeat, swapping roles every few elections.

It's interesting that there's not been any kind of swing to the far right, as we saw in Greece. Something to be proud of?

EDIT: Ah. You mean protestors, not political parties. But yeah, I guess that's what all governments do to protestors too. Apart from those in countries less enlightened than Ireland, where the policing of these protests would be considerably harsher.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm sure that is the government's policy. That's what governments do to the opposition. Just like it's the policy of the opposition to undermine, discredit and destabilise the government. Rinse and repeat, swapping roles every few elections.

It's interesting that there's not been any kind of swing to the far right, as we saw in Greece. Something to be proud of?
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If you ask me it's a silly policy in this climate and appeasement would be a much easier option. Token appeasement would do.

We aren't inclined to the far left or the far right, in my opinion, this massive upsurge to the left is just the political landscape finding it's equilibrium. We are still a very very young democracy, in possibly it's defining era.

The protests that are causing such a stir are the tamest and least radical they could be and compared to the rest of the world are a walk in the park, which is why I can't understand the poking with a stick that seems to be happening, it's only accelerating the politicisation of the great unwashed.
 
moses said:
If you ask me it's a silly policy in this climate and appeasement would be a much easier option. Token appeasement would do.

We aren't inclined to the far left or the far right, in my opinion, this massive upsurge to the left is just the political landscape finding it's equilibrium. We are still a very very young democracy, in possibly it's defining era.

The protests that are causing such a stir are the tamest and least radical they could be and compared to the rest of the world are a walk in the park, which is why I can't understand the poking with a stick that seems to be happening, it's only accelerating the politicisation of the great unwashed.
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I guess that makes sense. Although I do worry that there's a vacuum waiting to be filled by an Irish UKIP, taking advantage of all the euroscepticism and barely concealed racism that is rife in Ireland these days. I can handle the rise of the far left (although am definitely not looking forward to them getting into power, for mainly selfish reasons) but it's the opposite extreme that really worries me.
 
I think (hope) our inevitable euroscepticism will take a very left wing stance. The centre right domination of Europe will become intertwined with Austerity.

On Irish racism, I'm not so sure it will ever boil over and in many cases it's just parochialism. I hope. Thankfully the things associated with far right parties, like organisation, don't appeal to us. I saw a fax by Nick Griffin to a load of racist cnuts in Limerick about 10 years ago, telling them the sort of white power (flags and jackboots) they were peddling would never take hold here. I was proud. The were actually called NSRUS (like Toys R Us, but for National Socialism). I had a bit of fun helping to get them shut down.
 
moses said:
I think (hope) our inevitable euroscepticism will take a very left wing stance. The centre right domination of Europe will become intertwined with Austerity.

On Irish racism, I'm not so sure it will ever boil over and in many cases it's just parochialism. I hope. Thankfully the things associated with far right parties, like organisation, don't appeal to us. I saw a fax by Nick Griffin to a load of racist cnuts in Limerick about 10 years ago, telling them the sort of white power (flags and jackboots) they were peddling would never take hold here. I was proud. The were actually called NSRUS (like Toys R Us, but for National Socialism). I had a bit of fun helping to get them shut down.
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:lol: wankers.
 
Enda was shameful, like a low level clerk found nicking a tenner.

They really should have provided mud for the other two and made it a proper freak show.
 
Anyone see the official figures or estimates re the numbers at the protest yesterday? Seems to be losing serious momentum at this stage? Anyone on here at it?
 
I know one of the jailed protesters quite well. Bernie has done some work with me in the past involving abortion rights.

Their idea of a hunger strike is ridiculous, and they want to start a liquid strike tomorrow as well.
 
Anne-ferris-e1425336951892.jpg


This is amazing if true. She lives 19.6 kilometres away from the Dáil so she only qualifies for a 9,000 euro travel allowance, to get around this she now takes a diversion that brings it up past the 25 kilometer threshold to qualify for an additional 16,000 euro
 
jakec said:
This is amazing if true. She lives 19.6 kilometres away from the Dáil so she only qualifies for a 9,000 euro travel allowance, to get around this she now takes a diversion that brings it up past the 25 kilometer threshold to qualify for an additional 16,000 euro
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Probably doesn't even bother showing up most days / weeks. You see footage from the dail and there's about half a dozen of them in there outside of leaders questions.
Who the feck needs 25k a year to get to and from work anyway? Who needs 9k for that matter?
 
Im hoping they get virtually no transfers.
So while their poll figures might be worrying in an election setting it wont be as problematic.

Dont know about others but i've always voted for just about everyone and anyone in order except sinn fein
 
jakec said:
Anne-ferris-e1425336951892.jpg


This is amazing if true. She lives 19.6 kilometres away from the Dáil so she only qualifies for a 9,000 euro travel allowance, to get around this she now takes a diversion that brings it up past the 25 kilometer threshold to qualify for an additional 16,000 euro
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And this is why I have absolutely no qualms in doing as many nixers as I possibly can.
 
Vincent Brown was quit funny last night.

Watching the chairman of Sligo Co Co trying to justify him and his county CEO heading to New York for Paddy's day at the taxpayers expense - networking with the IDA was the best he could muster - last time I checked there were IDA offices in Sligo.

Agree or disagree with ministers heading away - personally I think it should be limited to a small number going to highly strategic locations.

But county councillors, managers etc, basically local gombeens heading off is a complete waste of taxpayers money and is totally unjustifiable.

If only we had some sort of 'embassies' in these places to represent our interests!
 
Eyepopper said:
Vincent Brown was quit funny last night.

Watching the chairman of Sligo Co Co trying to justify him and his county CEO heading to New York for Paddy's day at the taxpayers expense - networking with the IDA was the best he could muster - last time I checked there were IDA offices in Sligo.

Agree or disagree with ministers heading away - personally I think it should be limited to a small number going to highly strategic locations.

But county councillors, managers etc, basically local gombeens heading off is a complete waste of taxpayers money and is totally unjustifiable.

If only we had some sort of 'embassies' in these places to represent our interests!
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Sigh ...
Its just a never ending stream of piss taking. I wonder do they even pretend they're not total bastards or are they just incompetent at lying / stealing too
 
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Pogue Mahone said:
I'm sure that is the government's policy. That's what governments do to the opposition. Just like it's the policy of the opposition to undermine, discredit and destabilise the government. Rinse and repeat, swapping roles every few elections.

It's interesting that there's not been any kind of swing to the far right, as we saw in Greece. Something to be proud of?

EDIT: Ah. You mean protestors, not political parties. But yeah, I guess that's what all governments do to protestors too. Apart from those in countries less enlightened than Ireland, where the policing of these protests would be considerably harsher.
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In Greece they are far left, not far right.
 
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