Ilkay Gündogan

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@Sphaero
What I wrote was that the information SKY Gemany and Der Westen spread did fit with what I had learned. Therefore, in this incidence, it's fair to say SKY's and Der Westen's reports were correct. Slight but important difference.
Again, it's entirely up to you to dismiss this, I understand skepticism towards insiders - which I BTW haven't claimed to be at all times, just in some cases as in that one. If you fancy the idea it was in Gündogan's remit why the deal with United collapsed, go ahead.
 
Crossie said:
But that's my point. This would be exactly the same situation as United was in last summer: Agreement with the player but not the club.

Granted, I'd expect City to pay what Dortmund wants but we don't know yet. On another note, Gündogan's agent rejected 2-3 days ago reports that a deal with City is agreed so we need to wait until any party involved - Gündogan, BVB, buying club (City or whoever) - make it official.
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To be honest I generally agree City and Dortmund have yet to agree a fee but I do believe Gundogan has in principle agreed to join us - that could be dependent on CL qualification as you suggest. But what an agent publicly states has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, they are always acting in their player's interests. It is impossible at this stage that Gundogan's agent comes out and admits any deal is in place or close, it does not benefit him or his player. Guardiola's agent if you remember denied any deal with City had been done when evidently it had been for some time.
 
Yeah, seems quite likely that he'll go to City and he'll walk into their midfield. I'd prefer to watch him playing for Barca but it'll be interesting to see how he does under Guardiola.
 
BobbyManc said:
To be honest I generally agree City and Dortmund have yet to agree a fee but I do believe Gundogan has in principle agreed to join us - that could be dependent on CL qualification as you suggest. But what an agent publicly states has to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, they are always acting in their player's interests. It is impossible at this stage that Gundogan's agent comes out and admits any deal is in place or close, it does not benefit him or his player. Guardiola's agent if you remember denied any deal with City had been done when evidently it had been for some time.
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That's a fair point although I wouldn't really understand why this would harm anybody to come out with the information if City and Gündogan had agreed a deal. It's as last summer: Either City and BVB agree on a deal or they don't.
 
Crossie said:
That's a fair point although I wouldn't really understand why this would harm anybody to come out with the information if City and Gündogan had agreed a deal. It's as last summer: Either City and BVB agree on a deal or they don't.
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Dortmund are still competing for the title, it would not reflect well on the player if it is revealed he has already decided his move for next season. It would also put pressure on him and attract criticism if his performances dip, plus if nothing is completely agreed then it is best to keep his options open and encourage other clubs to still make proposals, should the City deal collapse for whatever reason. It is simplest for everyone involved if the agent just claims nothing is done, whether that's true or not.
 
BobbyManc said:
Dortmund are still competing for the title,
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On paper we do but not in real life ...
BobbyManc said:
it would not reflect well on the player if it is revealed he has already decided his move for next season.
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I see that quite differently. It's a well-known fact that Gündogan has been seeking a move for years. BVB have a history for doing their transfer business as early as possible. The sooner they know that Ilkay actually and finally departs the better.
BobbyManc said:
It would also put pressure on him and attract criticism if his performances dip,
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He's been and will be critcized either way, whether something is agreed or still open.
BobbyManc said:
plus if nothing is completely agreed then it is best to keep his options open and encourage other clubs to still make proposals, should the City deal collapse for whatever reason. It is simplest for everyone involved if the agent just claims nothing is done, whether that's true or not.
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If the first part is true, it wouldn't fit my personal criteria for 'done deal' so reports are incorrect. I do in fact not understand why Ilkay's agent bothered to comment the rumors in the 1st place.

Anyway, some day, probably not long from now, we will learn which jersey Ilkay will wear next season, and I don't expect it to be a yellow one. :D
 
Crossie said:
On paper we do but not in real life ...

I see that quite differently. It's a well-known fact that Gündogan has been seeking a move for years. BVB have a history for doing their transfer business as early as possible. The sooner they know that Ilkay actually and finally departs the better.

He's been and will be critcized either way, whether something is agreed or still open.

If the first part is true, it wouldn't fit my personal criteria for 'done deal' so reports are incorrect. I do in fact not understand why Ilkay's agent bothered to comment the rumors in the 1st place.

Anyway, some day, probably not long from now, we will learn which jersey Ilkay will wear next season, and I don't expect it to be a yellow one. :D
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Agree to disagree then, I believe it would be detrimental to Gundogan for a decision to be announced now but fair enough if you think otherwise. Moving on, how do you think he'd fit in at City and in English football in general should he move here, also do you think it would suggest Toure's exit or could they potentially play together?
 
BobbyManc said:
Agree to disagree then, I believe it would be detrimental to Gundogan for a decision to be announced now but fair enough if you think otherwise. Moving on, how do you think he'd fit in at City and in English football in general should he move here, also do you think it would suggest Toure's exit or could they potentially play together?
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if pep is in charge at city, there wont be "english" football anymore.
still open if ilkay stays or go to city.
suggest 50/50 now.
 
@BobbyManc
I wouldn't dare to predict Pep's specific plans and therefore i.e. the question whether or not and if so how Pep would see Ilkay and Touré playing along is impossible to answer for me. I share slig's opinion though that Pep won't play 'English' football and Ilkay should be suited to blend with ease into a Pep team. What will be interesting is how he'll cope with the higher physical demand of the EPL due to more games and no winter break. Bar the time he needed to regain form from his back injury where it's perfectly understandable, he had some times during Klopp's spell in which he didn't seem to be fully fit.
Before his recent foot 'injury' (knock) 4 weeks ago he was in good shape though - under Tuchel's strict diet and training regime a player has no choice. :D
 
I can't see Pep working with Toure anyway, that guy is so overrated these days, but aside from that I don't see Gündogan working out as a defensive midfielder, so in a 2 man CM Toure would have to fill that role.
 
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IMO he is perfect for us to partner Schneiderlin in the midfield. But I have the feeling that he will end up at City or Juventus.

If we play 4231, do you think a player like Kante could work with Schneiderlin? Or it should be someone like Kroos?
 
Fer said:
IMO he is perfect for us to partner Schneiderlin in the midfield. But I have the feeling that he will end up at City or Juventus.
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I don't think Ilkay fancies to play for a Serie A team.
 
do.ob said:
I can't see Pep working with Toure anyway, that guy is so overrated these days, but aside from that I don't see Gündogan working out as a defensive midfielder, so in a 2 man CM Toure would have to fill that role.
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Pretty sure pep will not play a 2 man midfield.
 
Adisa said:
Pretty sure pep will not play a 2 man midfield.
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He usually does only play 2 CMs at Bayern. The only constant in our attack this season is the forward pair Müller+Lewandowski. Against stronger teams like for example away against Juve, we started with them and 2 wingers and Vidal + Thiago as the CM pairing, with Vidal dropping into defense. But it's pretty much a 2man midfield in a tough away game against one of the strongest teams in the world.
 
Balu said:
He usually does only play 2 CMs at Bayern. The only constant in our attack this season is the forward pair Müller+Lewandowski. Against stronger teams like for example away against Juve, we started with them and 2 wingers and Vidal + Thiago as the CM pairing, with Vidal dropping into defense. But it's pretty much a 2man midfield in a tough away game against one of the strongest teams in the world.
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He doesn't have a quality 2nd striker here but has class no 10s. Expect him to move back to a e man midfield with de Bruyne + Gundogan + DM setup
 
Varun said:
He doesn't have a quality 2nd striker here but has class no 10s. Expect him to move back to a e man midfield with de Bruyne + Gundogan + DM setup
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Yeah, that's a fair point. I could see him play Sterling as a 2nd forward behind Aguero though. And I wonder how he'll use de Bruyne. I expect them to make it work, but de Bruyne's strength are somewhat contradictory to Pep's prefered type of attackers. De Bruyne prefers to play an insanely direct game, wants to use open space as much and as quickly as possible and isn't a great dribbler or has run a midfield with short passes. It should be interesting how Pep fits him in or how De Bruyne adjusts to Pep's tactics.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, that's a fair point. I could see him play Sterling as a 2nd forward behind Aguero though. And I wonder how he'll use de Bruyne. I expect them to make it work, but de Bruyne's strength are somewhat contradictory to Pep's prefered type of attackers. De Bruyne prefers to play an insanely direct game, wants to use open space as much and as quickly as possible and isn't a great dribbler or has run a midfield with short passes. It should be interesting how Pep fits him in or how De Bruyne adjusts to Pep's tactics.
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Yeah, could be a Di Maria - LVG situation but nowhere as bad because Pep is flexible. Could move him out wide and play Silva as the 10. Either ways, I don't see the front 4 being anything but Aguero, Silva, de Bruyne and sterling which means it's Gundogan + 1 in the CM. That's a fantastic looking side unfortunately :(

City need a huge amount of work in defence so I'm hoping it takes him a while to fix that atleast. See him implementing a very high pressing style to help with that.
 
Varun said:
Yeah, could be a Di Maria - LVG situation but nowhere as bad because Pep is flexible. Could move him out wide and play Silva as the 10. Either ways, I don't see the front 4 being anything but Aguero, Silva, de Bruyne and sterling which means it's Gundogan + 1 in the CM. That's a fantastic looking side unfortunately
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De Bruyne could play deeper, if he's willing to put the work in.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, that's a fair point. I could see him play Sterling as a 2nd forward behind Aguero though. And I wonder how he'll use de Bruyne. I expect them to make it work, but de Bruyne's strength are somewhat contradictory to Pep's prefered type of attackers. De Bruyne prefers to play an insanely direct game, wants to use open space as much and as quickly as possible and isn't a great dribbler or has run a midfield with short passes. It should be interesting how Pep fits him in or how De Bruyne adjusts to Pep's tactics.
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Probably get rid and replace him.
 
NoLogo said:
Silva seems like the more likely partner for Gündogan in a 3 man midfield imo he would fit perfectly into Pep's system in that central role.
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Yeah I agree with that, more likely to move de Bruyne out wide.
 
Pep will play Yaya in front of defense, the role Busquets done at barca and play Gundogan & Silva at central midfield,Bruyne & Sterling at wings.
 
Varun said:
Yeah I agree with that, more likely to move de Bruyne out wide.
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I can't see De Bruyne working on the wing. In a counterattacking system maybe if the game still runs through him, but in a possession based system you need someone who's a way better dribbler or at least has more pace and is a goalscoring threat. De Bruyne will play central in my opinion, just not entirely sure in which role.
 
Maybe as a false 10 (like Fabregas), with Aguero as a wide-forward (like Villa). Not that I think that's a good idea.

Actually, Pep will probably play a back 3 and just shoehorn everyone onto the field.
 
Balu said:
I can't see De Bruyne working on the wing. In a counterattacking system maybe if the game still runs through him, but in a possession based system you need someone who's a way better dribbler or at least has more pace and is a goalscoring threat. De Bruyne will play central in my opinion, just not entirely sure in which role.
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That's fair. It'll be interesting how he incorporates both Silva and him, 1 has to be marginalised a bit.
 
Varun said:
That's fair. It'll be interesting how he incorporates both Silva and him, 1 has to be marginalised a bit.
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Silva will be. Isn't a top player any more and is on the wane.
 
Varun said:
That's fair. It'll be interesting how he incorporates both Silva and him, 1 has to be marginalised a bit.
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I think Silva could play a wide-ish playmaker role similar to how Iniesta played for Barca. But I wouldn't rule it out that Pep chooses an entirely different set-up than anything we've seen from him so far. The Bayern side this season isn't comparable to anything he has tried during his time at Barca either.
 
Gol123 said:
Silva will be. Isn't a top player any more and is on the wane.
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He's still class. As Balu says, he might produce something totally new and have both centralish
Balu said:
I think Silva could play a wide-ish playmaker role similar to how Iniesta played for Barca. But I wouldn't rule it out that Pep chooses an entirely different set-up than anything we've seen from him so far. The Bayern side this season isn't comparable to anything he has tried during his time at Barca either.
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Silva can, he has played that role before anyways.
 
Balu said:
I think Silva could play a wide-ish playmaker role similar to how Iniesta played for Barca. But I wouldn't rule it out that Pep chooses an entirely different set-up than anything we've seen from him so far. The Bayern side this season isn't comparable to anything he has tried during his time at Barca either.
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He is still using a 3331? Because, I remember a Copa del Rey game where he used something like that
 
Varun said:
He's still class. As Balu says, he might produce something totally new and have both centralish

Silva can, he has played that role before anyways.
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Its hard to fit both in really and Silva makes sense as the guy to make way. However, Silva is more suited to Peps system and he may play him until De Bruyne adapts to his way of playing.
 
JPRouve said:
He is still using a 3331? Because, I remember a Copa del Rey game where he used something like that
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I think the use of Lewandowski + Müller as a central forward pair is new for him and the use of two fullbacks who often tuck in and play as CMs is unique in modern football and not comparable to the 3331 he used at Barca, which was quite different, even though there are some similarities of course.
 
Balu said:
I think the use of Lewandowski + Müller as a central forward pair is new for him and the use of two fullbacks who often tuck in and play as CMs is unique in modern football and not comparable to the 3331 he used at Barca, which was quite different, even though there are some similarities of course.
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That's true the players are different and the roles are therefore different. But to me the interesting part and that's why I mentioned it, is that you might have seen a prototype of his future system, but I think that he is going to start with his 433 and adjust the system during the season.
 
Balu said:
Yeah, that's a fair point. I could see him play Sterling as a 2nd forward behind Aguero though. And I wonder how he'll use de Bruyne. I expect them to make it work, but de Bruyne's strength are somewhat contradictory to Pep's prefered type of attackers. De Bruyne prefers to play an insanely direct game, wants to use open space as much and as quickly as possible and isn't a great dribbler or has run a midfield with short passes. It should be interesting how Pep fits him in or how De Bruyne adjusts to Pep's tactics.
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Maybe he could share Götze's fate? Not exactly sold straight up, but a continuous drop in the team hierarchy?
 
still believe that no cl for shitty will leave us chances to extend....
 
He'd be a great addition to their midfield but I've no idea why they don't just pay the £36 million. Didn't they pay somewhere around that for Mangala?
 
I hope Guardiola signs someone else so we can go for Gundogan, he is perfect for us. How much are we going to pay for Renato Sanches?
 
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