Ilkay Gündogan

Status
Not open for further replies.
Gol123 said:
No they didn't. Bayern refused to pay for him and both himself and Bayern waited out till his contract was up before leaving on a free. There was nothing Dortmund could do in the matter.

Their past transfers.

£32m for Gotze to their direct rivals. That was the buyout but still was a cheap clause to put in.

Kagawa for £12m to United was dirt cheap at the time.

They tried to sell Lewandowski to every top club in Europe at under £30m so he wouldn't go to Bayern on a free.
Click to expand...
Dortmund refused to sell lewandowski for 30mil odd to Bayern and chose to rather lose him for free next season. Not sure where you got the "Bayern refused to pay" bit.

Do you think they put the low 32mil clause on their own accord? Not sure you realise that Dortmund weren't strong financially like they are now. They couldn't pay their players high wages and we're forced to put release clauses in there and low ones at that. What club willingly puts a low clause?

Kagawa had a year left on his contract unless I'm mistaken.

Sensible decision isn't it considering the alternative is losing him to your biggest rivals for free?
 
Wasn't RVP on the last year of his contact when we paid £24m for him?

Regardless, it's a great addition to their team. I'm jealous.
 
KingMinger22 said:
Wasn't RVP on the last year of his contact when we paid £24m for him?

Regardless, it's a great addition to their team. I'm jealous.
Click to expand...
Nah wouldnt worry about it, genuinely. City's mob will make you believe he is Pogba's level, when in fact he is nowhere near. And they aint signing Pogba btw... ;)
 
@Gol123 @Varun

I'm sorry to chime in nit-picking.
  1. Bayern didn't offer €30m for Lewandowski. They offered something in the range of €10-15m.
  2. Bayern did not want Lewandowski to see out his contract. They wanted him right away. Heynckes in one of his last pressers even said Lewandowski will play for Bayern next season. In fact, Bayern was surprised that Dortmund pulled the negotiation plug in early summer.
  3. Had Dortmund not accepted Götze's demand of an exit clause of that sum, he hadn't extended his contract.
Back to Gündogan. Dortmund refused to accept United's low offer last summer and therefore I don't expect them to accept a low offer from City now. Besides, City have refused Wolfsburg's asking price for de Bruyne last summer but gave in in the end. That's common knowledge, also to Dortmund. I expect City to finally give in and accept a number of bonus payments for Gündogan to cover (partially or fully) the difference. Number of minutes played, assists/goals, City's runs in EPL, domestic cups, in European football, ... Similar to the contract for Kagawa and other players Dortmund have sold over the years.

According to sources I consider trustworthy, no negotiations between the clubs have been under way. It'll take some time until we hear if and to what the clubs have agreed on.
 
Last edited:
Weigl is more like a DLP, probably similar to Busquets in style, wheras Gündogan is a more technical box to box player.
 
do.ob said:
Weigl is more like a DLP, probably similar to Busquets in style, wheras Gündogan is a more technical box to box player.
Click to expand...

We really need that type ourselves..
 
I think its time we concede that we're not the top dogs any more especially if we end up out of the CL. The likes of Gundogan may well be out of our reach
 
devilish said:
I think its time we concede that we're not the top dogs any more especially if we end up out of the CL. The likes of Gundogan may well be out of our reach
Click to expand...
Depends on who wants him. Only clubs I think we can't compete with for sure are Real, Barca and Bayern. The likes of City with Pep + CL now is touch and go, wouldn't argue with someone who put them in the above list but it comes down to the player in question imo and isn't as clear cut as these 3.
 
Varun said:
Depends on who wants him. Only clubs I think we can't compete with for sure are Real, Barca and Bayern. The likes of City with Pep + CL now is touch and go, wouldn't argue with someone who put them in the above list but it comes down to the player in question imo and isn't as clear cut as these 3.
Click to expand...

If we're out of the CL then I would dare saying that Shitty and PSG are, at this point, more attractive then we are. They have a better side and I doubt we can win a salary/fee bidding war against them. If Gundogan is only interested in money then you can probably add Chelsea to the list. If he's interested in playing in a CL side year in year out then the likes of Juventus and Athletico are in a much better shape then we are.

Transfers are sealed in summer but most of the courting is done during Spring. The fact that we're in shambles and we're refusing to spill out what our next year's plan are puts us in a disadvantage.
 
devilish said:
I think its time we concede that we're not the top dogs any more especially if we end up out of the CL. The likes of Gundogan may well be out of our reach
Click to expand...

If the Berta reports were true, we may not have too much of a problem attracting real talent (established or not).
 
VP89 said:
If the Berta reports were true, we may not have too much of a problem attracting real talent (established or not).
Click to expand...

I am not saying that we would be reduced to buy players from the Championship because no one would want to join us. I am only saying that we won't be the transfer market top dogs for a while until we're back on our feet. Many clubs had passed from this situation at different periods of their history. For example Beckham didn't even want to discuss terms with Barcelona despite them offering more money then Real.

However its time we start acting smart. Lets do the groundwork by signing the right people and let them start their work NOW
 
devilish said:
If we're out of the CL then I would dare saying that Shitty and PSG are, at this point, more attractive then we are. They have a better side and I doubt we can win a salary/fee bidding war against them. If Gundogan is only interested in money then you can probably add Chelsea to the list. If he's interested in playing in a CL side year in year out then the likes of Juventus and Athletico are in a much better shape then we are.

Transfers are sealed in summer but most of the courting is done during Spring. The fact that we're in shambles and we're refusing to spill out what our next year's plan are puts us in a disadvantage.
Click to expand...
Anyone who goes to PSG to play in that terribly uncompetitive league isn't a player I would mind not getting. Re city, as I said, I wouldn't argue against anyone that holds the view.

How's the financial situation with Juve now? Can they compete in terms of wages? Ditto Atletico.
 
Mainoldo said:
How would you discribe both?

I said I would prefer Weigl and didn't say they played the same.
Click to expand...
It seems I didn't make my point clear, and perhaps I should have posted it to the other poster. The question was who's better, Weigl or Gündogan, and I think that's impossible to tell if you're comparing different types of midfielders (deep-lying playmaker vs box-to-box midfielder).
 
Varun said:
Anyone who goes to PSG to play in that terribly uncompetitive league isn't a player I would mind not getting. Re city, as I said, I wouldn't argue against anyone that holds the view.

How's the financial situation with Juve now? Can they compete in terms of wages? Ditto Atletico.
Click to expand...

I think that many of you have a romantic version of how players view football. Ok most would be supporters of X and Y club and given the choice they would rather play for them then lets say PSG. Totti for example turned out a dream move to Real to stay with Roma Others would probably prefer being paid slightly less and play in a more prestigious club with a good chance of winning trophies. Hence why Dybala went to Juventus instead to lets say PSG.

However for most players football is a career. Also most of them do not support Manchester United and has a much less romantic view of how we see the club. For them Manchester United are a big club (like many others) who is located in a very wet and boring city and which is swiftly descending into a sleeping giant status. The physical intensive EPL doesn't act as an attraction either (more chances of ruining one's career).

That's why we need to act quickly before most available players had committed themselves elsewhere. For example by appointing Mourinho + Berta we would send the message that United are back to business and there is real intention of returning to the pinnacle of football.
 
devilish said:
I think its time we concede that we're not the top dogs any more especially if we end up out of the CL. The likes of Gundogan may well be out of our reach
Click to expand...

This is sad but unfortunately true at the moment. However, we get the right manager and that bumps us up a notch again
 
Crossie said:
It seems I didn't make my point clear, and perhaps I should have posted it to the other poster. The question was who's better, Weigl or Gündogan, and I think that's impossible to tell if you're comparing different types of midfielders (deep-lying playmaker vs box-to-box midfielder).
Click to expand...

Well if Mourinho for instance is our manager he'll play with two centre mids and unless your a box to box number 10 we need a deep line playmaker. Carrick being on his last legs. I've never witnessed this box to box Gundogan to be honest.
 
Mainoldo said:
Well if Mourinho for instance is our manager he'll play with two centre mids and unless your a box to box number 10 we need a deep line playmaker. Carrick being on his last legs. I've never witnessed this box to box Gundogan to be honest.
Click to expand...
If you consider Gündogan to be a DLP, we'd apparently have different definitions of a DLP. As stated above though, my point I was trying to make was about the questionable comparability of two players of different types, not whether or not United could use one or both. :)
 
devilish said:
I think that many of you have a romantic version of how players view football. Ok most would be supporters of X and Y club and given the choice they would rather play for them then lets say PSG. Totti for example turned out a dream move to Real to stay with Roma Others would probably prefer being paid slightly less and play in a more prestigious club with a good chance of winning trophies. Hence why Dybala went to Juventus instead to lets say PSG.

However for most players football is a career. Also most of them do not support Manchester United and has a much less romantic view of how we see the club. For them Manchester United are a big club (like many others) who is located in a very wet and boring city and which is swiftly descending into a sleeping giant status. The physical intensive EPL doesn't act as an attraction either (more chances of ruining one's career).

That's why we need to act quickly before most available players had committed themselves elsewhere. For example by appointing Mourinho + Berta we would send the message that United are back to business and there is real intention of returning to the pinnacle of football.
Click to expand...
The financial package PSG offer can be matched or atleast come close to by a number of clubs in the world now, not just us. I'm not expecting them to be fans or be enamored by us a club. Simple thing is, you can earn as much by playing at other clubs in much better leagues. A top player should go for it.

I agree with what you say though. I said something in another thread today which fits here. We are increasingly becoming( if we aren't already) a very poorly run club from a footballing POV. It's an absolute mess. A manager like LVG surviving the end of last year period at a club which considers itself among the top dogs in world football is absolutely bonkers. We could have easily sealed top 4 by getting someone like Mourinho in, instead we have stuck by him and become a laughing stock.
 
Varun said:
The financial package PSG offer can be matched or atleast come close to by a number of clubs in the world now, not just us. I'm not expecting them to be fans or be enamored by us a club. Simple thing is, you can earn as much by playing at other clubs in much better leagues. A top player should go for it.

I agree with what you say though. I said something in another thread today which fits here. We are increasingly becoming( if we aren't already) a very poorly run club from a footballing POV. It's an absolute mess. A manager like LVG surviving the end of last year period at a club which considers itself among the top dogs in world football is absolutely bonkers. We could have easily sealed top 4 by getting someone like Mourinho in, instead we have stuck by him and become a laughing stock.
Click to expand...

And I said this in another thread a few months ago...like it or not, because of the way our club has been run since SAF left, we are fast becoming the noisy neighbours now.
Gundogan would have been perfect for us.
 
ravi2 said:
And I said this in another thread a few months ago...like it or not, because of the way our club has been run since SAF left, we are fast becoming the noisy neighbours now.
Click to expand...

Except we're not even very noisy.

We're more like those weird neighbours that you hardly ever see coming and going and keep their curtains drawn the whole time. The other Manchester clubs probably suspect we're on the Witness Protection Programme or something.
 
devilish said:
Transfers are sealed in summer but most of the courting is done during Spring. The fact that we're in shambles and we're refusing to spill out what our next year's plan are puts us in a disadvantage.
Click to expand...
If your manager next season is either LvG or Giggs, I'm not sure the situation would be different. I agree though that a manager like Mourinho or another brand name would work wonders in the transfer market.
 
Sir A1ex said:
Except we're not even very noisy.

We're more like those weird neighbours that you hardly ever see coming and going and keep their curtains drawn the whole time. The other Manchester clubs probably suspect we're on the Witness Protection Programme or something.
Click to expand...

We can't even make some proper noise.:(
 
Sir A1ex said:
Except we're not even very noisy.

We're more like those weird neighbours that you hardly ever see coming and going and keep their curtains drawn the whole time. The other Manchester clubs probably suspect we're on the Witness Protection Programme or something.
Click to expand...

JPRouve said:
We can't even make some proper noise.:(
Click to expand...

TBF, our away fans are a spirited bunch who make a fair bit of noise :)

Getting back to Gundogan, letting a player like him go to city can prove as critical an error as letting players like Silva and Aguero go to City... Gundogan is exactly what we have needed in the midfield for a very long time.

We should have snatched Modric before Madrid did as well but that's just my opinion.
 
ravi2 said:
TBF, our away fans are a spirited bunch who make a fair bit of noise :)

Getting back to Gundogan, letting a player like him go to city can prove as critical an error as letting players like Silva and Aguero go to City... Gundogan is exactly what we have needed in the midfield for a very long time.

We should have snatched Modric before Madrid did as well but that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

You talk about error as if the player can't make the choice of Man city and Tottenham wanted to sell abroad.
 
Varun said:
The financial package PSG offer can be matched or atleast come close to by a number of clubs in the world now, not just us. I'm not expecting them to be fans or be enamored by us a club. Simple thing is, you can earn as much by playing at other clubs in much better leagues. A top player should go for it.

I agree with what you say though. I said something in another thread today which fits here. We are increasingly becoming( if we aren't already) a very poorly run club from a footballing POV. It's an absolute mess. A manager like LVG surviving the end of last year period at a club which considers itself among the top dogs in world football is absolutely bonkers. We could have easily sealed top 4 by getting someone like Mourinho in, instead we have stuck by him and become a laughing stock.
Click to expand...

No one knows that.

See it from lets say Marco Verratti's view. He's a Juventus fan and yet when he moved clubs, Juventus weren't interested. At PSG he could earn more money he could earn in Italy for far less pressure + he would be playing in the CL year in year out. He would also be living in a beautiful city with some of the best cuisine/nightlife in the world and he would be hours car ride away from his own nation. The league is not excessively physical (which means that his career will probably be longer there then in the EPL) and there are some perks which aren't available in the EPL like for example a month long Winter break. Can you blame him for opting for PSG instead of lets say Manchester United?

A player like Verratti may be intrigued by the prospect of working with Mourinho and compatriot Berta. After all the Portuguese is a living legend for the Serie A and Berta is a big name there. However don't expect that United would be able to attract him when they are in the mess they are currently in especially if we replace LVG with lets say Giggs and Gary Neville.
 
JPRouve said:
You talk about error as if the player can't make the choice of Man city and Tottenham wanted to sell abroad.
Click to expand...

Tottenham preferred to sell abroad, but modric was available for around around €40m...we just didn't want to pay it.
We also didnt think Aguero or Hazard was worth the price quoted and they went to other teams as well.
 
ravi2 said:
Tottenham preferred to sell abroad, but modric was available for around around €40m...we just didn't want to pay it.
We also didnt think Aguero or Hazard was worth the price quoted and they went to other teams as well.
Click to expand...

IIRC Tottenham rejected a 40m offer from Chelsea, so no he wasn't available for 40m and he wanted to go to Madrid. Also not signing a player isn't an error.
 
His back will be in smithereens within three months after the likes of Shawcross and Ashley Williams kick seven shades of shit out of him every week.
 
JPRouve said:
When City, Chelsea or Arsenal sign a player, it's apparently our fault.
Click to expand...
58811066.jpg
 
arthurka said:
:lol: We can always hope..
Click to expand...

There's enough midfield talent to go around. If Gundogan is the reason for us not getting close to the league our team was probably shit. Don't go wishing injury he'll be a good player to have in this league.
 
He's absolute class. Him and Fernandinho with De Bruyne just ahead of them.

Frightening.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.