Iker Muniain

Pogue Mahone said:
We're still waiting for the last massively hyped 19 year old we signed to surpass Modric as a Premier League midfielder. I admire your certainty that this kid will achieve what Anderson may never.

There's a lot to be said for removing the element of risk by signing players with nothing left to prove.
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Why do you always have to be skeptic?
 
Why do everyone compare him to modric? They aren't playing same position people.
 
I like Pogue and he's usually objective but when talking about transfer targets he always finds a way to compare them with someone already at the club and tone down the excitement. He's such a party spoiler.
 
Amar__ said:
Why do everyone compare him to modric? They aren't playing same position people.
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I don't know, it's today only. I thought maybe we were linked with Modric today but can't find it. There's absolutely no reason to compare them, they're nothing alike and besides who says Modric is a target?
 
peterstorey said:
You don't play 442, you play 4231 and he'd be fine in any of the three AM positions (unlike Modric who's far better playing in CM).
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Yes he'd be fine there, only problem is that we are well stocked in each of those positions and it's not like we have old players there. Nani, rooney, Valencia take up those three positions right now, and they are all in the beginning of their primes. It would make no sense at all to sign him right now, no matter how promising he looks.
 
You can't have too many real class players - worry about how they fit in later.
 
Has he signed a new contract? Not that those matter much these days.
 
peterstorey said:
You can't have too many real class players - worry about how they fit in later.
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True, but I just feel ( as I'm sure many others do as well) that we'd be much better off spending that money on someone like Javi martinez, who is a player we actually need in a position where we don't have many players. Get every position filled with class players in your starting 11 first then go onto having class players on the bench is the way I always looked at it. Build your team for the cup competitions then you slowly work your way to the league. Your lot need a few players to realisticly compete for cups, but I feel your way off the league how you currently are. I could see him going to arsenal for what it's worth, He'd fit in quite nicely there as well I think. A front three of AOC -RVP- muniain would be deadly, although by the time the other two develop into class players I think Van persie will be on the decline.
 
Wasn't at his best tonight but took his goal superbly. I think he'll be at Bilbao for another two or three seasons yet, very talented player.
 
Yeah, seemed to lack presence last night. But his class on the ball was pretty evident. I've only seem him a few times but ability just oozes out of him. I'd be delighted for us to sign is player of his nature but I reckon one of the big 2 in spain are more likely destinations.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Yeah, seemed to lack presence last night. But his class on the ball was pretty evident. I've only seem him a few times but ability just oozes out of him. I'd be delighted for us to sign is player of his nature but I reckon one of the big 2 in spain are more likely destinations.
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He's very composed for just being 19. Seems to be a good finisher in big matches and can play wide or in the middle. We could do far worse than going for him and Martinez.
 
Raoul said:
He's very composed for just being 19. Seems to be a good finisher in big matches and can play wide or in the middle. We could do far worse than going for him and Martinez.
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Yeah, apart from having a lovely burst and pace and great natural technical gifts, he seems extremely intelligent for his age.

I'm not sure how to judge Martinez. Heard so much about him but they keep sticking him in the defense. I know he's defensively strong but isn't he supposed to he a classy passer and good on the ball? Seems a waste of the player I've heard about.
 
Sarni said:
Why do you always have to be skeptic?
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Because the development of young players is so unpredictable. Obviously, some of them will turn out to be the world-beaters everyone tips them to be but a lot won't. Wasn't Sahin supposed to be a world class player by now? Or how about Canales? Jon Obi Mikel hasn't turned out anythinh like the player we thoughy we signed (thank you, Chelsea) Thomas Muller can barely get a game at Bayern and there's even doubts about Ozil fulfilling his potential.

Bearing in mind the money we've already spent on replacing Scholes and the big question mark that remains over Anderson I'd be very wary about taking a similar punt again. Signing someone like Modric is a LOT less of a risk and I don't think our midfield is strong enough to wait another 3-4 years hoping the next Anderson will eventually come good.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Yeah, apart from having a lovely burst and pace and great natural technical gifts, he seems extremely intelligent for his age.

I'm not sure how to judge Martinez. Heard so much about him but they keep sticking him in the defense. I know he's defensively strong but isn't he supposed to he a classy passer and good on the ball? Seems a waste of the player I've heard about.
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Which is exactly why they play him as a CB.

He can do the defensive job well, but when they in posession he does not panic with the ball and hoof it, he carefully picks out a pass and makes sure posession is not waisted.

He played CDM easy, and has only just started playing as a CB this year, but already looks very comfortable.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because the development of young players is so unpredictable. Obviously, some of them will turn out to be the world-beaters everyone tips them to be but a lot won't. Wasn't Sahin supposed to be a world class player by now? Or how about Canales? Jon Obi Mikel hasn't turned out anythinh like the player we thoughy we signed (thank you, Chelsea) Thomas Muller can barely get a game at Bayern and there's even doubts about Ozil fulfilling his potential.

Bearing in mind the money we've already spent on replacing Scholes and the big question mark that remains over Anderson I'd be very wary about taking a similar punt again. Signing someone like Modric is a LOT less of a risk and I don't think our midfield is strong enough to wait another 3-4 years hoping the next Anderson will eventually come good.
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It is the united way to take punts on young players so I wouldn't be so cynical when it comes to young players. It's part of our philosophy and it works. The likes of sahin and co deserve the same patience from their clubs and us (in our distant judgement) as we give our own young players.

But your point is relevant with regards to central midfield. We've got a few prospects already and they'll take their time to fulfill their potential. Carrick is the only one at his prime age. It just makes sense to balance it out with one more who can come in and take control fairly quickly without necessarily being close to 30.

However, munain isn't even that sort of player. From what I've seen he's a pure attacking midfielder. I'd love for us to get someone like him but it has no bearing on central midfield. He doesn't look like he can play there. Intact he looks like someone whose too.gifted in an attacking sense to be a central midfielder or even part of a midfields trio.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because the development of young players is so unpredictable. Obviously, some of them will turn out to be the world-beaters everyone tips them to be but a lot won't. Wasn't Sahin supposed to be a world class player by now? Or how about Canales? Jon Obi Mikel hasn't turned out anythinh like the player we thoughy we signed (thank you, Chelsea) Thomas Muller can barely get a game at Bayern and there's even doubts about Ozil fulfilling his potential.

Bearing in mind the money we've already spent on replacing Scholes and the big question mark that remains over Anderson I'd be very wary about taking a similar punt again. Signing someone like Modric is a LOT less of a risk and I don't think our midfield is strong enough to wait another 3-4 years hoping the next Anderson will eventually come good.
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Agree with your point but where'd you hear that?! He's started 35 games so far, in the last two seasons he started 44 and 46 which I imagine he'll get quite close to and he's started 6 of the last 9.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because the development of young players is so unpredictable. Obviously, some of them will turn out to be the world-beaters everyone tips them to be but a lot won't. Wasn't Sahin supposed to be a world class player by now? Or how about Canales? Jon Obi Mikel hasn't turned out anythinh like the player we thoughy we signed (thank you, Chelsea) Thomas Muller can barely get a game at Bayern and there's even doubts about Ozil fulfilling his potential.
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While your general point is valid, some of your examples are a little weird. Thomas 'can barely get a game at Bayern' Müller has made 141 appearances for Bayern in the last three seasons (41 so far this season). Sahin is already a world class player by my definition of 'world class'. Just because he has struggled with injuries this season doesn't erase the fact that he was the Bundesliga Player of the Year last season. And I don't see the doubts about Özil fulfilling his potential, unless you are disappointed that he, at 23 years old, is only one of the top 20 players in the world. I suppose if people bought into that 'new Zidane' nonsense then they could be disappointed with where he is at but I don't really see how 20+ assists in each of his last four seasons is anything but extremely good.
 
Adam-Utd said:
Which is exactly why they play him as a CB.

He can do the defensive job well, but when they in posession he does not panic with the ball and hoof it, he carefully picks out a pass and makes sure posession is not waisted.

He played CDM easy, and has only just started playing as a CB this year, but already looks very comfortable.
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On account of Bielsa...Pep has done similar with DMs like Mascherano, Busquets & Yaya...In the future, centerbacks are not going to just be defenders
 
Brwned said:
Agree with your point but where'd you hear that?! He's started 35 games so far, in the last two seasons he started 44 and 46 which I imagine he'll get quite close to and he's started 6 of the last 9.
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I don't watch the BundesLiga so that comment is based entirely on a recent CL game when he came of the bench, played poorly and the co-commentator said that was the kind of season he's having. Sounds like I misinterpreted what he said!
 
I can see Pep going for Martinez as a potential replacement for Puyol. He could play a utility role in the interim, switching between DM and CB as needed.
 
letranger0 said:
While your general point is valid, some of your examples are a little weird. Thomas 'can barely get a game at Bayern' Müller has made 141 appearances for Bayern in the last three seasons (41 so far this season). Sahin is already a world class player by my definition of 'world class'. Just because he has struggled with injuries this season doesn't erase the fact that he was the Bundesliga Player of the Year last season. And I don't see the doubts about Özil fulfilling his potential, unless you are disappointed that he, at 23 years old, is only one of the top 20 players in the world. I suppose if people bought into that 'new Zidane' nonsense then they could be disappointed with where he is at but I don't really see how 20+ assists in each of his last four seasons is anything but extremely good.
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I don't play Football Manager, nor do I watch any football other than PL/CL games, so I don't have the encyclopaedic knowledge of the careers of teenage footballers throughout Europe that some of ye have.

Hence, I may not have had the best examples at the tip of my tongue when I was making my point. All those players I mentioned, though, are apparently (not my own opinion, just what I've heard) having problematic seasons, for various different reasons. Which is why I thought they would be good, high-profile examples of footballers who don't always progress in line with the (often wildly unrealistic) expectations heaped on them at a young age.

To be honest, I should have stuck with Anderson as by far the most pertinent and relevant example but I seem to be constantly sticking the boot into him so wanted to try and highlight that he's not an isolated case!
 
Raoul said:
I can see Pep going for Martinez as a potential replacement for Puyol. He could play a utility role in the interim, switching between DM and CB as needed.
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He's been mentioned in the past, true...He was never high on my list for CB but seeing how Bielsa has benefitted with him playing there, I'm starting to think differently perhaps

Should be interesting to see what happens with Athletic going forward, a lot of potential to be a bigger club in Europe
 
FCBarca said:
He's been mentioned in the past, true...He was never high on my list for CB but seeing how Bielsa has benefitted with him playing there, I'm starting to think differently perhaps

Should be interesting to see what happens with Athletic going forward, a lot of potential to be a bigger club in Europe
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Is that even possible with the rules regarding distribution of television revenue in La Liga? Someone here said the other day that the 20th team in the premier league earns more than the 3rd placed La Liga team which is frankly appalling.
 
Things will be changing, just a question of how long it will take for there to be enough inertia for it to matter to teams with far less resources than a solvent club like Athletic
 
FCBarca said:
On account of Bielsa...Pep has done similar with DMs like Mascherano, Busquets & Yaya...In the future, centerbacks are not going to just be defenders
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Agree with this post, we are seeing the top clubs expecting more and more from their central defenders on the ball. Mascherano is an excellent example at Barcelona, even at United we have seen Smalling/Jones played at full back this season giving them more chance to get forward with the ball. We have already seen benefits with them passing the ball out of defence and bringing the ball into midfield themselves, Evans has always been pretty good on the ball and he's stepped it up again this season.

Other such examples have been Chelsea sticking with David Luiz throughout some terrible form mainly because of his ability on the ball, Piqué at Barcelona, Varane at Real and obviously Martinez at Bilbao. It is only going to make for better football as we see defenders be more and more accomplished with the ball at their feet.
 
In my opinion regarding Anderson, I think his case is one of being played out position for so long (DM initially then CM, rather than the Central attacking midfielder he was at Porto where he had freedom to roam) and the fact that injuries may have taken a toll on the lad.

The last couple of injuries especially weren't that great, and lets admit, the boy HAS shown glimpses of his ability when he gets on that good run. Its just that whenever he does have that run, he ends up getting injured (knee) a la Rooney.
 
Q80 said:
In my opinion regarding Anderson, I think his case is one of being played out position for so long (DM initially then CM, rather than the Central attacking midfielder he was at Porto where he had freedom to roam) and the fact that injuries may have taken a toll on the lad.

The last couple of injuries especially weren't that great, and lets admit, the boy HAS shown glimpses of his ability when he gets on that good run. Its just that whenever he does have that run, he ends up getting injured (knee) a la Rooney.
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He doesn't provide enough end product to be played as an attacking midfielder, though. feck knows why he hasn't worked hard to improve his shooting for one. His attributes, IMO, are one of an all round box to box central midfielder. He's got everything in his locker to be brilliant one. He was actually improving a fair bit. Last season he was really very good for us at home but struggled away (as did the whole team). But yeah, regular injuries haven't helped. His situation in terms of that is nothing like Rooney's, who generally gets injured for very short periods (barring that one injury before the WC).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Because the development of young players is so unpredictable. Obviously, some of them will turn out to be the world-beaters everyone tips them to be but a lot won't. Wasn't Sahin supposed to be a world class player by now? Or how about Canales? Jon Obi Mikel hasn't turned out anythinh like the player we thoughy we signed (thank you, Chelsea) Thomas Muller can barely get a game at Bayern and there's even doubts about Ozil fulfilling his potential.

Bearing in mind the money we've already spent on replacing Scholes and the big question mark that remains over Anderson I'd be very wary about taking a similar punt again. Signing someone like Modric is a LOT less of a risk and I don't think our midfield is strong enough to wait another 3-4 years hoping the next Anderson will eventually come good.
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That's extremely harsh on Sahin who has been out for a long period of time at the start of season and still has plenty of time to come good. As for Canales he's been doing well for Valencia and I think he'll get a move to a bigger club at one point much like Silva and Mata did. That's if Valencia buy him of course because there's also a possibility that he'll come back to Madrid. And Muller has played a lot for Bayern.
 
JB7 said:
Agree with this post, we are seeing the top clubs expecting more and more from their central defenders on the ball. Mascherano is an excellent example at Barcelona, even at United we have seen Smalling/Jones played at full back this season giving them more chance to get forward with the ball. We have already seen benefits with them passing the ball out of defence and bringing the ball into midfield themselves, Evans has always been pretty good on the ball and he's stepped it up again this season.

Other such examples have been Chelsea sticking with David Luiz throughout some terrible form mainly because of his ability on the ball, Piqué at Barcelona, Varane at Real and obviously Martinez at Bilbao. It is only going to make for better football as we see defenders be more and more accomplished with the ball at their feet.
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Yeah, I wonder what they'll call this evolutionary stage in football...There was total football but now even the central defenders will have to be able to push the ball up the pitch and attack with regularity
 
letranger0 said:
While your general point is valid, some of your examples are a little weird. Thomas 'can barely get a game at Bayern' Müller has made 141 appearances for Bayern in the last three seasons (41 so far this season). Sahin is already a world class player by my definition of 'world class'. Just because he has struggled with injuries this season doesn't erase the fact that he was the Bundesliga Player of the Year last season. And I don't see the doubts about Özil fulfilling his potential, unless you are disappointed that he, at 23 years old, is only one of the top 20 players in the world. I suppose if people bought into that 'new Zidane' nonsense then they could be disappointed with where he is at but I don't really see how 20+ assists in each of his last four seasons is anything but extremely good.
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He does have an aversion to scoring goals.
 
Amar__ said:
Why do everyone compare him to modric? They aren't playing same position people.
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Actually they are. Modric has been playing wide left (and wide right depending on if Bale switches) for the past few months.

But they are still different players
 
FCBarca said:
I wondered who might bring him up...True, but as we've seen, he was an anomaly
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I'm not sure that's entirely true. Ajax's defensive quartet of Blankenburg, Hulshof, Suurbier and Krol (and Vasovic previously I suppose) were better ball-players than most top-level midfielders nowadays and alongside Beckenbauer you had Breitner who you could say the same about and Schwarzenbeck loved to get forward. Then there was Galvan and Passarella in the Argentine defence and these were all players that played within the space of 4 years or so...and they're only the ones I've seen, I'm sure there were more ball-playing defenders at other top clubs. Regardless, I do agree that there's a tactical trend to have more ball-playing defenders than possibly ever before but I do find it a little amusing how quick people are to proclaim the latest trend is this new, brilliant evolution in football. I think it's a bit early.
 
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